Where’s Luthor

[bevulf]

sorry double post

Edited December 20, 2017 by bevulf

[Phoebus]

I thought that the Changeling was stopped after releasing Luther and before heading directly into the deepest levels of the Rock where Lion's chamber is. That was when Watcher appeared and stopped him from uncovering the greatest secret of the chapter. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

No. The Changeling reaches the dungeon antechamber leading into the cell-blocks. Before the Changeling can open even the first reinforced hatch, the Watcher in the Dark stops it and sends it back where it came from, at which point Azrael, Ragnar, Stern, and DeMorney catch up and banish it.

[bevulf]

Thanks for clarification :)

[Angel of Solitude]

To add to the lore, at some point after the destruction of Cadia and creation of the Great Rift the Rock is invaded by a Daemon army led by the Fallen Daemon Prince Marbas. The forces disappear as quickly as they arrived, resulting in a collective shrug of the shoulders across the Rock. However, Azrael later realises that this was merely a diversion, allowing Luther to be set free.

[Corswain]

Cool. A bit of 8th I actually like. Just from the Codex, or is there a novel I’ve missed?

[CypherTheFallen]

What are the sources of the bits about Corswain killing Luther's Cypher and Marbas invading the rock?

 

Edited due to failing at quotes on my mobile.

Edited December 20, 2017 by CypherTheFallen

[Angel of Solitude]

Cool. A bit of 8th I actually like. Just from the Codex, or is there a novel I’ve missed?

All from the Codex. It’s definitely setting up a future showdown with the Fallen, potentially heralding the return of the Lion...

[Syphid]

What are the sources of the bits about Corswain killing Luther's Cypher and Marbas invading the rock?

 

Edited due to failing at quotes on my mobile.

Marbas was originally mentioned in the Cypher Dataslate, and his invasion of the Rock is in the Codex.

[Chapter Master Valrak]

If anyone is interested, I did a video on some of the new lore:

Also here is a text version:

 

 

Great Rift happens.

 

The Rock is caught in Imperium Nihilus Sector, the galactic north that is wholly cut off from the Emperor’s Astronomican.

 

-

 

The Rock besieged.

 

A Daemon army led by the Fallen Daemon Prince Marbas penetrates the formidable shields that surround the asteroid base.

 

Fighting takes place within the grand halls and even in the inner sublevels.​

 

As the conflict reaches its climactic point, the invaders disappear with the same suddenness with which they manifested, having ultimately achieved little beyond mindless slaughter and destruction… or so it is believed.​

 

There is one, however, that knows otherwise. In the deepest dungeon, a secret prisoner known only to the Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels has been set free.

 

Azrael suspects the entire battle was merely a diversion so the agents of Chaos could accomplish their true task.

 

-

 

Massacre at Darkmor.

 

Elements of half a dozen Unforgiven Chapters descend upon the shrine world of Darkmor. With them come multiple Companies from the Angels of Vengeance, the Consecrators and the Guardians of the Covenant.

 

All have followed their Librarians’ scryings to the planet, searching for the newly materialised Fallen.

 

They soon discover that is them who are the hunted not the fallen.

 

On the planet’s surface, the Unforgiven Chapters find the world’s vast cathedrals in ruins and its populace slaughtered. Awaiting in ambush are armies of Daemons, Chaos Space Marines and renegades.  

 

What follows is the worst single incident of losses suffered by the Unforgiven since the Forgotten Wars. Less than a hundred Space Marines from an original contingent of a thousand manage to escape.

 

Those who survived the ambush only managed to escape because they pursue Cypher who, in his attempt to flee, leads them to a secret teleportation device

-

 

The Primarchs Summit.

 

In the wake of these distracious events, Azrael decides to convene an emergency council of the Unforgiven’s Supreme Grand Masters, several of whom are still nearby following the Darkmor Massacre.

