Fabius Bile series: is it any good?

[Warpmiss]

Then I'm not a fan of that modern trend. Specially because it is maddening to listen to.

 

Some examples from random pages of the first part with no spoilers of the plot. I’ve removed the small descriptions or narration of their movements/etc in some places.

 

 

‘Chort vanished a month ago, on some errand or other for the Chief Apothecary. Malpertus… died on Korazin,’ Arrian said.

 

 

 

‘Died?’ Oleander said. […]

 

 

 

‘We were all very sad,’ Arrian said, sounding anything but. ‘Especially Saqqara.’

 

 

 

A longer one:

 

 

 

‘They’ve been quiet, since you left,’ Arrian said.

 

 

 

‘I was the only one who appreciated them,’ Oleander said.

 

 

 

‘We are here to learn the secrets of life, not listen to the complaints of the dead, the World Eater said. ‘You might have retreated into the past, but the rest of us have always ever moved forward.’

 

 

 

Oleander laughed. ‘There is no “us” here. Only him. The rest of us are nothing more than raw materials yet to be rendered down.’ He looked at Arrian. ‘What has he taught you since I left, Arrian? What secrets have you learned?’

 

 

 

‘None I shall share with you, ‘Arrian said.[…] ‘Though I’d be happy to show you if you wish.’

 

 

 

‘Oleander shook his head. ‘Still loyal to a madman, after all this years.’ He looked back at the mural. ‘I wonder if that’s why he keeps you around. For a surgeon, you make a wonderful butcher, […]’

 

Arrian said nothing. […] ‘Oh the beast I could make of you brother,’ he said softly. ‘What beautiful horrors you would wreak then.’

 

 

 

‘No, brother. Never a beast. Never that,’ Arrian said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

‘I did not give you permission to fall, Oleander,’ Bile said.

 

 

 

‘And I would not fall without your permission, master’ Oleander said, steadying himself. […] ‘Can he hold them back?’

 

 

 

‘You’ve asked that before. He can’ Bile said. ‘It is one of the reasons I keep him alive’

 

 

 

Another longer convo:

 

 

 

Oleander inhaled and sighed rapturously, ‘I do love going to market,’ he said. […]

 

 

 

‘We are not here to indulge in your desires,’ Saqqara said, pulling his hood tightly about his face as he sidestepped an undulating Sslyth. ‘We are here to hunt.’

 

 

 

‘Indeed,’ Oleander said. ‘And I think I see a trace of our quarry.’ […]

 

 

 

‘Where?’ Saqqara said, looking around. ‘I see no eldar.’

 

 

 

‘Who said anything about eldar?’ Oleander moved away from the main flow of traffic, heading towards the cul-de-sac. […]

 

 

 

‘What is that stink?’ the Word Bearer muttered. ‘It smells like rancid milk and.. and..’

 

 

 

‘Mint,’ Oleander said. […]

 

 

 

‘It stinks,’ Saqqara insisted. ‘Worse than any servant of Nurgle.’

 

 

 

‘Well, that’s just hyperbole. I- ah. No sudden movements brother. They are a twitchy lot.’ Oleander said softly. [..]

 

 

 

‘Loxatlt,’ Saqqara said. His voice thick with revulsion. […]

 

 

 

‘Quietly now,’ Oleander said. […]

 

 

 

‘Hello, Phot,’ Oleander said. ‘Is that a new scar?’

 

 

 

 

Out of all of that in only a couple of lines was something different from ‘said’ used.

 

 

 

[Khornflakes]

haha - yeah now that you pointed it out it does stand out! Oleander seems to get the brunt of that treatment as well...

 

it could be because i read at speed, so miss details like that.

[Urauloth]

The advice to use "said" instead of anything more colourful largely stems from the fact that most people don't notice it. "Said" is so unobtrusive that most of us simply filter it out when reading dialogue. This is absolutely not true of listening to someone else read dialogue, though, so if it's grating, it's almost certainly because of a fundamental difference in the format.

 

This kind of thing is actually one reason I don't like audiobooks - I think it was ADB who was talking recently about them involving a barrier between the author and the audience, and that's a big stumbling block for me in terms of immersion. Obviously this is extremely subjective though, or the format wouldn't be as popular as it is.

