Thousand Sons preorder January.27

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

Considering the amount of CPs my opponents spend when they play me I think the helm is an auto include for me.

Totally agree, even if your opponent just has the standard 6 that still stat wise going to be 2 you gain during the game.

 

Which even IF you spent a point to gain a second relic; pays itself and pays a dividend barring bad luck every single roll. Even if you get only ONE you still make back your investment.

 

Its an auto-include in most lists. Ironically despite all the belly-aching across the internet and lamentations of the Sons players (ironic considering the subject matter in question) I think that Rubrics and Scarab Occult both have defined places in our lists. Vets of the Long War fixes some major issues either unit had, and rubrics no longer require a Rhino if you dont want it.

 

I'm going to try 10/20/30 Scarabs/Rubrics/Goats and then fill with other stuff as desired.

 

20 Rubrics with Prescience, Long War, and a Character aura can destroy 3 10 man GEQ squads in a single shooting phase before charging across a broad front to lock down survivors if you get lucky or want to invest Warptime or CP on the charge.

 

Goats can then get thrown in with the Crystal or more CP and termies drop to reinforce. Characters can be flying DP's, guys on disks, or Termie sorcerers (spells only for the last one...no aura).

 

Hilariously, we might actually be able to make decent use of Linebreaker Bombardment. Roll 3 Vindis up with 2DP's behind them. DP's provide rerolls and keep them in business with Weaver, Glamour, and Temporal Manip. They also eat chargers who try to lock the Vindis.

 

Tzaangors for a screen and the Helm to feed stolen CP right into Bombardments while Gaze of Fate rerolls key effect rolls for Bombardment or damage rolls for the guns.

 

Would be nice to try once to see if there's anything to it.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

 

Considering the amount of CPs my opponents spend when they play me I think the helm is an auto include for me.

Totally agree, even if your opponent just has the standard 6 that still stat wise going to be 2 you gain during the game.

 

Which even IF you spent a point to gain a second relic; pays itself and pays a dividend barring bad luck every single roll. Even if you get only ONE you still make back your investment.

 

Its an auto-include in most lists. Ironically despite all the belly-aching across the internet and lamentations of the Sons players (ironic considering the subject matter in question) I think that Rubrics and Scarab Occult both have defined places in our lists. Vets of the Long War fixes some major issues either unit had, and rubrics no longer require a Rhino if you dont want it.

 

I'm going to try 10/20/30 Scarabs/Rubrics/Goats and then fill with other stuff as desired.

 

20 Rubrics with Prescience, Long War, and a Character aura can destroy 3 10 man GEQ squads in a single shooting phase before charging across a broad front to lock down survivors if you get lucky or want to invest Warptime or CP on the charge.

 

Goats can then get thrown in with the Crystal or more CP and termies drop to reinforce. Characters can be flying DP's, guys on disks, or Termie sorcerers (spells only for the last one...no aura).

 

Hilariously, we might actually be able to make decent use of Linebreaker Bombardment. Roll 3 Vindis up with 2DP's behind them. DP's provide rerolls and keep them in business with Weaver, Glamour, and Temporal Manip. They also eat chargers who try to lock the Vindis.

 

Tzaangors for a screen and the Helm to feed stolen CP right into Bombardments while Gaze of Fate rerolls key effect rolls for Bombardment or damage rolls for the guns.

 

Would be nice to try once to see if there's anything to it.

 

 

I see someone is a fan of the "Order of Ruin" ;-) 

[Heliomanes]

I'll test out the terminator sorcerer myself as a supporting HQ. Give him the black crystal, and he'll deep strike in to teleport my rubricae blob out of melee and into position for another rapid fire session. That way you have a surefire way to get the crystal and a few support spells in where you need them once per game. Seems like a good use of one of the mandatory hq slots.

[Gree]

Most of the synergy in this book rewards Tzaangors. We don't have any Rubric-exclusive strategems. It is pretty much Codex Tzaangors.

 

Still, it's more than I expected for Thousand Sons. I think this time I will take the plunge.

 

Yea, it matches the kit, but just like the scarab sorcerer-nobody in his sane mind would. and its a rather dick move toward anyone who modeled them with just a sword based on the FAQ that said they can take force swords instead.