 

The Dark Angels’ Librarians succeed in the Great Rift and send out a scattered astropathic summons. Several Librarians dies to achieve this but soon every loyal son of the Lion is preparing to embark on a perilous journey to the Rock.

 

Not all Chapters find their way home. Some successor Chapters become lost in the warp, while others find themselves bogged down in one of the galaxy’s many raging conflicts.

 

Azrael decides he can wait no longer for the remaining successors to arrive, he is informed of a new fleet transitioning into orbit around the Rock.

 

It’s no Xenos, Chaos or Unforgiven Chapter, but the Lord Commander of the Imperium.

 

Azrael fears the worst, he doesn’t have the strength to defend the Rock and the newly returned Primarch knows the truth of the Dark Angels’ hidden past.

 

Azrael debates whether to order the withdrawal of the assembled Unforgiven Chapters, or to make a stand and take up arms against the Primarch’s delegation.

 

He decided neither and allows Guilliman’s fleets to dock without incident.

 

It quickly becomes clear that the newly arrived fleet come not to deliver censure, but much-needed reinforcements.

 

From the depths of Belisarius Cawl’s vast freighter-hulk march Primaris Space Marines

 

Rank upon rank of them enters the Rock clad in new variants of armour painted in the colours of the Dark Angels and their successors.

 

Guilliman holds a War Council with Azrael and the other Grandmasters.

 

He outlines the threats facing the Imperium and his plans to continue the Indomitus Crusade.

 

He also speaks of the updated Codex Astartes, and how his brother El’Jonson’s descendants have earned the right to maintain their specialised wings, as long as they continue to serve the Emperor well.  Azrael and the other Supreme Grand Masters kneel before Guilliman, and pledge their Chapters to the new Imperium.

 

The Dark Imperium

 

In the darkest reaches of the galaxy, shorn from the light of the Emperor, Azrael can more easily coordinate the Inner Circle, responding to the distress calls that flood in from the isolated and warp-storm battered worlds of the galactic north.

 

In addition to breaking sieges and rescuing beleaguered populations, the Dark Angels and their successors continue the hunt for the Fallen, especially pursuing any signs of Cypher and the Daemon Prince Marbas.

 

Primaris and Dark Angels

 

Immediate concerns over the Primaris Space Marines are satisfied as the new warriors adapt to the Unforgiven’s ways of war and perform well alongside their battle-brothers.

 

The Inner Circle remains hostile to their presence, for the newcomers have not gone through the long indoctrinations, nor heard the carefully built-up tales that prepare them to one day hear the truth.

 

As campaigns progress and decades pass, many of the Primaris Space Marines gain veteran status, and it remains only a matter of time before a decision must be made to initiate one of them into Deathwing

 

The Fallen rise...

 

The Darkest Angels Rumours, psychic signatures and the torture-wrought confessions of captured prisoners tell of a mustering within the darkest recesses of the warp-shrouded Nihilus Sector. They speak of a gathering of many of the Fallen, a corrupted Legion reassembling in numbers enough to bring the entire galaxy to heel.

 

Azrael alone suspects the truth of who is leading them…

 

 

 

[rendingon1+]

If anyone is interested, I did a video on some of the new lore:

 

 

Also here is a text version:

 

 

Great Rift happens.

 

The Rock is caught in Imperium Nihilus Sector, the galactic north that is wholly cut off from the Emperor’s Astronomican.

 

-

 

The Rock besieged.

 

A Daemon army led by the Fallen Daemon Prince Marbas penetrates the formidable shields that surround the asteroid base.

 

Fighting takes place within the grand halls and even in the inner sublevels.​

 

As the conflict reaches its climactic point, the invaders disappear with the same suddenness with which they manifested, having ultimately achieved little beyond mindless slaughter and destruction… or so it is believed.​

 

There is one, however, that knows otherwise. In the deepest dungeon, a secret prisoner known only to the Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels has been set free.

 

Azrael suspects the entire battle was merely a diversion so the agents of Chaos could accomplish their true task.

