Mobile Firebase

[Remtek]

Been looking for ways to maximise the FNP banner as using it for assault has been more than awkward in execution during test games.  

 

Rought draft:

Mephiston

Captain jump pack 

Lieutenant with jump pack or in pod?

Company Ancient with jump pack and FNP banner (index flowchart to take the jp)

3x Inceptors 6xPlasma Exterminators

9 Sternguard, special issue boltgun

Drop Pod

 

 

-Mephiston: (wings, quicken, unleash rage) He goes in pod and uses wings to jump over screens. 

-LT: In reserve, ideally in range of both shooting units and a DoA assault units

-Ancient: can start on the board to buff ground drops then redeploy to firebase or start in reserve. In addition to FNP the banner gives (on a 4+) a    shooting or close combat attack when you die

-Inceptors Alot of good stuff to say about these:

  * An avg. of 12 plasma shots for around 170 points

  * They have the fly and jump pack keyword (can leave combat and shoot + use redeploy later in the game)

  * T5 2 wounds has great synergi with fnp

  * Effective range of 18" makes it easier to shoot past screens

-Stenguard: They have been proven really strong with the SM codex. Lots of str4 -2 shots with +1 to wound is great on anything from conscripts to veichles/monsters and we are already bringing a pod for Meph.

 

This clocks in to about 800-900 points depending on character wargear. We would want some scouts to secure a landing site and a couple of assault units in reserves. Not sure on the last 6-700ish points. 

 

Thoughts?

Edited December 20, 2017 by Remtek

[banis]

Hmm Mephiston in a pod..i like that idea:).. 

[swordofmandulis]

Using the Standard of Sacrifice has been completely underwhelming for assault units for me so far. My opinion would be not to bother using it on the Sanguinary Ancient, stick it on company/Primaris Ancient and put in the midst of your hellblasters for maximum effect.

[Karhedron]

Yup, Hellblasters were made for that combination of 5+FNP and a 4+ extra shot when they die. Add a Captain to reroll 1s and overcharging becomes an acceptable risk. Add an apothecary of some flavour and they can even get back up afterwards.

[Remtek]

Using the Standard of Sacrifice has been completely underwhelming for assault units for me so far. My opinion would be not to bother using it on the Sanguinary Ancient, stick it on company/Primaris Ancient and put in the midst of your hellblasters for maximum effect.

 

The company ancient is not going with any assault units. 

[Charlo]

This seems to be basically what I was considering doing with my lists too.

 

You get some really nice One-Two punch from the mobile firebase (that lands where you want) while something like the DC & Lemartes come down nearby for that 3D6 re-roll charge of goodness.

 

Not many other armies can drop this much aggressive power, when and where they wants and also have the mobility to re-deploy later in the game.

 

I'm not a fan of using index options so i'd probably remove a Sternguard to put the Ancient in the pod too.

 

Like you said, Scouts are superbly synergistic with this build too!

[banis]

How about taking storm bolters instead of special Issue boltguns to better clear that chaff?.

[Karhedron]

How about taking storm bolters instead of special Issue boltguns to better clear that chaff?.

A very good suggestion. Statistically they are both equally effective against 3+ saves with special ammo being better only vs 2+. Storm Bolters have double the ROF but Special Bolters halve the effectiveness of the save.

 

However, you could argue Storm Bolters are better because they have the potential to cause more wounds. If you opponent whiffs their saves, you could cause 4 wounds at close range whereas a Special Bolter is capped at 2.

 

Cover throws a spanner into the works though. Special Bolters are statistically better vs MEQs in cover and TEQs. Funnily enough, they become equal again vs TEQs in cover since a 1 always fails. This means that the Special Bolter only reduces the save to 3+ meaning it is once again the equal of a Storm Bolter.

 

So the Special Bolter is only better specifically against MEQs in cover or TEQs. Against other targets, the higher ROF of the Storm bolter makes it equal or better. Even where the are statistically equal, I would opt for the Storm Bolter for the chance to cause my opponents extra wounds if they roll badly on their saves.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Karhedronuk

[Panzer]

Why not just take Bolter Inceptors instead. :P

[Crimson Ghost IX]

I like your mobile firebase idea very much Remtek. Show those Tau a thing or two =)

 

I was planning to use the company ancient as well.

Was gonna shove mine in a razoback advance with the Sternguard.

 

You all are gonna tempt me into these Primaris marines yet.

That horse artillery angle with the inceptors is sexy.

 

I totally agree with those saying banner of sacrifice and assault is sub optimal.

Can't tail back to the buff etc

[Karhedron]

Why not just take Bolter Inceptors instead.

Because, ummmm....... They're Primaris!

