Ascanius Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I think those illustrations are proof enough that the Desert Lions robots are from the era when they hadn't quite worked out what Space Marines were, in the sense of beings separate from the rest of the Imperium as opposed to guys wearing power armour. This was the same era where the Ultramarines had a half-Eldar Librarian, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMDR_Welles Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I think those illustrations are proof enough that the Desert Lions robots are from the era when they hadn't quite worked out what Space Marines were, in the sense of beings separate from the rest of the Imperium as opposed to guys wearing power armour. This was the same era where the Ultramarines had a half-Eldar Librarian, you know? Robots were a bitch to use back then... Writing the Program Flow Chart was a pain in the ass, and you could easily end up programming them wrong and being useless for most of a game. And yeah, I think the early Space Marine changes to their background came with one of the Compendiums or the very first Chapter Approved books. They went from normal dude in power armor to super soldiers. It was a marked difference in approach to their fluff for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I think one of the things that I like the most in the lore that I see used the least (or at least the least explained) is the hypno-indoctrination. It seems like one of the most interesting things, and probably goes back as far as the Rogue Trader/penal-Marines concept that I can tell, that is rarely used beyond simply saying that it is used in the training/re-training of Marines, so I'm thinking that it's something used to implant very basic protocols, teach battle cant, etc., to the new recruits. I'd really like to see it brought to the fore more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Shift Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 IIRC the first of Bill Kings Ragnar novels features hypno indoctrination and its really interesting. The recruits have loads of knowledge just uploaded into their brains. I'm surprised isn't more explicitly described in the codexes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I'll work on Lysander's own once I've recovered from All-Nighter #15362. Here it is. Captain Lysander of the Imperial Fists Imperial Fists are a chapter gifted with a largely deserved reputation of zeal and aggressiveness, due to the fact they never hesitate to take the most impregnable of fortifications by storm. Such actions rest for the most part upon the power of their 1st Company of veterans clad in tactical dreadnought armor. It is commanded by one of the oldest marines still in service, the captain Lysander. Lysander is an exception among the Adeptus Astartes in the sense that he was recruited on Terra itself. This recruitment occurred at the end of a long pilgrimage started by his parents long before his birth. This epic tale, disturbed by the betrayal, enslaving and murder of his family, lasted in total thirteen years. Kept alive by the Imperial Cult's charity and his own resources, the young Lysander learned to fight first to survive, then to see through the pilgrimage started by his parents. His road toward Terra led him through the ravages of the Waaagh! Grozadkk, the horrors of the Quesarch Heresy and the purges that followed. The young pilgrim's determination soon was known in high places, and he was welcomed as a hero upon his arrival on Terra. In those days, chaplain Shadryss of the Imperial Fists was on Terra and got wind of the boy's story. He found him near the Pillar of Bones, a monument erected in honor of the Imperial Fists' courage during some forgotten campaign. However Shadryss, who considered his chapter's history to be sacred, knew that of the monument. The Pillar was the last vestige of the Imperial Fists' old fortress on Terra, destroyed during the Horus Heresy. At this time, the Heresy was nothing more than a myth, and few were those who could still dare claim the forces of the Great Enemy had trod upon Terra's holy ground. The crevasses crisscrossing the Pillar, scars from bolter fire, now housed the carved bones of the Imperial Fists' hands, their owners long returned to dust. Part of Shadryss' mission was to bring relics back to the Pillar, but he also was there to recruit and Lysander's presence in this place appeared to him as a sign of Dorn. Lysander's name appears for the first time in the Liber Honorus of the Imperial Fists chapter in 587.M40, when as a sergeant in the 2nd Company, he proved victorious of the heretics of Iduno at the Colonial Bridge. These were his first Imperial Laurels among the many he earned. In 585.M40, he assumed command of the 2nd Company at the end of the boarding and capture of the Eldar cruiser Blood of Khaine. For the three years that the siege of Haddrake Tor lasted, he led the drop pod assault on the high summits. Once the area was secured, teleport homers were set up to allow the 1st Company's terminators to clean up the lower regions. But the defenders called upon impious rituals to destabilize the Warp and several terminators were teleported to the wrong place, some trapped in rock, other appearing above vertiginously deep precipices. Lysander saw Kleitus, the 1st Company's captain, materialize himself half into a rock. Before dying, he