 

-

 

Massacre at Darkmor.

 

Elements of half a dozen Unforgiven Chapters descend upon the shrine world of Darkmor. With them come multiple Companies from the Angels of Vengeance, the Consecrators and the Guardians of the Covenant.

 

All have followed their Librarians’ scryings to the planet, searching for the newly materialised Fallen.

 

They soon discover that is them who are the hunted not the fallen.

 

On the planet’s surface, the Unforgiven Chapters find the world’s vast cathedrals in ruins and its populace slaughtered. Awaiting in ambush are armies of Daemons, Chaos Space Marines and renegades.

 

What follows is the worst single incident of losses suffered by the Unforgiven since the Forgotten Wars. Less than a hundred Space Marines from an original contingent of a thousand manage to escape.

 

Those who survived the ambush only managed to escape because they pursue Cypher who, in his attempt to flee, leads them to a secret teleportation device

-

 

The Primarchs Summit.

 

In the wake of these distracious events, Azrael decides to convene an emergency council of the Unforgiven’s Supreme Grand Masters, several of whom are still nearby following the Darkmor Massacre.

 

The Dark Angels’ Librarians succeed in the Great Rift and send out a scattered astropathic summons. Several Librarians dies to achieve this but soon every loyal son of the Lion is preparing to embark on a perilous journey to the Rock.

 

Not all Chapters find their way home. Some successor Chapters become lost in the warp, while others find themselves bogged down in one of the galaxy’s many raging conflicts.

 

Azrael decides he can wait no longer for the remaining successors to arrive, he is informed of a new fleet transitioning into orbit around the Rock.

 

It’s no Xenos, Chaos or Unforgiven Chapter, but the Lord Commander of the Imperium.

 

Azrael fears the worst, he doesn’t have the strength to defend the Rock and the newly returned Primarch knows the truth of the Dark Angels’ hidden past.

 

Azrael debates whether to order the withdrawal of the assembled Unforgiven Chapters, or to make a stand and take up arms against the Primarch’s delegation.

 

He decided neither and allows Guilliman’s fleets to dock without incident.

 

It quickly becomes clear that the newly arrived fleet come not to deliver censure, but much-needed reinforcements.

 

From the depths of Belisarius Cawl’s vast freighter-hulk march Primaris Space Marines

 

Rank upon rank of them enters the Rock clad in new variants of armour painted in the colours of the Dark Angels and their successors.

 

Guilliman holds a War Council with Azrael and the other Grandmasters.

 

He outlines the threats facing the Imperium and his plans to continue the Indomitus Crusade.

 

He also speaks of the updated Codex Astartes, and how his brother El’Jonson’s descendants have earned the right to maintain their specialised wings, as long as they continue to serve the Emperor well. Azrael and the other Supreme Grand Masters kneel before Guilliman, and pledge their Chapters to the new Imperium.

 

The Dark Imperium

 

In the darkest reaches of the galaxy, shorn from the light of the Emperor, Azrael can more easily coordinate the Inner Circle, responding to the distress calls that flood in from the isolated and warp-storm battered worlds of the galactic north.

 

In addition to breaking sieges and rescuing beleaguered populations, the Dark Angels and their successors continue the hunt for the Fallen, especially pursuing any signs of Cypher and the Daemon Prince Marbas.

 

Primaris and Dark Angels

 

Immediate concerns over the Primaris Space Marines are satisfied as the new warriors adapt to the Unforgiven’s ways of war and perform well alongside their battle-brothers.

 

The Inner Circle remains hostile to their presence, for the newcomers have not gone through the long indoctrinations, nor heard the carefully built-up tales that prepare them to one day hear the truth.

 

As campaigns progress and decades pass, many of the Primaris Space Marines gain veteran status, and it remains only a matter of time before a decision must be made to initiate one of them into Deathwing

 

The Fallen rise...

