What's your favorite piece of lore that's often forgotten?

[Marshal Rohr]

I think the way the High Marshal is selected is probably the coolest piece of Templar lore that was never mentioned again.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think the way the High Marshal is selected is probably the coolest piece of Templar lore that was never mentioned again.

Enlighten me?

[Marshal Rohr]

To the best of my recollection every crusade stops and they gather for a meeting of the Sword Brethren of each Crusade. Each of the current Marshals competes in a tournament of strategy and martial prowess. The Marshal’s then vote, and the winner can actually be removed from power (this happened to Gerhart of the Lastrati crusade for only executing 1 in 3 bystanders iirc). The winner is crowned High Marshal and inherits the Eternal Crusader - and maybe the old high marshals sword brethren, but I’m not positive.

[Brother Sefiel]

Greetings

 

Red Orb Slicers - ever forgotten Aspect Warriors that were name dropped in 2nd edition, never to be heard again. 

Slicing Orbs of Zandros?

​They have (or at least Zandros has) been mentioned at least twice.

[BitsHammer]

The Dornian Heresy was caused by the arguement on which day one should enjoy tacos: Tuesday or Friday. :P

More seriously, and more canon, the Red Scorpions have a rather unusual twist that hints at them possibly being made from traitor geneseed (and a rather funny bit of blind hypocrisy built into the army). When they came out they were lauded as more faithful to the codex than even the Ultramarines (which is hilarious when you consider the Ultramarines likely have the most complete copy left in the galaxy, while the rest of the Imperium likely has even less complete copies), but at the same time they have such a fear of genetic deviance in their geneseed (claimed to be Ultramarines btw) that they can, and often do, deploy Apothecaries in their Tactical Squads to act as Sergeants. Basically, mix two very specific, but contradictory since one ultimately causes the other to fail in this approach, paths towards perfection (one martial, one genetic) and you have something that smells a lot more like the Emperor's Children than the Ultramarines.

[Willy Pete]

Well, it's Tuesday, obviously.  Taco Friday?  There's no alliteration there!  And that would make it HERESY!

 

Burn all the Heretics who would deny that the Emperor declared Taco Tuesday!!!

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

And let's also not forget that the original background for the Grey Knights had that they had incredibly strict screening for psychic potential, not so they were all psykers, but so that absolutely none of them were, to lessen the risk of daemonic possession.

 

 

I wonder how they went from no psykers, to all psykers then.

 

 

I think it changed when the Daemonhunters book came out, and GW realised that they'd moved towards being "psykers are the best way to defeat Daemons, but also at the most risk from them", like with Force Weapons, etc. Being a non-psyker didn't really give you much benefit in defeating them, just made you less tempting to possess. Logically, it then became that the best choices for the anti-Daemon Grey Knights would be to either make them all Nulls/Pariahs, or to make them powerful, but incredibly shielded, Psykers. As such, we've ended up with Grey Knights that might not be the most powerful Psykers individually, but together can combine into more than the sum of their parts, each shielding and strengthening each other in a kind of psychic feedback-loop.

[gideon stargreave]

"Many"  Grey knights were psykers in the codex imperialis back in the second edition book (and part of "the mysterious second founding", and the accompanying army lists. Back then inquisitors were just about the most powerful human characters in the game and could be incredibly powerful psykers too. Grey knights  were also level one psychers in the 3rd ed book

[Lord_Caerolion]

"Many"  Grey knights were psykers in the codex imperialis back in the second edition book (and part of "the mysterious second founding", and the accompanying army lists. Back then inquisitors were just about the most powerful human characters in the game and could be incredibly powerful psykers too. Grey knights  were also level one psychers in the 3rd ed book

 Apologies, it appears I misremembered. They weren't entirely non-psykers, just mostly. To quote Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness, "They are specially screened to exclude all but the strongest and most resilient psykers, a measure designed to prevent any Daemonic contamination. As a result, very few of the Grey Knights have any psychic power whatsoever". This was then repeated in White Dwarf 114, which stated "Grey Knight Marines are specially screened to exclude all but the strongest and most resilient psykers. Most Knights have no psychic ability at all, and thus are relatively safe from daemonic possession. Some, however, are extremely potent psykers, judged strong and pure enough to pit their powers against creatures from the Warp.