handed his thunder hammer, the Fist of Dorn, over to him. Despite the disaster, Lysander refused to retreat and assumed command of the survivors to lead them in the heart of Tor, where he wielded the hammer with terrible efficiency, crushing the heretics and their defenses. During the chapter's reorganization, Lysander was promoted First Captain, Master of the 1st Company, Overseer of the Armory and Commander of the Guard of Phalanx (the gigantic space fortress-monastery of the Imperial Fists). As the Master of the 1st Company, Lysander is involved in the strategic elaboration of the Imperial Fists' operations, and he perfected the tactic of teleporting several terminator squads to battle. His most noteworthy successes were obtained during campaigns against the Alpha Legion in the Jorglud Cluster. The Imperial Fists started with crushing an uprising on Klebendor III, capturing the heretical leader Ialo Vex and his inner circle as they were holding a blasphemous ceremony in Saint Aspira's desecrated temple. Then, guided by the Holy Inquisition, he chased the Alpha Legion to its base, hidden in the asteroids field of the Rathnorn system. The Imperial Fists managed to land terminator boarding squads on the traitors' ship as it was docked. Lysander and his men held out for hours while the Imperial Fists' main force made its way through after a thunderhawk assault. At the peak of the battle, the chaos marines led one last charge which broke through the 1st Company's perimeter, but all they achieved was falling into an ambush and being repelled when Lysander and a few marines flanked them, fighting their way through the ship's walls with chainfists and thunder hammers. The Alpha Legion's warriors fell into total confusion, attacked from every side. In the ship's halls, the terminators were unbeatable, and seven champions of the Dark Gods fell in single combat against Lysander when the heretics, deprived of any and all strategy, tried to save themselves by slaying the enemy leader. Lysander faced all his foes, knowing every second gained would allow reinforcements to intervene. Finally, the staccato of bolters signaled the 3rd Company's arrival, and the traitors fled down their underground lair's sinister tunnels. Lysander and his terminators gave them no respite and hunted them down. Battle raged once more, but the protection and power granted by terminator armor gave the Imperial Fists a decisive advantage. In battle, captain Lysander leads the 1st Company, determined to be the first to fight the enemy and to never fall back. His courage comes close to foolhardiness but his luck has so far favored him. For the Imperial Fists, he's a living proof that only the warrior willing to risk everything can win. "During the most righteous pacification of the heretical uprising on Iduno, Lysander (who in those days was only a sergeant) and his squad bravely held the Colonial Bridge. For nearly fourteen hours, his men and he repelled successive waves of traitors and chaotic rebels who had dared renounce their loyalty to the Emperor to embrace the worship of the Ruinous Powers. Versed in the Rites of Battle, Lysander guided the marines with strength and confidence, ordering efficient and controlled bursts of bolter fire. When the reinforcements arrived, several hours were required to remove the bodies of the Fallen Gods' adepts and make the bridge passable again."-Extract from the Liber Honorus, Chapter of the Imperial Fists, Legiones Astartes "I teleported to battle thirty seven times, and each time I expect to find myself to the Emperor's right. Submitting to this technology puts my faith to the test, and I shall not fail."-Captain Lysander, Imperial Fists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Of War Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 IIRC the first of Bill Kings Ragnar novels features hypno indoctrination and its really interesting. The recruits have loads of knowledge just uploaded into their brains. I'm surprised isn't more explicitly described in the codexes. David Guymer's 'The Eye of Medusa' also makes use of hypno-indoctrination as it details the recruitment of a number of Iron Hands Scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Sigismund was just a dude in the IF legion, and not the 1st captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ficinus Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 In the third edition Eldar codex there is a long, threatening speech about Eldrad Ulthran's power and the destruction of the Mon-Keigh given by an Eldar Ranger to Imperial interrogators. It is without a doubt my favorite piece of Eldar fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 @CMDR_Welles: I believe that change happened when the marine stat line went to T4. Traitor Legionnaires are still T3 in Slaves to Darkness, but maybe it was the Book of the Astronimicon where the change was documented. Other things about the space marines that have changed: assault squads being the most sought after and honored positions in the Chapter marine recon squads (resurrected in Horus Heresy) the Space Wolf homeworld Lucan Misc stuff probably best left in the past teleporter subjects becoming host bodies for daemons skeletal Possesses zoats as Tyranid "scouts" the Horus Heresy as the "First Inter-Legionary War" the only Titan Legions of the Divisio Militaris remaining loyal being on Terra The Emperor "ordered seven entire Marine