 

Joking aside, Bolter Inceptors do look good now they have come down in price. 6 wounds at T5 vs 10 at T4 is a pretty fair comparison and they are much more mobile after they drop (especially with things like On Wings of Fire).

[Charlo]

 

How about taking storm bolters instead of special Issue boltguns to better clear that chaff?.

A very good suggestion. Statistically they are both equally effective against 3+ saves with special ammo being better only vs 2+. Storm Bolters have double the ROF but Special Bolters halve the effectiveness of the save.

 

However, you could argue Storm Bolters are better because they have the potential to cause more wounds. If you opponent whiffs their saves, you could cause 4 wounds at close range whereas a Special Bolter is capped at 2.

 

Cover throws a spanner into the works though. Special Bolters are statistically better vs MEQs in cover and TEQs. Funnily enough, they become equal again vs TEQs in cover since a 1 always fails. This means that the Special Bolter only reduces the save to 3+ meaning it is once again the equal of a Storm Bolter.

 

So the Special Bolter is only better specifically against MEQs in cover or TEQs. Against other targets, the higher ROF of the Storm bolter makes it equal or better. Even where the are statistically equal, I would opt for the Storm Bolter for the chance to cause my opponents extra wounds if they roll badly on their saves.

 

 

Is think taking into account the Stratagem to get +1 to wound on the Special Boltguns?

[Karhedron]

Is think taking into account the Stratagem to get +1 to wound on the Special Boltguns?

No, this is just as they come. It's a nice stratagem but we have so much competition for CPs in our Codex.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Just my opinion on Sternguard. - They are my favorite for mech infantry right now.

 

Special Issue bolters for me on Sternguard because they can do that, and they do what they do well enuf for me.

I will put stormbolters on another platform; (perhaps a more mobile one), if I am leaning towards stormbolters (great for sure).

Jump Infantry Vets, Termies, random vehicle pintles etc.

 

Sternguard pack the heavy weapons and fight pretty well in CQC with Red Thirst and such. They tick my boxes and can hide in bawkses 

They do mean giving up obsec and at least 2cp by forgoing a battalion for a vanguard in the lists I have been building.

I think it is worth it tho currently. =) 

 

I think of it as:

--  Crimson Ghost list building Stratagem 121 (forego 2cp) --

Ditch rather anemic ObSec Troop Battalion for more capable list choices with other formations.

Use in the list building stage for further access to better elite infantry etc - pay points for your toys as normal.

Note to self: Remember to kill those "lesser" obsec enemy troops before they score much in moments of close contest brother...

Edited December 20, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[brother_b]

Great idea. I think Mephiston and a strong shooty contingent in a drop pod has been bantered about since the codex drop. I hadn't thought of bringing a banner along. That could make your shooting base quite strong.

 

A melta sternguard squad, or even just assault/tactical marines with meltas along with a regular sternguard squad with storm bolters, could threaten a variety of targets.

 

I've been planning on grav dev squad of 5, plus cherub, plus sterguard squad of 5, with mephiston for a while.

 

I may have to add that banner to the drop mix.

 

Good ideas!

[Remtek]

Special issue boltgun

The reasoning for special issue boltguns over stormbolters is they do very well vs eldar which is a tough matchup, typically to help take out a waveserpent (since plasma dmg i halved vs them) or to take out reapers in cover. 

 

Scout bikes

For the anti horde horde scout bikes are looking very strong, going back to the index flowchart the sarge may take combi weapons or pistols. Have to double check the rules, but that would mean he would come with a twin boltgun, stormbolter, shotgun and a combat knife, so the sarge alone wound be up to 10 shots at range 12 (i think). The other bikes would be 6 shots a piece netting 22 shots from ranged and 7 attacks in close combat all for less than 80 points. 

 

Taking 4-5 3man units that start on the table, the company ancient with JP can give all of them 5+ FNP making them very durable for the points! Which can be nice when going second. 

When the firebase lands you can burn a cp to move him over to the pod firebase. 

 

Still on the fence between Vanguard and DC or perhaps SG. The DC seem like the strongest, but Vanguard and SG can be really durable in some spots!

[Crimson Ghost IX]

I am kinda liking 4xSangGuard with Sword and Plasma Pistol @156pts best.

Just big enough to do some damage and also to hold onto something.

Plus I have been wanting to feel good about having them in my army forever it seems.

 

DC are DC, if you are not going bikescout or stormbolter heavy elsewhere they might be best prolly.

 

VV are sweet for jump stormshields and also lightning claws it seems.

 

CompanyVets are good mobile special weapons and a smaller possible squad size is handy.

Although the Inceptors are prolly a better choice really.

 

Any are great with this mobile firebase idea depending on the build out.