[chapter master 454]

Well, it's Tuesday, obviously.  Taco Friday?  There's no alliteration there!  And that would make it HERESY!

 

Burn all the Heretics who would deny that the Emperor declared Taco Tuesday!!!

 

But tacos aren't even that good. Why bother?

 

Seriously though i believe one piece of lore I like is in relation to a forgotten character from the crimson fists: Cortez. It was an apothecaries account of his well-being and the like with one note being about his skeleton: At some point in his career at that point every bone in his body had been broken at least once except one: His left furtherest out pinky toe bone! Something about that lore just makes me chuckle inside.

[BitsHammer]

I want to point out that this means that he's broken the very, very tiny bones inside his ears as well. I'm more impressed that his pinky toe (the one we all usually stub) is the only one he's left unbroken during his career.

 

Here's one I never knew until today: Raven Guard can't spit acid but Raptors (who are a second founding successor chapter) can. No reason for this is ever explained.

 

On a side note, Imperial Fists are missing the acid spit as well, but I've never seen a nod to this being a thing for Crimson Fists or Black Templars. I admit I could have missed something, but it's something I've always seen as interesting.

[Lord_Caerolion]

All Dorn-derived geneseed lacks the Betchers Gland, as well as the Sus-an Membrane.

 

In regards to the Raven Guard, it had been written back in their Index Astartes article that their geneseed was heavily degraded by the hothousing techniques used by Corax to bring them back to full strength so quickly during the Heresy.

[BitsHammer]

I meant for the Raven Guard/Raptors thing that it's not clear if the Raptors regained theirs after the fact, or if it's thanks to their split off from the Raven Guard potentially sparing their geneseed degradation. That said, both still have the thing where they become so plae their skin is basically transparent with old age, as well as the darkening of hair and eyes.

[Zhiv]

Greetings

Red Orb Slicers - ever forgotten Aspect Warriors that were name dropped in 2nd edition, never to be heard again.

Slicing Orbs of Zandros?

 

​They have (or at least Zandros has) been mentioned at least twice.

 

Right. I recall them from 2nd edition Codex. What would be the other mentions?

[Lord_Caerolion]

I believe Forge World, and the Horus Heresy novels, have confirmed that that particular change always occurred. The issue with the Raptors could be that the Raptors were created from the original hot-housed Marines, somehow. The change to the Raven Guard rebuilding is kinda... not great, and leaves some plot holes.

[Zhiv]

All Dorn-derived geneseed lacks the Betchers Gland, as well as the Sus-an Membrane.

 

In regards to the Raven Guard, it had been written back in their Index Astartes article that their geneseed was heavily degraded by the hothousing techniques used by Corax to bring them back to full strength so quickly during the Heresy.

 

They effectively got a bunch of marines that looked like possessed that were used as shock troops and to justify quoting A.E Poe 'Nevermore'.

[Leif Bearclaw]

I meant for the Raven Guard/Raptors thing that it's not clear if the Raptors regained theirs after the fact, or if it's thanks to their split off from the Raven Guard potentially sparing their geneseed degradation. That said, both still have the thing where they become so plae their skin is basically transparent with old age, as well as the darkening of hair and eyes.

 

Aren't the Raptors (the Green Armpoured Reasonable Marines from Taros and Badab, rather than Corax's frankenstein creations) meant to be founded from a force of RG Marines that were just going through training when the Heresy went down? If so it's entirely plausible they were spared the degradation of the 'mainline' RG gene-seed by already being Marines when the experiments went on. So they were made with good quality, pre-Heresy gene-seed, and if they didn't take adulterated RG stock with them when they split, relying on their own Progenoids etc. then the post tampering RG gene-seed may never have entered circulation with the Chapter. Would make sense to me.