I plan to model at least one Exalted with a staff+sword combo, if only for the reason it looks cool.

 

Though, if you're looking for a gameplay reason for it, Seer's Bane replaces a Power Sword, so that's the only way to get that Relic on an Exalted Sorcerer.

[Archaeinox]

Didn't even occur to me about the terminator sorcerer getting +2 on warptime if I need to make that happen.. Will be nice

[Paladin777]

I’m running him with prescience and warptime and whichever is more important will be cast first. It’s going to be nice being able to cast both of them on 5’s or 4 and 6!

 

Also running a webway ru-brick of 20 and a 10 man SOT block for a 1-2 punch or hammer-and-anvil as needed.

[Khalan]

So terminator sorcs get +1 to their first cast every turn?

[Commissar K.]

Didn't even occur to me about the terminator sorcerer getting +2 on warptime if I need to make that happen.. Will be nice

Oh, didn't mention it but yeah I think TS is full of potent combo's, one of which offcourse is also focused around Warptime :D 

 

Another thing I personally would be excited about is the great ability to deepstrike-bubblewrap Rubric Marines with all manners of Tzeentch Daemons. In addition Screamers provide some very potent melee support if you'd ask me.

[BoomWolf]

Most of the synergy in this book rewards Tzaangors. We don't have any Rubric-exclusive strategems. It is pretty much Codex Tzaangors.

 

Still, it's more than I expected for Thousand Sons. I think this time I will take the plunge.

 

Yea, it matches the kit, but just like the scarab sorcerer-nobody in his sane mind would. and its a rather dick move toward anyone who modeled them with just a sword based on the FAQ that said they can take force swords instead.

I plan to model at least one Exalted with a staff+sword combo, if only for the reason it looks cool.

 

Though, if you're looking for a gameplay reason for it, Seer's Bane replaces a Power Sword, so that's the only way to get that Relic on an Exalted Sorcerer.

 

 

 

Seer's bane really isn't very good though. paying extra points AND the relic slot for it feels...bad.

Honestly, even the pistol may be better than seer's base.

 

You get the crystal and helm every game, no question.

You never ever take scrolls or staff.

Then its pistol or bane, both costs you 2 extra CP to get, and I doubt they'll produce the same value as 2 more executions of VotLW or anything else of the sort.

 

 

So terminator sorcs get +1 to their first cast every turn?

 

 

Only if you take the familiar, and without knowing how much the familiar costs I can't answer that.

So terminator sorcs get +1 to their first cast every turn?

 

[Gree]

Seer's bane really isn't very good though. paying extra points AND the relic slot for it feels...bad.

Honestly, even the pistol may be better than seer's base.

 

You get the crystal and helm every game, no question.

You never ever take scrolls or staff.

Then its pistol or bane, both costs you 2 extra CP to get, and I doubt they'll produce the same value as 2 more executions of VotLW or anything else of the sort.

Actually, I'm quite interested in running Seer's Bane if I can. I've always liked the idea of the weapon since it got introduced in 7th, but I never had time to start Thousand Sons.

 

I am perfectly fine with forgoing either Crystal or the Helm I favor of running the character that I want to run.

[Arachnofiend]

Nice thing about Seer's Bane is that you don't have to pick the relic you spend CP on until the game begins, I suppose; it won't be worth it most of the time, but in the matchups where it'd be really good it's available to you.

[MoGuy]

Thoughts on the Mutalith so far? If I look at it as a CC monster I am a bit disappointed since it is directly competing with the Maulerfiend which just packs more punch in melee. But if I look at it as a (de)buffing force-multiplier it is quite nice. However I feel like it is somewhat squishy. Sure 14 wounds at T7 are nothing to sneer at but with only a 4+/5++ it's nothing that a single Discopred could kill alone or at least severely cripple. And running multiple Beasts doesn't fit my aesthetics since they are all mono-pose. ._.

 

I'll try running mine with a Maulerfiend at its side and two Helbrutes in the back with LC+ML. Hopefully the Maulerfiend catches some fire so that the Beast's aura can come into effect for at least two times.

 

That it doubles the range of its aura if it is at half health is quite nice. Dealing 1 MW to all enemies in 18" should be fun.