Chapters, a third of the Legiones Astartes, to destroy Horus and his rebels" the Night Lords being a Khorne chapter Chaos spawn requiring a techmarine (with a frenzy wrist controller) to serve as a handler World Eater librarians and chaplians in a chaos list Misc Eldar items not often seen anymore The Fir Lirithion of the Iyanden craftworld The Fir Dinillainn of the Saim Hann craftworld The Fir Farillescassion of the Biel-Tann craftworld The Fir Iolarion of the Lugannath craftworld Harlequin land raiders Ghost Warriors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfred_the_great Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Zoats; they were cool. The Inquisitiion Wars (by Ian Watson) had some interesting stuff, Ordo Hydra and whatnot. Although the best bit was that the Inquisitor looked exactly like Sean Connery in "Hunt for the Red October"... There is also a bit of fluff about a Blood Angels terminator wearing an Ultramarine helmet and refusing to paint it the "right colours". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Not just a helmet, it was a whole suit of terminator armour they recovered from a hulk and needed to use before they could return it. Every time its original ultramarine colours were painted over the wearer died horribly so the marines told their armourers to leave it in original colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinstryfe Posted January 6, 2018 Author Share Posted January 6, 2018 Not just a helmet, it was a whole suit of terminator armour they recovered from a hulk and needed to use before they could return it. Every time its original ultramarine colours were painted over the wearer died horribly so the marines told their armourers to leave it in original colours. To this day, that bit of fluff still inspires me to paint the odd piece of armour the wrong color, to represent the odd field repair, honour, or gift from a different Chapter's equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soldier of Dorn Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 The fact that despite the Imperial Fists Legion functioning flawlessly as a cohesive whole made of genebred brothers, regardless of planet of origin or past life, despite the fact that they never had any sort of division or such between the Terran and the other parts of the Legion as so many others did, it's shown that root cultural practices were preserved and perhaps even encouraged within the VII Legion in the second of the three Exemplary Battles written about in Extermination. The 3rd Expeditionary Fleet left after repairs had been made, but not before the Imperial Fists had taken the youngest and strongest male warriors of each of the Drift Clans. Of those who survived initiation into the Legion, all were inducted into a single company; the 356th. Over the next century, the 356th Company's reputation for excellence in outer hull void war and ship assaults was without peer, and the clustered star heraldry and tradition of elaborate full body tattoos amongst their warriors still speaks to the traditions of the clans of the Consus Drift. It's a relatively minor paragraph in the book, and hardly critical to the Legion's identity overall, but I find that paragraph, and the implications thereof, fascinating. If Drift Clan void specialists existed, then why not Aranean (Necromundan) urban veterans, or Inwiti winter warriors, or... well, you see where my mind leads. It's absolutely fascinating to me. And that's why it's my favorite minor bit of lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_Dew Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Imperial Guard/Army Dreads, Land speeders, Jump pack squads (they had Destroyer squad armaments first... ok 2 las pistols), Jetbikes, Assault squads, Human Bombs and more abhumans, Mole's and the other transport that went underground. Dreads being vehicles and not always needing a marine to be almost dead to be in one. Hover vehicles being a lot more common. The Necromunda 8th "the Spiders" the re-release of Necromunda was what a month before the IG Dex and no Necromunda Spiders in it?? HERESY i say!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Oh there are just so many but let me name a few: -Jacobus led his War of Faith from the front back in the old 2nd edition codex. He died in poisoned swamps instead of sitting back on a ship and living a decadent life like so many Ecclesiarchy members seem to be written doing. -Canoness Helfire who, along with her order, chose to hold the line against a Tyranid horde so that the last civilian survivors could escape the hive fleet. The last visual confirmation of the Order saw them fighting amongst the swarm despite being outnumbered by millions, if not billions, of Nids. This started a legend that she and her order may be fighting inside the hive fleet itself (and considering how belief works in 40k this could actually happen). Yes, she was later retconned as super-dead but I want to point out that in a universe full of some of the darkest stuff we've ever seen she and her mortal Sisters chose, with no prompting from anyone, to perform a true heroic sacrifice to protect people. -The Sisters have a seat on the High Lords of Terra. It's currently empty due to the last Sister appointed for it disappearing during the holy pilgrimage the Sisters undertake before assuming the position. -Sisters don't just monitor the citizens of the Imperium but