Where’s Luthor

[Corswain]

No, I missed that. That does seem like the most likely option to me.

[FerociousBeast]

Azrael fears the worst, he doesn’t have the strength to defend the Rock and the newly returned Primarch knows the truth of the Dark Angels’ hidden past.

So, is that true? The DA’s secret is out, and the Imperium shrugs its shoulders? If so, that’s definitely the biggest news in the codex.

Edited December 26, 2017 by FerociousBeast

[Cpt_Reaper]

Guilliman knows, but as far as I can tell he hasn't told anyone. The fact he is a Primarch holding the Emperor's very own sword won't stop certain narrow minded members of the Inquisition from declaring the Unforgiven as traitors. After all, with the new Primaris they can just replace them.

[FerociousBeast]

Guilliman’s seal of approval will stop any Inquisitor in his tracks. The “Unforgiven” status can only be about shame and penance now, not fear of reprisal.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

Guilliman may know.

It's not outright stated, just what Azrael fears most when RG shows up at his doorstep.

 

If he knows, and personally I would say it's likely that he does, or at least suspects (because he's not an idiot) he just doesn't give much of a crap about it.

There's not even a wink and nod towards Azrael to tell him that he's got the Unforgiven by the short and curlies. Just showing up, telling about the updated Codex Astartes, and a bunch of gift-wrapped Primaris and accompanying Redemptors, hover tanks and corresponding wargear.

 

Later there's even a sidebar quote from an inquisitor who had his eyes on the DA that basically says "Whatever there may have been, as long as they keep killing the Imperium's enemies, who cares?"

[Lord_Caerolion]

This is assuming that Luther has gone willingly, though. For all we know he could be being kept purely as a figurehead, something to unite the Fallen behind.

 

In regards to Guilliman, I got the impression that he doesn't know. He's had more important things to focus on since coming back than analysing the strategic movements of a Founding Chapter and their Successors, piecing together that they may or may not be doing so to capture high-value targets, and then making the mental leap to "those targets must be the traitor Dark Angels from when Caliban blew up!" He's been busy focussing on "ok, so the High Lords have done what since I was gone? You've made it so one of the most important branches of the Imperium is a church?!? Wow, Dad would not be happy with that... Now, explain to me again, what are these Necron things? Lastly, what the hell is a Tyranid, and why can you people not stop bickering long enough to actually deal with some of these threats?"

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

Don't forget that he hung out with Cypher a bunch during his return to Terra. Demi-godlike powers of observation and such. ;)

[Lord_Caerolion]

Yeah, which would only really gove away that he was helped by a mysterious guy called Cypher wearing ancient Dark Angels armour, carrying his brothers sword. That doesn't give him "the Dark Angels Legion never truly broke up, but are instead waging a secret hunt for the Fallen who I have no idea exist beyond what Cypher and his squad may or may not be".

 

Hell, Guilliman's lucky he didn't mention to Azrael "say, I met this guy named Cypher, he actually saved my life a few times, I think he had the Lions sword. You guys don't know anything about him, do you?"

 

Remember, as far as the wider Imperium is concerned, Caliban was lost to a Warp Storm which claimed their Primarch. Meeting Cypher isn't in and of itself proof of what happened, let alone that the Dark Angels have spent 10,000 years trying to cover it up.

[Corswain]

This is assuming that Luther has gone willingly, though. For all we know he could be being kept purely as a figurehead, something to unite the Fallen behind.

I like that! Poor Luther, trading one prison for another, being used as a puppet to build someone else (Marbas?) an army.

[Angel of Solitude]

 

If he knows, and personally I would say it's likely that he does, or at least suspects (because he's not an idiot) he just doesn't give much of a crap about it.

There's not even a wink and nod towards Azrael to tell him that he's got the Unforgiven by the short and curlies. Just showing up, telling about the updated Codex Astartes, and a bunch of gift-wrapped Primaris and accompanying Redemptors, hover tanks and corresponding wargear.

 

Later there's even a sidebar quote from an inquisitor who had his eyes on the DA that basically says "Whatever there may have been, as long as they keep killing the Imperium's enemies, who cares?"

Very much this. As somebody pointed out earlier, since the end of the Heresy there have been quite a number of "loyal" Space Marines who have turned against the Imperium, including some of RG's own. The 1st Legion's response has been to focus their MO on the search and destruction of traitor Space Marines, which is no bad thing from RG's perspective: invariably, the Fallen tend to be hanging out with other traitor warbands. 

[Phoebus]

This is assuming that Luther has gone willingly, though. For all we know he could be being kept purely as a figurehead, something to unite the Fallen behind.

 

In regards to Guilliman, I got the impression that he doesn't know. He's had more important things to focus on since coming back than analysing the strategic movements of a Founding Chapter and their Successors, piecing together that they may or may not be doing so to capture high-value targets, and then making the mental leap to "those targets must be the traitor Dark Angels from when Caliban blew up!" He's been busy focussing on "ok, so the High Lords have done what since I was gone? You've made it so one of the most important branches of the Imperium is a church?!? Wow, Dad would not be happy with that... Now, explain to me again, what are these Necron things? Lastly, what the hell is a Tyranid, and why can you people not stop bickering long enough to actually deal with some of these threats?"

 

While I don't think anyone should assume Guilliman knows about the Hunt for the Fallen, I don't know that him being too busy to process to data constitutes a reason for him not knowing. The opening chapters to Know No Fear are a fitting illustration of the frightening cognitive capacity of a Primarch.

[Lord_Caerolion]

While that's true, the fact remains that there's no indication that links the Dark Angels mysterious actions to the potential existence of traitor Dark Angels. Even if he has chosen to analyse the deployment records of the Dark Angels and Successors for the last 10,000 years, he'd see that they're operating with goals not known to the wider Imperial war effort in each conflict. The Dark Angels have been very thorough in keeping any reference to them capturing targets, let alone capturing black-armoured Space Marines, from becoming known outside the Unforgiven. He might be able to piece together that they're hunting something, but there would be absolutely nothing hinting as to what that is. The Unforgiven have made sure of that.

[CypherTheFallen]

Yeah, which would only really gove away that he was helped by a mysterious guy called Cypher wearing ancient Dark Angels armour, carrying his brothers sword. That doesn't give him "the Dark Angels Legion never truly broke up, but are instead waging a secret hunt for the Fallen who I have no idea exist beyond what Cypher and his squad may or may not be".

 

Hell, Guilliman's lucky he didn't mention to Azrael "say, I met this guy named Cypher, he actually saved my life a few times, I think he had the Lions sword. You guys don't know anything about him, do you?"

 

Remember, as far as the wider Imperium is concerned, Caliban was lost to a Warp Storm which claimed their Primarch. Meeting Cypher isn't in and of itself proof of what happened, let alone that the Dark Angels have spent 10,000 years trying to cover it up.

This is what gets me. I don't see any reason for him to piece together the Unforgiven's hunt for the Fallen and all that, but why would he not have tried to find out more about Cypher from Azrael?

 

Someone wearing pre-heresy 1st Legion-esque armor, carrying what Gman knows is the Lion's sword, working with Xenos to walk right into a fortress of heretics within the Warp, then demands an audience with the big E, and then escapes from being imprisoned by the custodes (something previously unheard of)... And there's no follow up to this while Gman is in the Dark Angel's neighborhood??

Edited December 28, 2017 by CypherTheFallen

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, the Dark Angels do have a mind-wipe psychic power.

[rendingon1+]

Well, the Dark Angels do have a mind-wipe psychic power.