[Prot]

Magnus has a 2+ save against Perils wounds... Just found that out. I really like what they did with him specifically in the codex.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I’m running him with prescience and warptime and whichever is more important will be cast first. It’s going to be nice being able to cast both of them on 5’s or 4 and 6!

 

Also running a webway ru-brick of 20 and a 10 man SOT block for a 1-2 punch or hammer-and-anvil as needed.

 

I have much the same thought process. 

 

Hah! Ru-Brick; What you did thar...I see it. 

 

Most of my lists are coming to a very good level of CP (7/8/9 depending) so plopping a huge blob of Rubricae down and VOTLW....unleash hell....

 

I have a feeling scouts and assassins and other "infiltration" style units will be used a fair bit when people play us since we have so many deepstrike tricks, they will need to zone us out or the Rubrics or SOT will drop in and immediately obliterate a squad or tank on average rolls. 

[Gree]

Nice thing about Seer's Bane is that you don't have to pick the relic you spend CP on until the game begins, I suppose; it won't be worth it most of the time, but in the matchups where it'd be really good it's available to you.

 

I'm not a competitive player. I play with a small circle of friends and acquaintances at my local gaming store. Everything I say about army construction is pretty much based around my local meta and personal tastes. In that respect, I have a bunch of ideas of how to run a Seer's Bane Exalted Sorcerer.

 

That said, I can understand the concerns and tastes of people who play in a more competitive environment. It's just not for me.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Nice thing about Seer's Bane is that you don't have to pick the relic you spend CP on until the game begins, I suppose; it won't be worth it most of the time, but in the matchups where it'd be really good it's available to you.

Heh....almost auto-take if you end up against Black Legion. "You're all Ld 9? AWESOME!!"

[Sonoftherubric21]

I dont personally get it: Seersbane looks great to me. 

 

Any character you come up against, any elite squads you engage, and any of the bigger badder vehicles you can think of all apply to seer's bane. 

Toss a Diabolic strength (which the model carrying it should have innately if your paying attention!) and youve got 5 (base exalted attack stat is 4 yes?) str 10 swings, hitting on a 2+ with re-roll, str 10, -3 ap D3, with STR 10 you are wounding a large number of targets on 2's, and almost all vehciles on 3's, if you happen to engage a particularly tough vehicle and need it crippled spend 1 cp for VOTLW, you are now wounding T8 on 2's. Tear the dang tracks off that tank. 

I dont get how that is "Weak". I quite like it for the potential it holds. 

Added bonus; the sword does not replace the stave, so if you go into weaklings or runts then you still have the choice between a -3 ap sword, or the multi-damage stave with -1 ap and higher base strength. 

 

Of course one thing to keep in mind is the Helm of Third Eye is basically a mandatory choice due to paying itself off, and us being relatively CP hungry as an army. I can often see me spending 3 CP for getting all 3 relics on the table. Dark Matter Crystal, the Bane, and the Helm.  

To be fair statistically in an average game assuming average rolls stats your looking at it returning 2 of the 3 points you have spent on average. net loss being 1 CP. for 3 relics. 

Gives one of our exalted some "kick" in melee, and if hes the warlord can end up with a 4++ innate. which is not bad for an assassin. 
 

*random side note edit:* anyone else think that Exalted and Scarab Sorcerers should be eligible for +1 attack if duel-carrying stave/sword? Stupid GW design convention. 

[Skerr]

 

Seer's bane really isn't very good though. paying extra points AND the relic slot for it feels...bad.

Honestly, even the pistol may be better than seer's base.

 

You get the crystal and helm every game, no question.

You never ever take scrolls or staff.

Then its pistol or bane, both costs you 2 extra CP to get, and I doubt they'll produce the same value as 2 more executions of VotLW or anything else of the sort.

Actually, I'm quite interested in running Seer's Bane if I can. I've always liked the idea of the weapon since it got introduced in 7th, but I never had time to start Thousand Sons.

 

I am perfectly fine with forgoing either Crystal or the Helm I favor of running the character that I want to run.

Agreed. It comes down to preferences.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

 

 

Considering the amount of CPs my opponents spend when they play me I think the helm is an auto include for me.

Totally agree, even if your opponent just has the standard 6 that still stat wise going to be 2 you gain during the game.