the Eccelsiarchy itself and can (and do) outright kill any member of the Ecclesiarchy who is acting in a corrupt manner (so MANY Black Library writers screw this up it's not even funny). -The Exorcist tank was taken from vaults under Terra (honestly who knows why the Emperor put them down there to be preserved) and due to no one known how they work the machine spirit can be temperamental and prone to firing random numbers of shots. The Mechanicus isn't even allowed to touch these tanks (for which there are no replacements for if one is destroyed then there is one less in the Ecclesiarchy's armoury) so chances of having them repaired or mass produced aren't likely. And now some non-Sisters ones: -Imperial Fists lack the ability to spit acid due to geneseed mutation. -Actually let's comment on that one too. People forget that Marines can spit acid. -The Black Dragons (one of the cursed founding chapters) where originally created as a Salamanders successor chapter. Their quirk is their bone spikes they coat with metal and kill things with. -Salamanders are only so dark skinned because of the radiation of their homeworld. There is an organ that controls how dark the skin is in reaction to radiation sources to protect the body and Nocturne is apparently really radioactive. Any Marine who stays there for a long enough time would end up just as dark. -The Celestial Lions ticked off the Inquisition by trying to call BS on them only to get murdered down to the roots of their Chapter to silence them before they could complain to the High Lords of Terra. This included action by "Ork Snipers" who killed their entire chain of command on Armageddon. -Said Lions probably deserved it since their battle cry is "We are the Emperor's pride! Hear us roar!" making a pun that bad deserves it. -Celestial Lions have a history of sitting around a fire and telling stories before a battle, a carry over from their homeworlds. -Raven Guard graduate from being Scouts when they can sneak up on the native ravens of their homeworld and catch them barehanded....before snapping their necks. They continue this practice as Marines (to further hone their skills) and the skulls of the birds they catch this way are worn on chains attached to their armour (and carried back to their homeworld when the bearer dies). -The Sons of Medusa aren't a traditional successor chapter but rather the result of a schism on Mars affecting the Iron Hands chapter and the chapter taking sides in the schism but rather than coming to blows over the ideological differences they formed a new chapter out of half of the group. -The Crimson Fists own a Land Raider who took revenge for the death of its crew by driving itself into an Ork stronghold and killing everything it could. When it ran out of ammo it starting ramming things and running Orks over. It was eventually recovered and its Machine Spirit is a chapter relic now. -TANKRED ENDURES. -As of 6th edition Squats are just abhumans and no longer a seperate race from humans. -The Squat homeworld was on the opposite side of the galaxy from the Nid hivefleet said to eat them. My theory is the Inquisition did it. -In Rogue Trader the Eye of Terror was described more as an actual eye that blinked -Word Bearers used to have a unit with Heavy Bolters called the Teeth of Khorne. -No one has a complete copy of the Codex Astartes (prior to Guilliman's resurrection at least) (according to Helsreach at least) and this makes codex compliant chapters more hilarious in hindsight since it depends on what parts of the codex they have that they're adhereing to (it is a 10,000 year old physical BOOK and books don't age THAT well). -Rogue Traders were originally contracted by the Emperor of Mankind himself to help expand the Imperium and create trade routes to new worlds. -Said contracts where signed with an =I= and a drop of his blood (Arbites series is to thank for this one). -It's never explained why but Horus seemed to be expecting the Emperor to find him when he's discovered. -The Red Hunters are a chapter that is controlled directly by the Inquisition and have their minds wiped after every. single. mission. No, I don't know how their chain of command is supposed to work either since they can taken Chapter Masters and the like just like every other chapter. -Everyone remembers that the Exorcists chapter is a successor to the Grey Knights (which means they have the same genetic lineage of the Emperor as well), but few remember that due to the low survival rate of being possessed by daemons and then driving out the daemon through willpower alone they have to maintain three scout companies to compensate for the low survival rate. They also give Grey Knights some of their recruits. -Most of the Imperium is ignorant of the Heresy as an event, much less that there are Traitor Astartes. This usually bites the Imperium in the backside when spike wearing Astartes land on a planet and the populace mistakes them for loyalists. Basically I could prattle on all day about every little wonky bit of lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 @Fulkes There is no “Canoness Helfire” that I’m aware of. That story sounds like Saint Praxedes (she’s the Sister in my profile picture), since her legend goes basically that way (some say she still fights the Tyranids on Okkasis). Thought there was nothing about her being inside the hive fleet, just rumors her and her Sisters were still