NTaW Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Oh snap. Are bolter/chainsword DC still a thing? It came into existence with the Index would hate for it to stay there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 I can't help but feel "meh" over it by all. Like I am still getting the codex but I'm just not excited. What are your concerns, buddy? Is this a legit question or are you trying to make it seem like I am being a douche for not gushing over the codex? Do you know the BA forum to be that sort of place? Of course its a legitimate question. I'd like to hear your concerns and thoughts. TheHarrower and WarriorFish 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Anyone taking the Chaplain Dread from Forgeworld? :-D Has he come down in points? If you take dual CC weapon, yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 What are your concerns, buddy? Is this a legit question or are you trying to make it seem like I am being a douche for not gushing over the codex? Do you know the BA forum to be that sort of place? Of course its a legitimate question. I'd like to hear your concerns and thoughts. Well, yeah its been that sort of place for me this past year. I almost actually left B&C over it. Anyway, back to the point. Here is what I am seeing. The strats, the changes in points are pushing everything over to being mostly about the 1st turn charges. Okay, that's good but an army this does not make. So you'll end up seeing people jump in on that gimmick the most while other ways to play fall to the way side. As much as I like that they gave a strat for Archangels, the potential is wasted by not having anything more to help that type of army. For clarity, we are talking about Termies, Sternguard and Vanguard Vets ala Angel's blade. Having not spent time looking at Dante/Sanguinor was also a bad move as I thought that would be a great alternate HQ roster for people to consider other than DC swarms. Then there is the Dread armies. Huge potential lost and so you're mostly going to just see flybrarian dread rather than the wide array of Furioso, DC and Contemptor dreads that could be interesting. Again, like archangel lists you have a token nod in a strat for them but otherwise it just isn't as tasty as doubling up on DC/1st turn assault. Then there is the primaris stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love the look of primaris. I have the DI set waiting for a future project and I plan to buy a few extra units. But honestly they don't really benefit much from any traits or strats here. It's nice having a +1 wound when charging but you're still shooty marines inherently. It just seems like there isn't much here that is interesting to build an army with. Especially since there are no real melee focused units aside from Reivers. It's just kind of bland to me is all. I do intend to get the book since I basically spent half the year not playing and would like to get back into it. It's just going to be terribly boring when I come in and everyone is jumping onto the 1st turn assault bandwidth with their "Blue Angels" or "These-are-totally-not-Black-Templar Angels" in their imperial soup armies using the same characters in the detachment every time. But that's just me. Dolchiate Remembrancer, Omega-soul and Chaplain Gunzhard 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 in relation to strats and primaris. Upon Wings of Fire is going to be very good for our inceptors - it means we can get them exactly where we want for the best shooting. Descent of Angels is also decent for Inceptors, everyone always assumes they're pure shooty, but they do have potential for mortal wounds if they charge, and thanks to our easier chance to wound and the ability to jump away and shoot next turn, it feels like charcing with them isn't wasted either, they're reasonably resilient and have multiple attacks per model. * The Lucifer Engine stratagem would be good for repulsors to get them up the field with their contents quicker. Aggressors are pretty dangerous in melee, the red thirst means they're a bigger threat to tougher enemies than before, the unleash rage power will be good on them too, not sure on other stratagems, maybe the fight twice one. The banner of sacrifice is good on just about any primaris stuff, because primaris have 2 wounds in the first place, so you'll get more mileage out of it. Reivers wounding easier actually helps with one of their main issues - ability to hurt stuff. Throw a priest near them (again, it SUCKS it cannot be a primaris one) and they can actually threaten vehicles and tougher monsters. I'm sure there will be other things to benefit primaris too. I do agree that it sucks about Dante, Sanguinor seems fine honestly. Not sure what the issue with dreads are? An All dread army will still have all the other kinds - which all got cheaper. *I'd have loved for Descent of Angels to work with grav chuts honestly, kind of feel it should have. Omega-soul, Anamnesis and Silas7 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 in relation to strats and primaris. Upon Wings of Fire is going to be very good for our inceptors - it means we can get them exactly where we want for the best shooting. Descent of Angels is also decent for Inceptors, everyone always assumes they're pure shooty, but they do have potential for mortal wounds if they charge, and thanks to our easier chance to wound and the ability to jump away and shoot next turn, it feels like charcing with them isn't wasted either, they're reasonably resilient and have multiple attacks per model. * The Lucifer Engine stratagem would be good for repulsors to get them up the field with their contents quicker. Aggressors are pretty dangerous in melee, the red thirst means they're a bigger threat to tougher enemies than before, the unleash rage power will be good on them too, not sure on other stratagems, maybe the fight twice one. The banner of sacrifice is good on just about any primaris stuff, because primaris have 2 wounds in the first place, so you'll get more mileage out of it. Reivers wounding easier actually helps with one of their main issues - ability to hurt stuff. Throw a priest near them (again, it SUCKS it cannot be a primaris one) and they can actually threaten vehicles and tougher monsters. I'm sure there will be other things to benefit primaris too. I do agree that it sucks about Dante, Sanguinor seems fine honestly. Not sure what the issue with dreads are? An All dread army will still have all the other kinds - which all got cheaper. *I'd have loved for Descent of Angels to work with grav chuts honestly, kind of feel it should have. My experience with playing T'au says that charging with a shooty and decently durable unit with FLY keyword is basically almost a good idea unless there's a choppy unit nearby (or even the target in question) where you obviously want to keep your distance. ^^ Primaris lists won't be able to throw those awesome turn 1 balls of death at the enemys lines and they have problems delivering the standard to the frontline without a Repulsor (seriously, we need Primaris characters with Jump Packs real bad imo) but they still benefit a lot from many things in the Codex. Agreed on your whole post, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 Thanks jamesI for all the info. If I may add a couple of questions to the constant tirade you are facing: 1. Death company loadouts (mine all have bolters still) looks like chainswords/melee and various pistols are better now - are bolters a viable option at all or shall I start removing arms? 2. Are any of he following present as options or are all index only now: sang. Novitiate with jp, champion with jp, ancient with jp, techmarine with jp. I think you stated earlier in the thread that priests and comp veterans are foot only now as expected. 