 

Which even IF you spent a point to gain a second relic; pays itself and pays a dividend barring bad luck every single roll. Even if you get only ONE you still make back your investment.

 

Its an auto-include in most lists. Ironically despite all the belly-aching across the internet and lamentations of the Sons players (ironic considering the subject matter in question) I think that Rubrics and Scarab Occult both have defined places in our lists. Vets of the Long War fixes some major issues either unit had, and rubrics no longer require a Rhino if you dont want it.

I'm going to try 10/20/30 Scarabs/Rubrics/Goats and then fill with other stuff as desired.

 

20 Rubrics with Prescience, Long War, and a Character aura can destroy 3 10 man GEQ squads in a single shooting phase before charging across a broad front to lock down survivors if you get lucky or want to invest Warptime or CP on the charge.

 

Goats can then get thrown in with the Crystal or more CP and termies drop to reinforce. Characters can be flying DP's, guys on disks, or Termie sorcerers (spells only for the last one...no aura).

 

Hilariously, we might actually be able to make decent use of Linebreaker Bombardment. Roll 3 Vindis up with 2DP's behind them. DP's provide rerolls and keep them in business with Weaver, Glamour, and Temporal Manip. They also eat chargers who try to lock the Vindis.

 

Tzaangors for a screen and the Helm to feed stolen CP right into Bombardments while Gaze of Fate rerolls key effect rolls for Bombardment or damage rolls for the guns.

 

Would be nice to try once to see if there's anything to it.

I see someone is a fan of the "Order of Ruin" ;-)

Indeed. See my earlier posts about representing those very guys via reroll auras and Temporal Manip with Predators or Daemon Engines.

 

I also play Iron Warriors. I like explosions. ;)

[Raven1]

Pre-orders are up...special edition or more models. That's a tough choice for me.

 

 

 

The dice are not going to be re-released apparently. There is a paint and model (non-discounted) bundle as well.

[Zodd1888]

 

 

 

Being able to teleport a rubricae blob TWICE, buffing them with Veterans of the Long War, and giving their now more reasonably costed psychic commanders relevant spells to cast... We're fine.

Fine, for sure, though are there any other legion/chapter/fleet/etc. traits that are as singular in purpose as TS? Hell, the inferno bolt Strategem could have been a legion trait and it would have provided a boost to numerous selections and made Tzaangor pistols/chainsword a contender for selection.

 

All anyone is saying is that we're Grey Knights of Chaos. Not as bad off as GK, but you can clearly see GW didn't know what to do with these factions as they were. It's a problem with Elite type factions in general.

 

Again, TS fans at the core aren't unhappy because we got a bunch of goats for our faction and a warp beast. TS fans at the core are disappointed because there was one legion trait that applies to only Psykers that augments only range, and because the Rubric was ignored.

 

Edit: Helm of Third Eye is mandatory for sure.

Strongly, but respectfully disagree with you, and I'm a TS fan as well, so you shouldn't claim that you represent all of us any more than I do.

 

Perhaps this is because of high expectations. I simply assumed we would be treated like the Mechanicus codex or most of the other codexes, while others expected the full Death Guard treatment, and as such got disappointed?

 

I expected little more than a repackaging of the indexes, like most of the codexes have been so far, with a few flavorful stratagems that would make us a bit more flexible and viable. Adding the tzaangor models into the codex makes sense, just like it made sense to merge the Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus units into a single codex. I certainly didn't expect any new models or anything.

 

If all of this sense of anticlimax is because we got a faction bonus buffing our psykers, then I don't know what to tell you. The rubricae got a ton of buffs in the codex, and I intend to use them and my lovingly converted Scarab Occult a lot in the future.

I have 0 issues with goats and it wasn't my intent to speak for all TS player, just those who share my view. My suggestion involved no repack, and only adjustments to the poster boys of 1k, Rubrics. My expectations overall were met in terms of competitive nature of the army, I'm however concerned that this does not include Rubrics as a focal point.

 

Regarding the faction trait, 100% I expected a psyker based trait. That said, I didn't expect +6" to be the only factor to it. I thought some form of perils mitigation, or something totally unrelated to psykers so goats/dreads/engines were effected in some kind of fashion. Even if they dropped infernal bolters from the codex and made it the legion trait I could have seen that. There were more options out there.

