Thunderfire Cannons

[Firepower]

So the topic was brought up in the Templar subforum, but I figured it'd be useful to get a general C:SM opinion. 

 

Are Thunderfires good, broadly speaking?  Is the damage output and/or Tremor Shells worth the price tag?  I'm not generally a fan of random shot counts, but using multiple dice ensures at least it doesn't suffer from stats like the Vindicator: a range of 4-12 shots is a helluva lot better than 1-3, arguably even with the difference in power.  And with the number of baddies that can fly across the table, Tremor Shells seem like a good counter, even if you can only fire one per turn.

 

Thoughts?  As for me, I just bought a pair of Kromlech equivalents and intend to use them  as fire support for a largely assault/aggressive army.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Firepower

[UnkyHamHam]

I've played one game against Admech with my thunderfire. I consistently rolled low on shots the entire game. Only getting 6 shots once and 4-5 every other turn. Not even sure I managed to do any wounds. BUT, the Tremor shell strategem is pure gold! I'd save a CP to use it every turn if possible. Slowing down robots or sicarans was invaluable stalling them from reaching my firing line.

 

If you keep the Thunderfire parked behind a predator you can have the Techmarine perform repairs too.

 

I will continue to take it for the strategem alone, counting any dmg it does as bonus.

[Ipsen]

The shooting out of it is pretty crap but it just a bonus on top of the strategem. Halving the movement of a key scoring/cc unit is often akin to straight up removing it from the game. Pretty useless into a gunline though.

[CCE1981]

Tremor Shells don’t affect anything that can fly.

 

Other than that I have used it to ruin the day of foot sloggers. It is entertaining to stop that huge line of nurglungs in the front that are there to absorb shots, forcing your opponent to trip over his front lines. It’s lack of really good shooting actually helps it in that regard.

 

121 pts for the artillary piece, and Techmarine (who must stay within 6” or 3” to operate it) with a full servo harnessharness. I don’t know, it is kinda hard to judge what it truly accomplish lished for me.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

My gaming experience in this edition is admittedly limited, but so far I'm a fan of my TFCs.  I've run a pair of them in a few games and they've put in sterling service so far.  I haven't used the Tremor Shells yet, but I'm looking forward to trying that out.  In any case, I post up a Venerable Dreadnought with lascannons next to the TFC.  Between the two FNP rolls and the TFC Gunner's repair rolls, that Dreadnought tends to last a while.

[Captain Idaho]

I don't like Thunderfire Cannons. They just don't perform well enough to justify their existence to me, when I can get a Whirlwind instead.

 

They need a big points drop. Why they have a full Servo harness I don't know. Since when is that flamer and plasma cutter useful? Sure they will be one anecdote but the proof is in the pudding - if you could save points not taking the Servo Harness you would.

[Myrkul]

The stratagem alone is worth taking at least one to bog down a hight threat enemy unit or chaff screens etc.

 

Outside the stratagem rapier carriers w/ quad morters are 35 points cheaper, do the same thing at the Thunderfire cannon (itself) but have access to shatter shells for better flexability as good direct fire option for vehicles or multi wound models.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Myrkul

[Ishagu]

I don't rate them.

The Quad Launcher is better imo, and cheaper to buy and field.

[Firepower]

I can't find the data sheet for the Quad Launcher in the Imperial Armor index, just the weapon stats and point cost.  Also, does taking FW stuff mess with army/detachment composition, or does it simply count as just another unit? 

 

It does seem meaner, but doesn't have the Tremor Shell option.  But since I'm using a counts-as model, I could always run it as either.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Firepower

[Myrkul]

Quad launcher was FAQ’d in.

 

And yeah they look similar enough it really doesnt matter.

[Claws and Effect]

I can't find the data sheet for the Quad Launcher in the Imperial Armor index, just the weapon stats and point cost. Also, does taking FW stuff mess with army/detachment composition, or does it simply count as just another unit?

 

It does seem meaner, but doesn't have the Tremor Shell option. But since I'm using a counts-as model, I could always run it as either.

FW stuff only makes a difference if where you are playing disallows it. Some tournaments will either not allow it st all or limit it. For example, I played in a tournament a while back that only allowed 1 FW unit total in your list.

[Firepower]

So, the Thunderfire has Tremor Shells and a Techmarine, which helps if you wanna keep tanks nearby for a backfield gunline but otherwise offers nothing special.  But it's also a chunk more expensive and not that great of damage output.  Meanwhile the Quad is cheaper and can hit harder, but no Tremors and just 2 regular dudes as gunners.

 

Seems like both have their merits, it just comes down to what you want/need them to do and your point economy.

[Ishagu]

 

I can't find the data sheet for the Quad Launcher in the Imperial Armor index, just the weapon stats and point cost. Also, does taking FW stuff mess with army/detachment composition, or does it simply count as just another unit?

 

It does seem meaner, but doesn't have the Tremor Shell option. But since I'm using a counts-as model, I could always run it as either.

FW stuff only makes a difference if where you are playing disallows it. Some tournaments will either not allow it st all or limit it. For example, I played in a tournament a while back that only allowed 1 FW unit total in your list.

FW has been adjusted in CA. No reason to limit anything now - It's perfectly reasonable.

[Firepower]

Let's not go down that rabbit hole again...

