TheRealMcCagh Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Is Russ' belligerence/arrogance a good reason? Going off to kill Horus because he thinks he is the only one who can sounds pretty Russ-ish to me. It would fit the character pretty well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 There might be a little confusion over what constitutes a 'good' reason - there's strategically, and then there's a good reason in terms of what suits his character. Both are valid. I definitely think him going after Horus is appropriate in-universe, but given that he didn't know if he could kill Horus pre-Molech anyway, and he knows that Horus has transformed into super bald angry daemon jesus, he needs a valid reason to believe he can do it, otherwise he looks like an idiot. That's what Warsmith Kroeger is referring to by 'good' reason. I'm sure Haley will deliver. Calas Typhon and Sandlemad 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Agreed. Sometime Black Library’s “good reasons” are not actually good choices. Calas Typhon 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 To me, Russ' plan is stupid (but perhaps a good example of character-induced stupidity) in light of all the info currently available. Wolfbane might provide some additional info rendering his plan less stupid. I originally thought that Russ was ignorant of Molech...but that doesn't seem the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 I wonder if even killing Horus is the goal... Maybe just weakening Horus would be enough for Russ. Horus has a rebellion of monsters and madmen, held together by his charisma and strength. If Horus were to suffer a big enough loss than maybe the already present cracks could crumble...and halting the advance to Terra may be enough for Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taliesin Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) There's so many reasons to look forward to this novel. One of them is seeing Horus Heresy Space Wolves at work in a pivotal battle. There is so much that could happen in this book, that makes it so exciting. I think Haley will certainly provide solid motivation for why Leman Russ does what he does, and at the same time you can already imagine that it will be a divisive topic for fans who've read the book. One of the questions will be whether it would have been better strategically for the current HH era army ( forces level at the time just before the Siege of Terra, don't know the numbers) to have remained on Terra and aid the defense as orchestrated by Rogal Dorn. Or, is this an attempt that could actually have succeeded and thus decapitate chaos forces? I am sure that there is no motivation that Haley can think of that will not have a significant amount of people still maintain that it would have been best for Russ to remain on Terra. Edited December 14, 2017 by Taliesin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 I guess we'll see In hindsight, Russ' plan resulted in catastrophe. But that's in hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Well we don't know what was achieved if anything is. He could have caused the opening in Horus armor, or he could have done nothing. Until we read the story we won't know if the losses were worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) If he did that, that just cheapens Sanguinius plot. Russ took a gamble and it failed. Maybe he could take out a non roided up Horus. Maybe that was his gamble. Suddenly the trap turns on the Hunter. Edited December 14, 2017 by Sete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbero666 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Maybe Russ set something aboard the Vengeful Spirit that disrupts the void shields and allows the Emperor, Sanguinius and Dorn to board the ship during the Siege of Terra. Right now is the logical approach without taking the "opening in Horus armor" from Sanguinius and without making Russ look stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSwordmaster Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Paging FW to make some Luperci models! Is that what those Marines are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuEru Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 If he did that, that just cheapens Sanguinius plot. Russ took a gamble and it failed. Maybe he could take out a non roided up Horus. Maybe that was his gamble. Suddenly the trap turns on the Hunter. I think that's part of it. Russ and Horus - normally - probably could sparr or duell for hours or even days - probably even did so in the early years, to test their skills among equals. So he knows in a duell, under the right circumstances, with the right strategy, distraction efforts and surprise effect he could take him down. By now he knows Horus is far beyond his power-level. He probably knows/assumes that a simple duel won't cut it. There needs to be a reason for why he has to leave Terra for Fenris. The Cover shows him with the Spear of Russ. The Emperor specifically made it for him. It IS frickin' gold all over from tip to bottom end. Russ doesn't like it, due to his dream. But he also knows that if ANY weapon in his arsenal can hurt Horus, it's the spear. So he has to go grab that, before he can go on a hunt. And yes, I agree, maybe his whole goal is to play 'his part', as he perceives it to be. Maybe it's just meant to buy just a bit more time - and sow discomfort and unrest among the Traitors, if he can show that Horus is NOT perfect. (...maybe that's why the Siege of Terra is just a loosely combined effort of Traitor Forces en masse, with the Legions just doing their thing thwy like best and the Primarchs going for their personal nemesises!?) The novel will be quite interesting to read. But it was probably a difficult task to write. Russ needs a good reason to leave Terra - so