I kinda like that about the codex =)

[Diagramdude]

I think the sternguard stratagem is very good for stripping wounds off T7 vehicles. Wounding on 4s with -2AP, and often you don't need to kill a vehicle, just degrade it to an ignorable state.

 

I didn't consider this until reading this thread, but sternguard in a Rhino sounds real appealing. Helps them get safely into rapid fire range and they rock 2 attacks each with 3 on the sarge...

 

10 sternguard disembark, 20 str 4 ap -2 shots, +1 to wound with strat, then 22 str 4 melee attacks with +1 to wound. And the rhino can soak the overwatch. All of that is 180 points base for the sternguard and 72 for the rhino.

 

I think BA need efficient ways to clear screens and sternguard fit the bill nicely.

[Panzer]

I'd still rather take Inceptors for that tho to be honest.

10 Steringuard + Rhino are 262p (10 Sternguard cost 190p, not 180p).

For 270p you get 5 Bolter Inceptors which are easier to deploy, have all the benefits of being a FLY unit with Jump Packs in a Blood Angels army, 30 S5 AP-1 shots (only 10 melee attacks tho) and T5.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

I'd still rather take Inceptors for that tho to be honest.

10 Steringuard + Rhino are 262p (10 Sternguard cost 190p, not 180p).

For 270p you get 5 Bolter Inceptors which are easier to deploy, have all the benefits of being a FLY unit with Jump Packs in a Blood Angels army, 30 S5 AP-1 shots (only 10 melee attacks tho) and T5.

 

I see your point on paper sfPanzer and agree Inceptors are great at dealing shooting damage.

Now suppose your enemy is Rhino(s) of Khorne Bezerkers ;)

Still favor the Inceptor(s)?

 

Also consider the Sternguard & Rhino plan can swap in support like close range heavy weapons.

Perhaps for multirole and anti armour. -see Grav Cannon etc.

The characters I could carry are somewhat moot in comparing these, but Lt Dan etc will be there too.

 

I'm not saying you are wrong man, Inceptors are definately great.

I am just saying I think the Sternguard in a transport are a solid choice and should not be dismissed quickly.

 

The Inceptors do not suck and should not be dismissed either.

Remaining mobile all the time on your turn is a great advantage they have for instance.

They can bust some sweet shenanigans with strats too as the game progresses and openings arise.

 

Anyhow,

I will be cracking boxed Khorne nuts almost every game weekend after the holiday probably.

So that influences my thoughts for certain.

[Panzer]

 

I'd still rather take Inceptors for that tho to be honest.

10 Steringuard + Rhino are 262p (10 Sternguard cost 190p, not 180p).

For 270p you get 5 Bolter Inceptors which are easier to deploy, have all the benefits of being a FLY unit with Jump Packs in a Blood Angels army, 30 S5 AP-1 shots (only 10 melee attacks tho) and T5.

 

I see your point on paper sfPanzer and agree Inceptors are great at dealing shooting damage.

Now suppose your enemy is Rhino(s) of Khorne Bezerkers

Still favor the Inceptor(s)?

 

Also consider the Sternguard & Rhino plan can swap in support like close range heavy weapons.

Perhaps for multirole and anti armour. -see Grav Cannon etc.

The characters I could carry are somewhat moot in comparing these, but Lt Dan etc will be there too.

 

I'm not saying you are wrong man, Inceptors are definately great.

I am just saying I think the Sternguard in a transport are a solid choice and should not be dismissed quickly.

 

The Inceptors do not suck and should not be dismissed either.

Remaining mobile all the time on your turn is a great advantage they have for instance.

They can bust some sweet shenanigans with strats too as the game progresses and openings arise.

 

Anyhow,

I will be cracking boxed Khorne nuts almost every game weekend after the holiday probably.

So that influences my thoughts for certain.

 

Yes because other parts of my list would be there to deal with transports and Sternguards would do just as little against such a unit before they die anyway. ;)

Also, I can only repeat how good FLY is. You can charge something you don't plan to kill in melee or get charged by something you can't kill in melee and still keep shooting in your turn. ^^

[Crimson Ghost IX]

 

 

Yes because other parts of my list would be there to deal with transports and Sternguards would do just as little against such a unit before they die anyway.

Also, I can only repeat how good FLY is. You can charge something you don't plan to kill in melee or get charged by something you can't kill in melee and still keep shooting in your turn. ^^

 

 

 

Kool =)

Man I LOVE 8th edition so far.

So many ways to peel a potato or eat khorne nuts...

 

I think I am still gonna roll the armour because it is ready to rock and roll.

Liking the Inceptors for sure tho and will likely obtain some at some point.