 

[Claws and Effect]

I meant for the Raven Guard/Raptors thing that it's not clear if the Raptors regained theirs after the fact, or if it's thanks to their split off from the Raven Guard potentially sparing their geneseed degradation. That said, both still have the thing where they become so plae their skin is basically transparent with old age, as well as the darkening of hair and eyes.

It's because the Raptors are the descendents of Corax's successful genetic tinkering. Since he used the pure strain of his own geneseed to make them, they lack a lot of the flaws of other successors. The other 2 Second Founding chapters were drawn from the Raven Guard he had left at the time, so they share the common Raven Guard flaws.

 

The Alpha Legion did tamper with the geneseed, but not until after the first successful batch was completed.

 

I don't know if there's any official record of it, but in my headcanon the Raptors were named to honor the mutated Astartes Corax euthanized in order to remember their contributions. They fought right alongside the normal Astartes and performed admirably.

[Guest Triszin]

why isn't Corax's Monster AStartes not cited by cawl/Robby G when talking about Primaris?

 

Corax made marines faster and they were huge compared to normal marines after the heresy to beat back the traitors.

 

I think people would've beenmore open to the Primaris if it was based off of that template, and made references to Corax and his research

[Zhiv]

why isn't Corax's Monster AStartes not cited by cawl/Robby G when talking about Primaris?

 

Corax made marines faster and they were huge compared to normal marines after the heresy to beat back the traitors.

 

I think people would've beenmore open to the Primaris if it was based off of that template, and made references to Corax and his research

 

That's actually a very good point. They could have noted that Cawl improved Corax's work - basing his research on his.  They could have mentioned failures, and eventual breakthroughs. 

 

But I guess the fluff point is so obscure that GW writers forgot it themselves too.

[Brother Tyler]

On the original version of the Grey Knights...
 

The Grey Knights are fully as effective as any other Marine Chapter. They are specially screened to exclude all but the strongest and most resilient psykers, a measure designed to prevent any Daemonic contamination. As a result, very few of the Grey Knights have any psychic power whatsoever...

This was prior to the introduction of tactical dreadnought armour, so the Grey Knights were just a set of Space Marine army list options with the only psykers being the Librarian choice.

Grey Knights Terminators came later, with their Nemesis force halberds and swords, broadening the number of psykers within the Chapter.
 

Seriously though i believe one piece of lore I like is in relation to a forgotten character from the crimson fists: Cortez. It was an apothecaries account of his well-being and the like with one note being about his skeleton: At some point in his career at that point every bone in his body had been broken at least once except one: His left furtherest out pinky toe bone! Something about that lore just makes me chuckle inside.

853.M41. During the decisive moments of the Battle of Steel Cross, Captain Cortez single-handedly slew the Ork Warlord and his entire bodyguard. Cortez had managed to disarm the Ork leader with a twist of his torso after the Ork's sword had become embedded in his ribs.

867.M41. Despite suffering seventeen wounds, including a stabbing wound puncturing one of his hearts, and two serious wounds from enemy heavy weapons. Captain Cortez managed to break through Eldar lines and complete his mission successfully.

892.M41. Captain Cortez defended the breach in Fortress Maladon's wall for twenty-one hours of constant fighting despite overwhelming odds and the loss of his whole squad to several enemy attacks.

903.M41. Captain Cortez fought through the entire Kardian six week campaign without supplies after they had been lost to enemy fire during deployment. He attributed his survival to the Emperor's benevolence which nourished his body better than any food or drink would have.

Extract from the record of Captain Cortez, page 447 of 512

That's just the teaser. I included it because it was the lead-in to the later lore (and disarming an Ork in the manner that Cortez did is badass). The lore chapter master 454 is referring to is...
 

It's been my privilege to fight side by side with Captain Cortez since the Battle of Steel Cross back in eight-five-three. In that time, I've seen him surpass virtually everything the Apothecariate taught me about the augmented physiology of the Adeptus Astartes. To my knowledge, only two of the small bones in his right foot are still intact. The rest of his skeleton has been shattered at one time or another, and most of his body is covered with a thick layer of scar tissue. I've seen him lead a charge into a breach with a broken back, fight for 6 weeks without food or water, and rouse his men for one last desperate push with four-fifths of his lifeblood pooled around his feet. There's something else there, something keeping him alive when logic dictates that he should have died long ago. I can only conclude the Emperor has him marked for a grand fate indeed.