 

Another reason, I think, for the current trend is that there's a sort of backlash against the more florid and purple prose that was beginning to develop as a trend in speculative fiction - there's a few articles article on the subject of "said-bookisms" which are all pretty interesting reads.

[Warpmiss]

It is indeed easier to overlook the continued used of 'said' while just reading. I've been reading some more of part II and I didn't notice it so much. With the audiobook it's unavoidable because the person reading has to pause before saying 'X said'. Then take into account that they have to do this repeatedly when reading a conversation.

[Sandlemad]

It's definitely one of those things that you can't stop searching for when you hear about it... I don't think it's that present in Clonelord. There are a lot more terms like hissed, growled, rumbled, chuckled and so on, at least in the later sections.

 

One thing I'm surprised folks on B&C and elsewhere haven't pounced on is the reference to

one of the lost primarchs. It's not major but Alkenex recalls Fulgrim telling him that one of his lost brothers led an expedition to the Ymga Monolith and didn't speak about whatever he found. There's a nicely metafictional line about the monolith being a 'name without a story'. It's up on lexicanum now too, along with the Gathering Storm background that sadly ruins some of its mystery.

 

That's two details on the lost primarchs in Reynolds' recent EC books. Kinda surprised this level of detail is allowed by BL, I thought this was one of the things writers were asked to pull back from.

[godking]

Finished clonelord yesterday.

 

Loved it.

 

Fabius is a character you love too hate but he does have reasons for behaving as he does.

 

At this point i think you can make a legitimate argument that Fabius has surpassed the Emperor given what he has been able too achieve with not close too the resources that the Emperor had. 

[Warpmiss]

Just finished Primogenitor!

 

Aside from my gripe with the repeated 'said' everywhere, I really enjoyed the book from the characters to the creepy descriptions of the 12th Company of the Emperor's Children and their vessels. The scenes with just Bile thinking out loud while working or in his lab were also quite interesting and fleshed his character. He is far more interesting here than in any HH book I've read.

 

I think I'll be starting Clonelord right away but I will skip the audio book this time just to avoid the things that were annoying me (which were far more noticeable because of the audio). It's a bit of a shame because John Banks gives an excellent performance in Primogenitor.

[Khornflakes]

Almost finished Clonelord and, given what you mentioned, have been concentration to see if 'said' occurs more often. Happy to report that it doesn't seem to (to me anyway)

 

very good book - getting better and better. 

[Khornflakes]

Finished Clonelord yesterday. the book got better with a very good ending - in my opinion.

 

giving the Fulgrim-clone to the Necron for his collection and seeing Fabius' torment with his decision was good. one aspect which i thought was well dealt with was how Fabius dealt with Alkenex; no grand face-off, no major battle - just a 'take them as well if you want' to the Necron..gave me a chuckle.

 

The next book should be interesting as well 

[mc warhammer]

Finished Clonelord yesterday. the book got better with a very good ending - in my opinion.

 

giving the Fulgrim-clone to the Necron for his collection and seeing Fabius' torment with his decision was good. one aspect which i thought was well dealt with was how Fabius dealt with Alkenex; no grand face-off, no major battle - just a 'take them as well if you want' to the Necron..gave me a chuckle.

 

The next book should be interesting as well 

 

is there any exploration of why fabius created the clone? is it simply to see if he could? or did fabius have plans for him?

[Sandlemad]

The clone 

was a rediscovered leftover, one of his experiments on Harmony from before Abaddon wrecked it in Talon of Horus. He'd put aside any ideas of resurrecting/cloning the primarchs by the time of this book - the misguided efforts of his youth, clinging to the past, that sort of thing - so finding this miraculously intact clone in the wreckage of his former fortress-laboratory makes him revaluate all his goals for the New Men and such.

 

Maybe he could instruct this Fulgrim, resurrect the third legion to a unified fighting force and hold dominion over the eye as they did immediately after the scouring. Maybe this Fulgrim could shepherd and protect his future iterations of humanity after he's gone. Fabius has constantly changing plans but is sharp enough to recognise that these are all justifications coming from nostalgic and charismatic proximity to a child version of his gene-father.