1. Nothing wrong with Bolter builds. Bolter and chainsword is probably a really good build for DC. 2. none of those units have Jump Packs available in the codex. NTaW 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Wait so they took everything unique about our characters from the index and gutted them for the codex? I'm fully fine with them being like "Oh well the bike characters don't have models." as that is a serious conversion... But a Jump Pack?! JEEEEZ. Chaplain Gunzhard and vahouth 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 No model = no entry. You can still use them through the index. What's the problem? You would think the constant histrionics over every little thing would get tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 I think the problem is the fear that we won't be able to use the Index Datasheets forever so that some day those models won't be legal anymore. A very valid fear imo. vahouth 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxus Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 It would be naive to think that they don't have plans to phase out models that they don't provide rules for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 It would be naive to think that they don't have plans to phase out models that they don't provide rules for. My rule of thumb is that I'll use my existing models that are conversions such as a JP Sang Priest, but I won't make any more going forward because I see a time in two or three years when the Primaris range is more complete that those a phased out. By that time I would expect us to have replacement units for those rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 I get it, and I'm absolutely fine with most of the stuff they've not ported over to the codex. But the jump pack thing was a real distinction for us that they made a point of in the index, so it feels odd for them to get rid of it now. GW even still sells seperate jump packs too......... Chaplain Gunzhard and vahouth 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) It's especially annoying since without Jump Pack they'd have to drive up the board to bring their auras to the rest of our deep striking units. But yeah I'll handle it like Bonzi. Even more to the extreme actually since I'm going all out on the Primaris line now. Speaking with my wallet is one thing but I don't believe even for a second that GW would step back from their Primaris plans unless there's a worldwide boycott for Primaris (so chances are basically 0). So the only option we really have is to enjoy what we have now and prepare for the future with Primaris. Edited December 3, 2017 by sfPanzer Silverson 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 That is a fair point I haven't considered. However, it is not currently an issue, and given how thematic it is to the Chapter, I can see them making some jump pack characters when the line gets revamped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) All I know is that I won't ever try to convert a model. Why bother? I'll only ever build models as they are in their box. BTW, can you confirm JamesI if our assault marines still have access to meltaguns and flamers? Or is it only an Index option as well? Edited December 3, 2017 by vahouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 All I know is that I won't ever try to convert a model. Why bother? Because it's fun and you'll end up having a unique model nobody else has. Converting doesn't automatically mean giving them options they don't have in the Codex. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 True, but its not worth giving them an option they don't have on their sprue anymore. By all means change up the pose, or kitbash across a sword to replace another sword, but don't convert up adding a power mace to a death company arm, or anyhting else in the list but not in the box, unless you do it with the risk in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonmole Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Sorry if someone asked this already, if they have I missed it. Is the death company data sheet in the codex the same, from the perspective of taking a bolt gun & a chainsword? Honestly I’m hoping they changed this... I don’t think the bolt pistol has any advantage at all really, and I actually don’t want to feel obligated to start snipping my models to change out their pistols.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Oh yes... I also wish to know if our assault squads can still take meltaguns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Having it now sunk in that DA Primaris sergeants will get power sword access just........ COME. ON. Chaplain Gunzhard 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 TheY can take plasma and melterguns.@ jorre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 All I know is that I won't ever try to convert a model. Why bother? I'll only ever build models as they are in their box. BTW, can you confirm JamesI if our assault marines still have access to meltaguns and flamers? Or is it only an Index option as well? Assault marines have access to flamers, plasmaguns, meltaguns and the pistol versions. Sorry if someone asked this already, if they have I missed it. Is the death company data sheet in the codex the same, from the perspective of taking a bolt gun & a chainsword? Honestly I’m hoping they changed this... I don’t think the bolt pistol has any advantage at all really, and I actually don’t want to feel obligated to start snipping my models to change out their pistols.. Bolter and Chainsword is still legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminatorAM Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Big thanks to JamesI for keeping our collective impatience at bay ;) If you're not tired of answering questions yet, can you confirm if land raiders can still take jump pack-equiped infantry? Lucifer engines + land raider with jump DC inside sounds too fun. They would be fast enough to rush almost anything by turn 2, kill it, then redeploy on turn 3 with Upon Wings of Fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 Land Raiders can still take Jump Infantry. Each counts as 2 models. terminatorAM and Jorre 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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