[Captain Idaho]

As said, FW is an acquired taste. If your gaming community allows it or not is up to you to determine.

 

Regardless, if you think you need the Tremor shells and can spare the CP, it might have a use. If you'd rather the CP for other stuff then simply don't bother.

 

Unless you like the model in which case go for it because that's the real reason to play :)

[Jacques Corbin]

Nah, I like it in an all comers list. I average 7 shots with it, and Tremor shells is good for things like Cultists, Orks Boys, and small bug Nids. I set a Venerable Dreadnought with Twin Lascannons and Missile Launcher next to him, just to be a jerk, but y'know Raven Guard CT and all. The gunner can fix the Dreadnought or the cannon, and the opponent has to destroy them both before shooting the gunner, because he is a character. Hell, I am tempted to add a Hunter/Stalker to my collection just because it's a T8 vehicle that blocks LoS. Not to mention all the units that have the Fly keyword, like anything with a Jump Pack, jet bikes, winged things, anything else that is a skimmer/speeder/hover tank, and of course fliers.

 

Also, the range is pretty much table. My TFC is almost always the last gun I shoot in my shooting phase. Ask @Acebauer, it is pretty good at clean-up. In the real world, artillery is a softener, but in 40K, you shoot the weapons that have the most target options last. And the TFC can hit anything on the table. Even if it does not finish its target off, it will make the morale check even harder for units of infantry, or it may just degrade a vehicle.

 

So, I like the unit, I wish I had 2 more.

 

Also, thanks to @Acebauer for a great game on Veteran's Day, and it was because I made the drive that I met my now girlfriend, and we are discussing moving in together. Happy new years everyone!

Edited December 31, 2017 by Jacques Corbin

[Ebon Hand]

I've used the Thunderfire a few times and it has performed admirably. As has already been said, the tremor shells really slow down any foot unit significantly and the Techmarine is a capable fighter in his own right.

 

I think the times you want to look at the Thunderfire Cannon are when you need relatively cheap heavy support slots filled and when you are playing a more defensive or hybrid defense list. It's also one of our sources of indirect fire besides the Whirlwind.

 

The great thing about it is the tremor shells work on hit, so it's pretty reliable in having an effect on enemy mobility.

[Firepower]

I'm curious to know how it will work out in an offensive list.  Although that's a rather umbrella term, so there's likely no singular answer.  But with my precious In-Your-Face-Explody-Doom-Bawx Vindicators relegated to squirt guns on treads, I need the new heavy support

Edited January 12, 2018 by Firepower

[Ebon Hand]

I'm a Black Templar as well, so I know that if your list is sufficiently aggressive the Thunderfire won't take much heat, especially if it's out of line of sight. However, cheap/tough flying units will give it trouble (ie Plague Drone type things) as they can harass it then rejoin fighting elsewhere with their fast movement.

 

I think the main thing to compare it to is a Whirlwind with Castellan launcher. The Whirlwind will do similar anti-infantry but better against T3 and with no slowing strategem for a little less cost. The Thunderfire will do a similar role but for 17 points more you get a smaller silhouette, some cc ability and repair from the Techmarine (comes into play fairly often in my experience) and that -1 ap. It's not bad if that's what you're looking to add into your force.

[Firepower]

The Thunderfire will do a similar role but for 17 points more you get a smaller silhouette, some cc ability and repair from the Techmarine (comes into play fairly often in my experience) and that -1 ap.

 

Oddly enough it hadn't even occurred to me that the Cannon counts as something he can repair.  For some reason it didn't register as an actual vehicle in my brain, and I had to actually go see if it had the VEHICLE keyword and double check.  I think my assumption was ARTILLERY meant not-VEHICLE. 

 

I've neither long range tanks or long range dreads, so unless the LRC decides to chill out in deployment for a turn or two, the cannon's all he's gonna be smacking about with that fixer-upper-claw.

 

As an aside, while it is 1 less strength than the Castellan, it has that -1 ap, but also a minimum of 4 shots rather than 2.  And slightly less range, but 60" should still cover damn near all of the table.  

Edited January 13, 2018 by Firepower

[Claws and Effect]

I'm looking into a Land Raider Achilles.

 

Why is that relevant to this discussion?

 

Because the main gun can be fired with the same profile as a Thunderfire, in a T8 19 wound body with a 4++.

 

I plan on parking it in my backfield with my Techmarine warlord hiding between the tracks behind it ;)

[Firepower]

...tradesies?

 

:teehee:

[Ishagu]

I'm looking into a Land Raider Achilles.

 

Why is that relevant to this discussion?

 

Because the main gun can be fired with the same profile as a Thunderfire, in a T8 19 wound body with a 4++.

 

I plan on parking it in my backfield with my Techmarine warlord hiding between the tracks behind it ;)

The main gun is actually a Quad Mortar

[Firepower]

That explains the multi-meltas.  Damned if that isn't a point blank tank hunter.  The thing could kneecap a Titan.  :lol:

[Captain Idaho]

I'm actually starting to see the Thunderfire as a reasonable artillery piece, if a little underwhelming.

 

In my view it is still about 25pts too expensive or needs an extra D3 shots, but I can see the merit of putting accurate S5 shots across the table out of line of sight.

 

Just wanted to update folk. Proof that healthy debate does work.