 

The Darkest Angels Rumours, psychic signatures and the torture-wrought confessions of captured prisoners tell of a mustering within the darkest recesses of the warp-shrouded Nihilus Sector. They speak of a gathering of many of the Fallen, a corrupted Legion reassembling in numbers enough to bring the entire galaxy to heel.

 

Azrael alone suspects the truth of who is leading them…

 

 

 

I will watch it if you promise to stop making "dark angels are traitor/chaos" meme jokes in your future videos from now on:-)

[Chapter Master Valrak]

 

If anyone is interested, I did a video on some of the new lore:

 

 

Also here is a text version:

 

 

Great Rift happens.

 

The Rock is caught in Imperium Nihilus Sector, the galactic north that is wholly cut off from the Emperor’s Astronomican.

 

-

 

The Rock besieged.

 

A Daemon army led by the Fallen Daemon Prince Marbas penetrates the formidable shields that surround the asteroid base.

 

Fighting takes place within the grand halls and even in the inner sublevels.​

 

As the conflict reaches its climactic point, the invaders disappear with the same suddenness with which they manifested, having ultimately achieved little beyond mindless slaughter and destruction… or so it is believed.​

 

There is one, however, that knows otherwise. In the deepest dungeon, a secret prisoner known only to the Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels has been set free.

 

Azrael suspects the entire battle was merely a diversion so the agents of Chaos could accomplish their true task.

 

-

 

Massacre at Darkmor.

 

Elements of half a dozen Unforgiven Chapters descend upon the shrine world of Darkmor. With them come multiple Companies from the Angels of Vengeance, the Consecrators and the Guardians of the Covenant.

 

All have followed their Librarians’ scryings to the planet, searching for the newly materialised Fallen.

 

They soon discover that is them who are the hunted not the fallen.

 

On the planet’s surface, the Unforgiven Chapters find the world’s vast cathedrals in ruins and its populace slaughtered. Awaiting in ambush are armies of Daemons, Chaos Space Marines and renegades.

 

What follows is the worst single incident of losses suffered by the Unforgiven since the Forgotten Wars. Less than a hundred Space Marines from an original contingent of a thousand manage to escape.

 

Those who survived the ambush only managed to escape because they pursue Cypher who, in his attempt to flee, leads them to a secret teleportation device

-

 

The Primarchs Summit.

 

In the wake of these distracious events, Azrael decides to convene an emergency council of the Unforgiven’s Supreme Grand Masters, several of whom are still nearby following the Darkmor Massacre.

 

The Dark Angels’ Librarians succeed in the Great Rift and send out a scattered astropathic summons. Several Librarians dies to achieve this but soon every loyal son of the Lion is preparing to embark on a perilous journey to the Rock.

 

Not all Chapters find their way home. Some successor Chapters become lost in the warp, while others find themselves bogged down in one of the galaxy’s many raging conflicts.

 

Azrael decides he can wait no longer for the remaining successors to arrive, he is informed of a new fleet transitioning into orbit around the Rock.

 

It’s no Xenos, Chaos or Unforgiven Chapter, but the Lord Commander of the Imperium.

 

Azrael fears the worst, he doesn’t have the strength to defend the Rock and the newly returned Primarch knows the truth of the Dark Angels’ hidden past.

 

Azrael debates whether to order the withdrawal of the assembled Unforgiven Chapters, or to make a stand and take up arms against the Primarch’s delegation.

 

He decided neither and allows Guilliman’s fleets to dock without incident.

 

It quickly becomes clear that the newly arrived fleet come not to deliver censure, but much-needed reinforcements.

 

From the depths of Belisarius Cawl’s vast freighter-hulk march Primaris Space Marines

 

Rank upon rank of them enters the Rock clad in new variants of armour painted in the colours of the Dark Angels and their successors.

 

Guilliman holds a War Council with Azrael and the other Grandmasters.