he needs to look competent in his task. There needs to be the actual chance for him to win/finish his task (whatever it'll be). But Horus needs to be portrayed competent and incredibly mighty aswell - else it wouldn't make sense for hin to best Sanguinius and the Emperor. AND Russ needs to survive/retreat/be saved without a deus-ex-machina cop-out or a moment in which Horus becomes a mustache twirling villain and goes "Iqill let you live... for now! So you can suffer under the consequences of your own decision, as you watch everything fall to pieces! Bwahahaha!" Probably one of the hardest story parts in the HH to get 'right' - only topped by whatever will happen on the Vengeful Spirit at "the end" Huggtand, Kelborn, Calas Typhon and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) So this is where things are going as of this moment. Russ and Rogal Dorn start getting salty with eachother, Russ sends Loken off to play about on the Vengeful Spirit. Russ leaves Terra with a desire to take the fight to Horus, going over how he comes across in Vengeful Spirit. He takes with him the spear, which was in his possession from before his time on Terra if the background of the spear is correct and has not been changed around. The spear being a weapon given to him by the emperor but used as a tool that Wolf Lords would swear loyalty on as addressed by the 13th company. Russ hunts down Horus, manages to sneak aboard the VS and get into combat with Horus. Russ gets mauled and saved by something leading him to be taken away . Space Wolves get to Yarant III after being hounded by Abaddon and end up either having their ship destroyed and having to land on the surface, or landing there to make a last stand. Corax turns up and saves the day calls for everyone to run away. Leman Russ is in a deep coma. ????? Siege of Terra. Edited December 14, 2017 by Warsmith Kroeger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Add to that: Russ and the Lion meet and fight their way to Terra, are late, the Emperor is quasi-dead and Russ gets stabbed into another coma by the Lion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Paging FW to make some Luperci models! Is that what those Marines are? Yep! ShadowSwordmaster 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Add to that: Russ and the Lion meet and fight their way to Terra, are late, the Emperor is quasi-dead and Russ gets stabbed into another coma by the Lion. two comas in a row? release the "failman russ" memes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSwordmaster Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Paging FW to make some Luperci models! Is that what those Marines are? Yep! Sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZebraM Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Have any of the loyalist primarchs seen Horus since he turned traitor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) Ferrus Manus head. (Too soon?) Edited December 16, 2017 by Sete DarkChaplain, Jarl Kjaran Coldheart and ZebraM 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Yes, I thought it was well-established that the SW view themselves as literally a breed apart from (and superior to) other legions. Alaxxes badly shakes up this view, but I have no doubt they've recovered most of their pride by the time they charge off to confront the SoH I think all of the legions think they're superior to the other ones. Well maybe not the word bearers, and some of the weird terran reinforcements like the captain from the scars books. I think its just part of warrior culture, I don't think any general would try to lead soldiers into battle with a "to be frank they're better than us" pep talk. Does anyone else get the feeling the 'Emperor's Executioner' title is meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but Leman Russ just doesn't get the joke? It would be like calling an overzealous, but ultimately inept, commander 'Captain America.' Pretty sure he came up with it so no. I know Guilliman doesn't know where the title comes from, and he would if it was something even half way official. Heck one of the major themes of the character is that he is pretending to be a barbarian so he probably wants people to view it that way. My bet on the actual book though is that the cover will be a red herring. I don't think we'll see Russ vs. Horus duel at this stage of the HH. My bet is a fight when they're first meeting each other, and then Russ trying to come up with a plan that leads directly into Yarant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascanius Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 The Wolf King shook his head. ‘I’m not built for waiting, Sigillite. I don’t fight well from behind stone, waiting for the enemy to try and dig me out. I’m the executioner, and the executioner lands the first blow, a killing strike that ends dispute before it begins.’ I mean, akshuhly the executioner waits for the target to be caught, imprisoned, tried, sentenced, and condemned before carrying out the sentence. Russ's attitude is more Dog the Bounty Hunter than anything . . . mc warhammer, Marshal Loss and Nazguire 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Dog the Bounty Hunter...hahahahahaha That is a great analogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aenar Deathclaws Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 From a guy who was at the black library weekender, we know that Russ is looking for a way to weaken Horus. We'll just have to wait a bit more than a month to get our hands on this book and only then we'll be able to criticize it. I'll be at the Horus heresy weekender to buy this book and I'll be able to give you my opinion even if I'm certainly biased as a SW fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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