[Marshal Rohr]

This is how some of the Primarch novels read too. It’s very jarring and difficult to get into. It feels like fan fiction when they use it over and over again.

[Warpmiss]

Well, at the end of the day, I do consider BL books to be glorified fanfiction.

[SchultzChaos]

The thing that I will remember most strongly from this novel is the idea that

there was a redeeming quality to the 3rd. This Fulgrim-clone wants to fix the wrongs of the original Fulgrim and save his other brothers from damnation. It was an awesome sense of tragedy to the whole story, that there was an ember of goodness inside the 3rd that could have been saved if Fabious hadn't doubted himself and his gene-father.

 

One of the coolest images in the last part of the book is when the Fulgrim-clone ignites an uprising amongst the slave-mutants of Fabious ship against the ECs onboard, and one of the characters stumbles upon a crying Child. The Marine can't understand his father's hate towards them (as clone-Fulgrim slaughters his way towards the bridge) as they have always tried to please him, and the thought that all their deeds and actions since after Isstvan may have been wrong destroys all confidence and ego within the Marine.

[mc warhammer]

thanks for the info on

the clone. i have a weird fascination with clones, so cheers and all that. i actually expected fulgrim II to be unconscious/sedated the whole time...i had no clue he would actually be active. i'll have to give this a read

[Loesh]

I think, I somewhat painfully have to make a recommendation to read these books.

The thing is, as an Emperor's Children fan, and one who has all this stuff stamped all over it along with a bunch of Slaanesh iconography, it provides a lot of interesting lore tidbits and background information. But the narrative arcs are hamstrung by status quo. I knew by the end of the first book X thing would not happen, because it doesn't. I knew halfway through Clonelord that X thing won't happen because it never can. X thing is an interesting direction for Fabius, in fact I imagine that the theme in Clonelord comes back to X precisely because the author knew it was super interesting, but there's diminishing returns. If X thing doesn't show up in the third book I will most likely be disinterested because Fabius without X is now infinitely less interesting to me, if X thing DOES show up again when X has failed both times already, I will be immediately apathetic and/or super skeptical of the entire narrative thrust, and if for some reason it's still status Quo by the end after for some reason I decided to read it, I would probably be actually angry in real life.

But I would read Primogenitor at least, because X is pulled off flawlessly there.

[Warpmiss]

I imagine there's only so much that the BL authors are allowed to write. Advancing the story/going against the status quo are most likely a big no-no unless GW gives their blessings.

 

I haven't been able to start Clonelord yet (and I'm such an idiot that I just started Mechanichum because I suddenly wanted to read about AdMech and that book was in my to-read list), but from reading Primogenitor, I understand what you mean. There's at least one major plot point, the real reason why Oleander went to Fabius, that I am certain is not going to happen.

[Loesh]

And when Fabius is talking about that thing, the thing Oleander went to him for, the depth of his character magnifies significantly. I am pretty sure said thing won't be in Manflayer unless they touch on the thirteen scars incident, but if they do the thing needs to have some limited permanence. I don't care how large that permanence in, it could be a super small scale project for Fabius in the grand scheme of things, but it needs to have some actual impact after the book in question. But if  it is thirteen scars, like I suspect it might be, then I almost certain X will not appear again in any major capacity.

Which is a shame, because at this point, I think the Fabius Bile series is as much about X as Fabius Bile, if it has no last effect after the trilogy then the trilogy feels pointless, if X doesn't appear at all in Manflayer, it's going to feel out of touch with the other two books.

[mc warhammer]

threadomancy...

 

finally read primo and part way through clonelord, have to echo many already: they're great. really enjoyed/ing these

 

some points:

 

* couldn't put it down. the plot and characters dragged me in

* made me a fabius fan. his novel appearances up till now were cliche or tedious, but he's a fascinating outsider amongst the chaos legions in these books

* no matter how little page time they got, all the characters involved felt real, with believable motivations. very little "red shirting"

* these demons are the most fun i've read. the stuff that comes out of their mouths is fascinating. and i loved  each time fabius shows down with one

 

part of me feels that books like this, looking back on the heresy are actually better than ones set during the heresy itself. luckily though, they aren't dampened by the HH series itself. for me, these books (black legion, night lords etc) actually enhance and improve what i feel is lacking in the HH.