 

As it stands now Aspiring Sorcerers in Rubric squads will be used as a buffing catalyst. The Rubrics sole purpose is ablative wounds to ensure your 1 power in squad remains possible as long as the squad does. This is very reminiscent of lookout sir mechanics.

 

With all that in mind, I'm not saying you can't use Rubrics effectively. It's simply CP intensive. Minimum you require 1 CP for Webway or Dark Crystal, 1 CP VotLW which is 1/3 of your total CP for a Battalion detatchment, or 2/7 on a Battalion and Outrider. You're also dropping 20+ point models in the backfield to shoot MEQ, generally.

 

Best use of Rubrics I've found is Webway in a Rubric squad with Warpflamers alongside either Terminator Sorcerers or something else that can teleport. Use Cabalistic to get off Warptime and Death Hex/Glamour, then VotLW for the Warpflamers. That'll clear out pretty much any big scary unit/LoW at a pretty decent cost in points and CP. After the drop your Rubrics will probably be in assault so Dark Crystal out of combat and repeat. A Scarabs could do and save CP.

 

Obviously we've all get to get some games in but Tzaangors went from mascot to main stage. I truly believe we're in a great place, but we're kicking empty cans while they're down when we compare them to Boats and Goats Mowers. That set-up is pretty crazy.

 

Go with 20+ Goats, Shaman, Daemon Prince, and a pair of Mutaliths. Make sure you get RR charge, -1 Rend, and hopefully +1 Strength from the Mutaliths. Cast Prescience, Diabolic Strength and Shaman aura. 2+ to hit w/RR, 3 attack, Strength 7, at -2 to rend? Zero CP invested. Though, you could double it and clear two units in one shot for 2 CP. Go for Enlightened in exchange for 2+ to hit, 4+ auto-hit, Strength 8, -2 Rend, and a 12" move instead.

 

That's competitive.

 

Rubrics got what?

 

Edit: I don't mean that in a condescending way, I simply wanted to show how vastly superior alternative options are.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Lets go with 20+ goats as you said, Que 2 Kastellans firing quad-tapper guns (18 shots per model) into the Goat herd, even with Glamour or Weaver up over half of your goats are dead from the volley. 

Try that same trick against rubrics and your looking at less then half the number dead, as guns like that grind to a a halt against rubrics, if we assume weaver on both units a 3++ against D1 weapons on a Rubricae, so those high-volume shots even with AP are far less effective, high volume without AP? will grind the goats to dust (lol) and the Rubrics will still be standing barring some awful luck. 

 

While the rubrics are far more expensive they have their own set of advantages. 

 

Gotta remember that lots of armies "prep" for hordes this edition. So any army spamming high-volume shooting D1 shots are going to be less useful against a Rubric unit, in many cases barely doing any casualties, but against a Tzaangor herd it would take lots of casualties + Morale losses. 

[Zodd1888]

For sure. I guess I'm kind of falling into the Kobe/Jordan trap. Awesome players, but without Shaq/Pippen and their team they'd be nothing. I guess I'm just praising the offense over defense.

[Sonoftherubric21]

For sure. I guess I'm kind of falling into the Kobe/Jordan trap. Awesome players, but without Shaq/Pippen and their team they'd be nothing. I guess I'm just praising the offense over defense.

 

Thats totally fair. I think the meta for us will evolve and...change *que canned laughter* but overall I think Rubrics and Scarabs have their place, Tzaangors will obviously feature, but its a good list overall no matter how you slice it, I personally dont think Rubrics got "enough" but they will still hold their own fine, especially with easier to get re-rolling 1's now. 

 

Thank GOD exalted are finally worth taking. 

[Skerr]

In most of my bigger lists i will likely swap tanks for a vortex, 3 to 4 enlightened and a shaman to test out. I typically run about 20 tzangoors anyway.

 

Kinda tempted to get a handful of shaman to zip around bodyguarding an exalted on disc smiting stuff.

 

Wont seem to have an effect on my Rubric or SOT numbers usually about 2 10 man rubs and 1 6to7 or 2 5 man sots.

 

Rhinos are an easy cut right now. Considering some lasbrutes.