Thousand Sons preorder January.27

[Scammel]

 

Did anyone catch the costs for a Mutalith. I heard it on a podcast, and now I can't remember. For some reason I thought it was about 100 points?

 

I'm really on the fence with the Mutalith. What do you guys think?

 

It's good, but for 150 points it's too expensive. For 120 points I'd seriously consider it, for 100 I'd take it most games.

 

I think with the Stratagem it really can do work in a turn for the points, but we don't have the CP to burn, especially if Cabalistic Focus turns out to be as vital as I think it will.

 

Lol, of course it would be an auto-include at 100pts. I suspect the strongest Sons list will field multiples.

[Panzer]

The Mutalith is fine if you can bring it into melee against something like Marines. Iirc it has 12 S6 AP-1 attacks or something like that? Too expensive to send into hordes and not enough punch to send against vehicles or monsters but just right against MEQs.

Considering that its buffs are nothing gamebreaking and it not having any ranged attacks I actually think it has a decent chance to get into melee unless your opponent overreacts and directs all his shooting towards it because it's a big bad monster.....in that case it'll serve well as distraction carnifex at least. :D

 

However unless you want to bring mostly Tzaangors I think it's too expensive to take more than one. Rubrics, Termis, Sorcerer, Daemon Princes and other Monsters are expensive enough.

[Prot]

Yea at a 150 I think I'll skip it for now.

 

The problem is the list is inherently expensive without a lot of Tzaangors. With a heavy Tzaangor element I think he'll fit, but more than one... I guess you're committing to Tzaangors because the redundancy may keep one of them operating longer, but really this guy is a buff bot.

[Khannis]

Think about this:

A Manticore costs 17 points less and puts out 2d6 S10 AP-3 D1d3 per turn. It's hard to argue with that in terms of points efficiency, even when you include the impact of buffs. Five Dark Reapers cost 10-20 less and put 5 S8 AP-3 D3 or 10 S5 AP-2 D2.

AT 150 points it's a more versatile but slightly worse Maulerfiend, IMHO.

[Minsc]

Think about this:

 

A Manticore costs 17 points less and puts out 2d6 S10 AP-3 D1d3 per turn. It's hard to argue with that in terms of points efficiency, even when you include the impact of buffs. Five Dark Reapers cost 10-20 less and put 5 S8 AP-3 D3 or 10 S5 AP-2 D2.

 

AT 150 points it's a more versatile but slightly worse Maulerfiend, IMHO.

 

If you're comparing shooty tanks/infantry to a buff-monster, then you're really comparing apples to oranges.

They have nothing in common.

[Scammel]

Yea at a 150 I think I'll skip it for now.

 

The problem is the list is inherently expensive without a lot of Tzaangors. With a heavy Tzaangor element I think he'll fit, but more than one... I guess you're committing to Tzaangors because the redundancy may keep one of them operating longer, but really this guy is a buff bot.

When I said 'the strongest lists', I'm definitely referring to Tzaangor-heavy lists. A couple of Mutaliths can concentrate buffs precisely where needed or spread the love around a screeching carpet of Tzaans.

[Panzer]

That's true tho to be fair the Mutalith is not just a buff monster. It's a hybrid unit that also fights decently in melee. But as always with hybrid units...it can't do anything as good as a unit with only a single purpose. I think I'd definitely take one in a list that doesn't completely lack Tzaangors but that's it.

[Khannis]

 

If you're comparing shooty tanks/infantry to a buff-monster, then you're really comparing apples to oranges.

They have nothing in common.

 

I respectfully disagree. They are very different yes, but ultimately comparable as their primary function is to contribute to the offensive capabilities of the army, and to me it's clear which ones contribute more efficiently, even if they do it in distinct ways with their own mechanics.

[Zodd1888]

I see Mutaliths as a bullet sponge for TS. Take one knowing it's the target and use it solely for buffs, and predominantly defensive. Enemies will come to it to eliminate the buffs, or regret it as Tzaangors charge alongside.

 

It's definetly a touch expensive, but 15 points down would be a good drop IMO.

 

I'm curious to see if there will be much in the way of FAQ for this book.

[Raven1]

I think 150 points is a bit much. In a Tzaangor heavy list it will be good as he can buff and fight. In a rubric focused list he doesn't fight well enough and he wont be near the units he needs to buff to justify the points cost.

[Prot]

So speaking of points... what drops did we see? I know a lot stayed the same, and Magnus went up by 20ish points.... Was the only reduction in the Soulreaper? 

 

I partially ask because I'm trying to make a list for my next game shortly, and I pretty much have all the psychic stuff figured out. It's more a goal of not going over/under too much in points.

 

+edit+ Wait a second, the Termies did go down a bit right? Just by virtue of the Sorc being included in the squad price as a basic Scarab?

[Archaeinox]

yes and with the access to a cool Change spell and VotLW strat, there is even less reason to take the hellfyre so that makes the squad even cheaper........

[Arachnofiend]

So speaking of points... what drops did we see? I know a lot stayed the same, and Magnus went up by 20ish points.... Was the only reduction in the Soulreaper? 

 

I partially ask because I'm trying to make a list for my next game shortly, and I pretty much have all the psychic stuff figured out. It's more a goal of not going over/under too much in points.