 

the "said" stuff mentioned earlier in this thread hasn't bothered me in the slightest, but i'm surprised nobody has picked up on two consistently recurring things across both books:

 

1. people are constantly reaching for or resting hands on hilts of weapons. like, almost every conversation, whenever things get tense. i can understand that would be a common reaction among warriors when they have a chat...but maybe a little too common here?

 

2. people constantly calling each other by names they do not like.

oleander calls fabius master. fabius tells him to stop. oleaner does not.

fabius calls the radiant kasperos. kasperos tells him to stop. fabius does not. 

flavius calls fabius spider. fabius asks him to stop. flavius does not.etc

 

it happens so much, i have to assume the writer did it on purpose? does it strike any thematic chords for anyone? or is it a 'wet leopard growl' that seems to have flown under the radar?

 

all in all, haven't had this much fun with a BL book in ages.

[Medjugorje]

 

Primogenitor is damn awesome, really. I haven't read the Blood Angels stuff with Fabius in it, but I've heard mixed returns about it.

I was mainly thinking about Primogenitor and Clonelord, is he a prominent character in a BA series too?

 

 

In Lucius too,.. and in this book he was much more interesting then Lucius himself.

[Slan Drakkos]

threadomancy...

 

but i'm surprised nobody has picked up on two consistently recurring things across both books:

 

1. people are constantly reaching for or resting hands on hilts of weapons. like, almost every conversation, whenever things get tense. i can understand that would be a common reaction among warriors when they have a chat...but maybe a little too common here?

 

2. people constantly calling each other by names they do not like.

oleander calls fabius master. fabius tells him to stop. oleaner does not.

fabius calls the radiant kasperos. kasperos tells him to stop. fabius does not. 

flavius calls fabius spider. fabius asks him to stop. flavius does not.etc

 

it happens so much, i have to assume the writer did it on purpose? does it strike any thematic chords for anyone? or is it a 'wet leopard growl' that seems to have flown under the radar?

 

all in all, haven't had this much fun with a BL book in ages.

1. Keep in mind, these are books about some of the most bloody warmongers in fiction. They've spent millennia in a literal hellhole and love murdering their enemies in gruesome ways. It totally makes sense that they want to be ready to strike at a moment's notice.

 

2. These are emperor's children that we're talking about. They enjoy upsetting and annoying people just because it's entertaining. It also gives them a form of power over each other.

 

Oleander calls Fabius "master" because he's subtly reminding Fabius that he was once his favored student. It allows him to subtly play on his emotions and helps him control Fabius.

 

Fabius calls the radiant "kasperos" not just to upset him, but also to remind him of who it was that made him a space Marines in the first place. The radiant is just as much Fabius' creation as any mutant.

 

Flavius calls Fabius "spider" not just to upset him. He's trying to remind him that he'll always be an outsider to the rest of his brothers.

[mc warhammer]

yeah i understand the motives behind both and how they could be considered traits, but reading the two novels in quick succession, it becomes repetitive at best. 

 

the same effect/message can be achieved in varied ways, rather than employing the exact same device again and again.

 

but since they aren't examples of EC m.o in other books, then they appear less like overall traits of the legion (like say "i recognise my failing and will be sure to correct it") and more a quirk of the writer.

 

in any case, they're tiny things i noticed and obviously didn't dampen my enthusiasm.

[karden00]

Nope. Fabulous Bill as a concept is very difficult to translate into decent, serious, adult level fiction.

That’s my take, anyway.

Nope.

[mc warhammer]

i do still love the name fabulous bill

 

 

also, how good are the red scimitars?

[mc warhammer]

i know i'm talking to myself at this point, but damn 

 

that is my favourite depiction of fulgrim. pretty much ever. i really enjoyed the interaction between non chaos fulgrim and the chaos EC. i could read a whole book just based around that

 

also my favourite eldar to date

 

despite a little repetition in his prose, i'm now a reynolds fan (and some of the phrasing is just beautiful to read./ i also caught what i thought was a littel homage to ADB's "talon").

 

 the fabius books were such an easy read for me. not because they aren't challenging, just that they aren't a chore to slog through