 

He outlines the threats facing the Imperium and his plans to continue the Indomitus Crusade.

 

He also speaks of the updated Codex Astartes, and how his brother El’Jonson’s descendants have earned the right to maintain their specialised wings, as long as they continue to serve the Emperor well. Azrael and the other Supreme Grand Masters kneel before Guilliman, and pledge their Chapters to the new Imperium.

 

The Dark Imperium

 

In the darkest reaches of the galaxy, shorn from the light of the Emperor, Azrael can more easily coordinate the Inner Circle, responding to the distress calls that flood in from the isolated and warp-storm battered worlds of the galactic north.

 

In addition to breaking sieges and rescuing beleaguered populations, the Dark Angels and their successors continue the hunt for the Fallen, especially pursuing any signs of Cypher and the Daemon Prince Marbas.

 

Primaris and Dark Angels

 

Immediate concerns over the Primaris Space Marines are satisfied as the new warriors adapt to the Unforgiven’s ways of war and perform well alongside their battle-brothers.

 

The Inner Circle remains hostile to their presence, for the newcomers have not gone through the long indoctrinations, nor heard the carefully built-up tales that prepare them to one day hear the truth.

 

As campaigns progress and decades pass, many of the Primaris Space Marines gain veteran status, and it remains only a matter of time before a decision must be made to initiate one of them into Deathwing

 

The Fallen rise...

 

The Darkest Angels Rumours, psychic signatures and the torture-wrought confessions of captured prisoners tell of a mustering within the darkest recesses of the warp-shrouded Nihilus Sector. They speak of a gathering of many of the Fallen, a corrupted Legion reassembling in numbers enough to bring the entire galaxy to heel.

 

Azrael alone suspects the truth of who is leading them…

 

 

 

I will watch it if you promise to stop making "dark angels are traitor/chaos" meme jokes in your future videos from now on:-)

 

 

[Phoebus]

What are the sources of the bits about Corswain killing Luther's Cypher and Marbas invading the rock?

 

Edited due to failing at quotes on my mobile.

 

 

 

"My Lord Cypher? He is dead. Slain by the hand of the Houndlord who bore my master's blade."

 

Excerpt From

Thorpe, Gav. "The Unforgiven." Black Library, 2015-05-05. iBooks. 

 

As mentioned elsewhere, Corswain is the "Houndlord" in question; he is referred to as such in "Holder of the Keys", which was also written by Gav Thorpe.

[Cactus]

Page 28 of our codex has some more detail about Marbas.

 

Sketchy, half-formed reports of a suspected Fallen named Marbas leading a renegade warband first surfaced in M36, but how the daemon Prince of the same name came to earn the vile favours of the Dark Gods, or even if it is the same being, is unknown. All that can be sure is that the winged daemon Prince speaks too much truth, and still bears the unmistakable elements of the armor of the First Legion. Worst of all, his firm is a direct affront to the memory of the Dark Angels primarch, for Marbas' mutated head has taken on the twisted shape of one the much-feared lions that once dominated the forests of Caliban.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Cactus

[Angel of Solitude]

...for Marbas' mutated head has taken on the twisted shape of one the much-feared lions that once dominated the forests of Caliban.

Zahariel pretty much confirmed!

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

He answers truly on hidden or secret things, causes and heals diseases, teaches mechanical arts, and changes men into other shapes. He is depicted as a great lion [...]

The name Barbas also comes from the Latin "barba", beard, hellebore (a plant used in witchcraft, especially to invoke demons) [...]

 

Emphasis mine.

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbas

Edited December 21, 2017 by Cpt. Bannockburn

[Corswain]

So follow up question, if the OP will allow it - Who knows that Luther is gone? Has Azrael had to tell some of the other Inner Circle or is it still just him?

[Phoebus]

To my knowledge, nothing’s been printed that indicates whether or not anyone other than Azrael knows of Luther’s absence.