-Apothecary Ruillus of the Crimson Fists Fourth Battle Company

 

That was the article that was published in White Dwarf Magazine when Citadel gave us the infamous disco Cortez miniature (he's staying alive).

Switching gears...
 

The issue with the Raptors could be that the Raptors were created from the original hot-housed Marines, somehow.

It's because the Raptors are the descendents of Corax's successful genetic tinkering. Since he used the pure strain of his own geneseed to make them, they lack a lot of the flaws of other successors. The other 2 Second Founding chapters were drawn from the Raven Guard he had left at the time, so they share the common Raven Guard flaws.

...

I don't know if there's any official record of it, but in my headcanon the Raptors were named to honor the mutated Astartes Corax euthanized in order to remember their contributions. They fought right alongside the normal Astartes and performed admirably.

Where are you guys getting some of this stuff?
 

Apocryphal legend suggests that the Raptors were drawn from a company of new initiates training on the Raven Guard home world of Deliverance at the time of the infamous drop site massacre that laid the Raven Guard waste, and were spared some of the darker events that befell the Raven Guard as they attempted to rebuild.

His Legion shattered [after the drop site massacre], Corax returned to Deliverance with orders to rebuild it as quickly as possible. It was a bleak time for the Primarch of the Raven Guard; the Imperium was teetering on the brink of collapse and desperately needed brave warriors, but he had none to give. A desperate situation called for desperate measures, and Corax locked himself within the shadowed chambers of the Ravenspire's Librarius to pour [sic] over volumes of forgotten lore in search of a solution. His researches led him back to the earliest days of genetic manipulation, when accelerated Zygote-harvesting techniques were used to create the first enhanced warriors with which the Emperor had long ago pacified Terra. Corax realized that this process could be modified to produce full-grown Space Marines at a frightening rate. But the ancient tomes also warned of the terrible dangers involved and the unspeakable monsters that could result. Though he knew he risked destroying his Legion, he reluctantly ordered the Apothecaries to begin the process.

Of the Apothecaries' first creations, nothing is known for sure. The Raven Guard's records have been sealed with oaths and sigils of unspeakable power, and none of the members of the Chapter will speak of those blighted days.

So assuming the apocryphal evidence is correct (and nothing in the Forge Worlds books that I've found contradicts it), the Raptors weren't in any way a result of Corax's genetic experimentation and their gene-seed upon being founded was comparable to the other 2nd Founding Successors of the XIXth Legion.

And the source of their name has never been disclosed or even hinted at in official sources that I've consulted. More importantly, other than a Space Wolves source referring to the abominations as the "Weregeld," there are no known Raven Guard references to the abominations or what the XIXth Legion may have called them. The Raptors' Chapter badge bears a similarity to (but is not identical to) the bird of prey heraldry used by members of the XIXth Legion prior to the legion being reunited with its primarch (see page 140 of The Horus Heresy Book Three - Extermination). That imagery is frequently referred to as a "raptor" symbol in the various Horus Heresy books.

[Spinsanity]

 

Where are you guys getting some of this stuff?

 

Apocryphal legend suggests that the Raptors were drawn from a company of new initiates training on the Raven Guard home world of Deliverance at the time of the infamous drop site massacre that laid the Raven Guard waste, and were spared some of the darker events that befell the Raven Guard as they attempted to rebuild.