fighting on the planet’s surface. She was Canoness of the Order of Our Martyred Lady, but obviously the whole Order wasn’t there since it still exists. Cardinal Armandus Helfire is the Cardinal of Avingor, just “north” of the Eye of Terror. He has a plasma gun and gives inspiring speeches to guardsmen before battles. The Sister who was a High Lord was the Abbess of the Adepta Sororitas, and the last one did go missing, so the seat would be empty. I’m not sure where the fluff about the Exorcist you put here comes from, but the Witch Hunters codex specifically mentions Tech Priests maintaining Exorcists (though this bit sounds interesting) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wargamer Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 In the wake of recent releases, I'd like to submit two pieces of forgotten lore: 1) That the Custodes uniform consists of a helmet, a cape, a thong and five hundred gallons of lube. 2) That xenos factions exist in 40K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 For me, it's the old Necromunda background. The combination of tropes from Westerns, City Noir, Police Procedural, Dungeon Delve, Science-Fiction, Horror, Superheroes, and Greek tragedy. Some absolutely peerless stuff - every single part of it absolutely nails the campy-yet-horrific nature of 40k. Aside from B'Ufi the Vampyre Slayer. That was lame. In the wake of recent releases, I'd like to submit two pieces of forgotten lore: 1) That the Custodes uniform consists of a helmet, a cape, a thong and five hundred gallons of lube. AWAKE MY MASTERS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3L Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 That custodes who get old, give up their armour, put on a cloak and go walkabouts in the galaxy, (like cats, they walk off to die alone) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogun Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Leman Russ was at Tallarn. In the Battle of Rogsburg he jumped onto a Warlord Titan and destroyed it with a punch to its head. (The 3rd Ed. Lion and the Wolf fluff article) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bev'an Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Ref the above landraider, I remember it do all that and then opened its cargo bay, The orks finally thinking yes and obviously the Warboss wants it for himself entered it and then the Landraider shut the door and overloaded the reactor killing the warlord and it’s self. The Machine spirit was recovered as stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Pete Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 The Imperial Army used to have Beastman platoons. The Beastmen were sorry and ashamed for being born mutants, and wanted to make it up to the Emperor by killing as many of His enemies as possible in the hopes that the He would look down on them and forgive them posthumously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 In hindsight I got my 2nd ed characters confused. Praxedes was the one fighting the Hive Fleet, Helfire was either a Cardinel or a Confessor.We also had a Canoness who had a weapon that shot a laser. Celestine was most likely dead at the end of her background lore, dying to a nuked fortress. Sisters kind of have a habit (pun intended) of getting martyred. The Ultramarines had a half-Eldar Librarian at one point. I believe he was retconned into being Tiggy instead. The Blood Angels have nearly been wiped out multiple times (Space Hulk, Space Hulk 2: Blood Soaked Boogaloo, and in their books by James Swallow) which has led to the chapter getting new members (to including existing Marines) from their successor chapters. Lamenters never take their helmets off around other people. It's never clearly explained why, but the Lamenters are ashamed of it (and this is in a universe where the Salamanders are looking more and more like daemons as they keep getting progressively darker and their eyes keep getting redder as GW moves on). Helbrecth wants you to get out of his city. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reckoning Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Helbrecth wants you to get out of his city. :p You mean Grimaldus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 The Imperial Army used to have Beastman platoons. The Beastmen were sorry and ashamed for being born mutants, and wanted to make it up to the Emperor by killing as many of His enemies as possible in the hopes that the He would look down on them and forgive them posthumously. So far as I am aware, this has never been contradicted, and since Gor Half-Horn is now hunting evildoers through the Necromundan underhive, arguably this is still as good canon as ever it was. See the Abhuman Helots rule for 30k as well. Now that Warhammer: Fantasy is gone (a screaming rant for another day), the original rationale for removing Imperial Beastmen (ie, to stop 40k becoming Fantasy in space) is gone, so we might see them coming back. Lamenters never take their helmets off around other people. It's never clearly explained why, but the Lamenters are ashamed of it (and this is in a universe where the Salamanders are looking more and more like daemons as they keep getting progressively darker and their eyes keep getting redder as GW moves on). That was the Angels Sanguine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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