[Corswain]

To my knowledge, nothing’s been printed that indicates whether or not anyone other than Azrael knows of Luther’s absence.

Thanks. Figured as much but I haven’t bought the codex yet. The wife’s coming round though. :)

[Cpt_Reaper]

"My Lord Cypher? He is dead. Slain by the hand of the Houndlord who bore my master's blade."

 

Excerpt From

Thorpe, Gav. "The Unforgiven." Black Library, 2015-05-05. iBooks. 

 

 

 

...for Marbas' mutated head has taken on the twisted shape of one the much-feared lions that once dominated the forests of Caliban.

Zahariel pretty much confirmed!

 

 

Zahariel was Luthor's Cypher as of the end of Angels of Caliban. If he stays that Cypher, then Corswain slays him.

 

Zahariel is more than likely dead, baring some sort of shenanigans related to the Oroborous.

[Phoebus]

... Or is thought to be dead. Remember, C.Z. Dunn was supposedly alluding to Epimetheus from Pandorax being Zahariel.

[Cpt_Reaper]

I find it difficult to believe that the Grey Knights would include someone who was so very close to a chaos entity.

[Corswain]

Yeah, I thought Zahariel was Epimetheus when I first read Pandorax but that was pre-Angels of Caliban. No way I believe it now.

Zahariel was mentioned in Unforgiven but not with any context that would indicate that he was either alive or dead, seems unlikely he survived. Marbas has to be someone else, in my opinion.

 

So what’s Luther’s endgame? He’s been repentant and screaming his need for forgiveness for ten-thousand hears and suddenly escapes and may be building an army again?

 

Is he gathering all the repentant 1st Legionaries to present to the Lion for forgiveness when he wakes up? Or gathering the un-repentant, to put all the eggs in one basket, so to speak, so they can be destroyed more easily?

[Trunkello]

Yeah, I thought Zahariel was Epimetheus when I first read Pandorax but that was pre-Angels of Caliban. No way I believe it now.

Zahariel was mentioned in Unforgiven but not with any context that would indicate that he was either alive or dead, seems unlikely he survived. Marbas has to be someone else, in my opinion.

 

So what’s Luther’s endgame? He’s been repentant and screaming his need for forgiveness for ten-thousand hears and suddenly escapes and may be building an army again?

 

Is he gathering all the repentant 1st Legionaries to present to the Lion for forgiveness when he wakes up? Or gathering the un-repentant, to put all the eggs in one basket, so to speak, so they can be destroyed more easily?

Doesnt make sense right? Luther always speaking about getting forgiveness from the Lion then he says: :cuss it i go partying with a bunch of demons. I dont understand what they want to do with this plot. I hope they dont make Luther the enemy again. I wanted him as a new HQ beside the Lion in a triumvirate box.

[Corswain]

He’d be an interesting fit, not quite Space Marine power because he’s surely not Primarch level anymore, without his Chaos patrons.

 

I just can’t see the 40K Dark Angels playing nice with him, they hold a pretty mean grudge.

[depthcharge12]

Yeah, I thought Zahariel was Epimetheus when I first read Pandorax but that was pre-Angels of Caliban. No way I believe it now.

Zahariel was mentioned in Unforgiven but not with any context that would indicate that he was either alive or dead, seems unlikely he survived. Marbas has to be someone else, in my opinion.

 

So what’s Luther’s endgame? He’s been repentant and screaming his need for forgiveness for ten-thousand hears and suddenly escapes and may be building an army again?

 

Is he gathering all the repentant 1st Legionaries to present to the Lion for forgiveness when he wakes up? Or gathering the un-repentant, to put all the eggs in one basket, so to speak, so they can be destroyed more easily?

I don’t know if you saw my post farther up but that was my line of thinking that Luther can get redemption by rounding up all the baddies to be destroyed by a cohesive DA force.

 

Guilliman sort of gave the nod to allow the Unforgiven to squad up like their old legion days to go stomp face.