 

+edit+ Wait a second, the Termies did go down a bit right? Just by virtue of the Sorc being included in the squad price as a basic Scarab?

Pretty sure the only price drop that didn't already happen in the CSM dex was the Scarab Occult Sorcerer.

[BoomWolf]

yes and with the access to a cool Change spell and VotLW strat, there is even less reason to take the hellfyre so that makes the squad even cheaper........

 

 

I dont see any change spell makes you need the missiles less.

Or the VotLW. it interacts REALLY well with missiles to put a decent dent on some tanks actually.

[Skerr]

I think 150 points is a bit much. In a Tzaangor heavy list it will be good as he can buff and fight. In a rubric focused list he doesn't fight well enough and he wont be near the units he needs to buff to justify the points cost.

A small points drop would be nice on it. I plan on using him to buff sots heavy lists as well as tzangaoors.

 

I would prefer to keep him to one for unique sake.

[Sonoftherubric21]

The only points "drop" I am aware of was stuff coming down from index to match the index, all engines and such look like they match the chaos from what i am aware of. 

Exalted came down on disc a fair amount. 141 on disc compared to in index being 157. So thats a definite boost! along with their aura-buff now.  they will definitely see table time. 

The Scarab Occult squad fully tooled came down from 255 for a squad to 234 for the same load out. 21 point discount overall for the unit since the sorcerers just base cost. So the squads falling much better into competitive point ranges, and with our substantially more dangerous shooting I can see some definite uses. One of the more.... shall we say "competitive" by *terminator* standards.  Which as stated previously is a pretty low bar. 

But hey its quite the boost overall especially with VOTLW access and spell access combined with a points drop....they got *WAY* better.  with VOTLW a soul reaper wounds a T7 on 3's, and a T8 on 4's, and -3 armor adds up quick with the missiles wounding most valid targets on 2/3/4's depending on target of course. 

 

[Paladin777]

How does a soul reaper cannon ever wound T7 on 3’s? Please, tell me more!!

[Skerr]

I thought I heard Winter say the Vindicator went down crazy in points.  Did I mishear that?

[Raven1]

I thought I heard Winter say the Vindicator went down crazy in points. Did I mishear that?

I'm sure it will be whatever it is in the codex: csm

[Sonoftherubric21]

How does a soul reaper cannon ever wound T7 on 3’s? Please, tell me more!!

 

herp-a-derp I was incorrect, My thought process was overlapping with Hellfyres for some reason. 

 

i was thinking of hellfyres wounding T7 on 3's now followed by 2's thanks to Hellfyre

 

the soul reapers would wound on 4's with VOTLW. >_< 

[JamesI]

Got my first game in tonight, lost to a Guilliman/Celistine combo.  Was close and probably would have won had Ahriman not perils and killed himself near the end.

 

I wish i had had more time to read the book before the game, but I think it has potential (not likely to be winning the LVO or big events but it should work).

[Minsc]

So... in what scenario/list do people consider using Exalted Sorcerers, and what can they do that our other HQ's can't?
I suppose they're the best Seer's Bane wielder, but that's about it.

I love my Exalted Sorcerers and the concept of a combat-psyker, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that I will rarely use them, possibly as a 4th HQ in order to fill up a second battalion.

 

Ahriman is a steal.

He get's so much goodies over an ES for a measly +10/25 pts it's not even funny. (better invuln, better weapon, +1 to cast/deny, +1 power, +1 manifest, +2 denies).

 

A Daemonprince with Wings and two sets of talons doesn't cost that much more than a Exalted on a Disc, and in addition to doing everything the Exalted does (same aura, can carry a relic) he has access to one more discipline, the demon keyword and a statline that isn't too shabby.

 

Sorcerers in Terminator Armour doesn't have the aura, but does have +1 to cast on one manifest per phase (combine with the warlord trait for +2), has a better save than the Exalted and innate deepstrike for added utility. He can show up where he's needed, cast some powers and save something with the crystal. 

[Arachnofiend]

So... in what scenario/list do people consider using Exalted Sorcerers, and what can they do that our other HQ's cant?

 

I love my Exalted Sorcerers, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that I will rarely use them, possibly as a 4th HQ in order to fill up a second battalion.

 

Ahriman is a steal.

He get's so much goodies over an ES for a measly +10/25 pts it's not even funny. (better invuln, better weapon, +1 to cast/deny, +1 power, +1 manifest, +2 denies).

 

A Daemonprince with Wings and two sets of talons doesn't cost that much more than a Exalted on a Disc, and in addition to doing everything the Exalted does (same aura, can carry a relic) he has access to one more discipline, the demon keyword and a statline that isn't too shabby.

 

Sorcerers in Terminator Armour doesn't have the aura, but does have +1 to cast on one manifest per phase (combine with the warlord trait for +2), has a better save than the Exalted and innate deepstrike for added utility. He can show up where he's needed, cast some powers and save something with the crystal. 

The only argument for an Exalted Sorcerer is Seer's Bane. Is this enough of an argument? ...Probably not.

[HeresyBeliever]

Am i correct in thinking that the Rubric marines are now 18 points each and you pay no more for the aspiring sorcerer. So a basic unit with no upgrades to weapons is 90 points?

[JamesI]

You are correct except you have to pay for the inferno bolsters and force staff