His Legion shattered [after the drop site massacre], Corax returned to Deliverance with orders to rebuild it as quickly as possible. It was a bleak time for the Primarch of the Raven Guard; the Imperium was teetering on the brink of collapse and desperately needed brave warriors, but he had none to give. A desperate situation called for desperate measures, and Corax locked himself within the shadowed chambers of the Ravenspire's Librarius to pour [sic] over volumes of forgotten lore in search of a solution. His researches led him back to the earliest days of genetic manipulation, when accelerated Zygote-harvesting techniques were used to create the first enhanced warriors with which the Emperor had long ago pacified Terra. Corax realized that this process could be modified to produce full-grown Space Marines at a frightening rate. But the ancient tomes also warned of the terrible dangers involved and the unspeakable monsters that could result. Though he knew he risked destroying his Legion, he reluctantly ordered the Apothecaries to begin the process.

 

Of the Apothecaries' first creations, nothing is known for sure. The Raven Guard's records have been sealed with oaths and sigils of unspeakable power, and none of the members of the Chapter will speak of those blighted days.

So assuming the apocryphal evidence is correct (and nothing in the Forge Worlds books that I've found contradicts it), the Raptors weren't in any way a result of Corax's genetic experimentation and their gene-seed upon being founded was comparable to the other 2nd Founding Successors of the XIXth Legion.

 

And the source of their name has never been disclosed or even hinted at in official sources that I've consulted. More importantly, other than a Space Wolves source referring to the abominations as the "Weregeld," there are no known Raven Guard references to the abominations or what the XIXth Legion may have called them. The Raptors' Chapter badge bears a similarity to (but is not identical to) the bird of prey heraldry used by members of the XIXth Legion prior to the legion being reunited with its primarch (see page 140 of The Horus Heresy Book Three - Extermination). That imagery is frequently referred to as a "raptor" symbol in the various Horus Heresy books.

I guess you need to take a look at Deliverance Lost...

[Ioldanach]

Ah, there are so many bits and pieces of tasty lore that has been forgotten or supplanted over the years that it's hard to pick just one. I don't know if this is my "favorite," but it's a pretty obscure piece of lore:
 
(From Book of the Astronomicon (1988))
 
"One unit which is unique to the Whitescars is the Souldrinkers. This is a special Assault group of which all the members are veteran hand-to-hand combat specialists. The number of squads in the group varies but there is normally at least one available to the Commander. All of the Souldrinkers have Champion status and are armed with Power Swords and Refractor fields in addition to their Powered armour. They are drawn from the ranks of the normal companies and represent those Marines who have been particularly successful over the course of previous battles. The Souldrinkers have full Company status but rarely have more than 3 squads extant and do not have any higher officers. The squad leaders (Sergeants) report directly to the Lieutenant Commander. The Souldrinkers have their own distinctive shoulder badges and honour banners and it is every Whitescar's ambition to be chosen for the unit."
 
This was before the Soul Drinkers became a separate chapter that fought at the second Siege of Terra during the Age of Apostasy (and later became renegades); and before the White Scars became a bike-oriented chapter. 

[M@verik115]

So... so... much. 
Making me remember is bound to bring about a lot of melancholy. 

[BitsHammer]

Mention the Sisters and Black Templars and barely anyone notices. Mention the Raven Guard and their successors and suddenly you get ambushed. :P

 

@Ioldanach did I let something out of the bottle I'm going to regret later?

 

Okay, well since I've got the Sons of Corax here, might as well follow up with a Raptor fact: when their home planet, located on the Eye of Terror back before, you know, the galaxy broke, was lost sometime between the 4th and 5th Black Crusades the chapter was presumed lost before they reappeared at full chapter strength with a new home world they call Prime (to hide it's location for fear concern of losing it again it seems). This has lead to a rather awkward problem as the Imperium (specifically the Administratum I believe) wants their forwarding address for mail and the like but the Raptors won't give it to them.

 

To my knowledge, Imperial Fists, are the only chapter to currently have the privilege to draw recruits from Terra. Though due to the High Lords of Terra being rather concerned involving the past downfalls of the Space Marines (the Heresy, the Badab War, basically every chapter that has gone traitor post-heresy) no Marines are kept on Terra in its defense, meaning that it's basically the only chapter home world not actually protected by the chapter in question. Imperial Fists apparently do make pilgrimages to Terra though (perhaps to study the seige work of Dorn to see how a master approaches defending a valuable position).