Thousand Sons preorder January.27

[Paladin777]

Making a non-upgraded 5-man squad 107 points.

[Skerr]

I know i am in the monority but i plan on exalted rather than a termie sorc.

 

Likely be

Ahri

DP

ES

ES option

 

Making use of that +1 reroll, spell cast flexibility as well as cabalist ritual support and mixing it up in cc as cleaner.

[JamesI]

Making a non-upgraded 5-man squad 107 points.

yes.

I like the exalted as a slightly cheaper option. Pretty much all of 8th I've run Ahriman, Prince and 1 exalted. Not really planning to change that now.

 

I used Seers Bane and against the right foe it will be awesome. But it is very situational and I will likely use it rarely.

[Skerr]

I agree though the ES aint got that WS for nothing. Seer Bane riding ES with his Tzangoor spearmen on disc, supporting Shamen and foot Tzangoors is beggin for cc. It is situatuinal so you have to create that situation much like cabalistic ritual. Get across the board and target those characters and retinues.

Then opportunistic attacks.

[BoomWolf]

The problem is the cost.

You need to have the exalted, tool him up with the extra sword, and then pay 2 CP to get seer's bane (because you know the helm and crystal come first)

 

 

The only reason I see to get an exalted, is if you are playing some sort of small entry-level game where named characters are not allowed.

[Skerr]

I agree that SB is a solid 3rd choice. Does helm work from the start of the game, strats during deployment, all that?

[Raven1]

I agree that SB is a solid 3rd choice. Does helm work from the start of the game, strats during deployment, all that?

Based on the wording yes, a character with the helm is a good first drop to maximise the potential use of the relic.

[BoomWolf]

 

I agree that SB is a solid 3rd choice. Does helm work from the start of the game, strats during deployment, all that?

Based on the wording yes, a character with the helm is a good first drop to maximise the potential use of the relic.

 

 

 

Humm, I've yet to have the physical codex and I'm using online reviews so I can't be sure of the wording...

But I assume it won't work if I'm in DS reserves, right?

[Prot]

So... in what scenario/list do people consider using Exalted Sorcerers, and what can they do that our other HQ's can't?

I suppose they're the best Seer's Bane wielder, but that's about it.

 

I love my Exalted Sorcerers and the concept of a combat-psyker, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that I will rarely use them, possibly as a 4th HQ in order to fill up a second battalion.

 

 

I think for me the Exalteds are there to be escorted/escorting Tzaangors with Psychic buffs. The Exalted on Disk is still cheaper than a DP with wings I believe.

 

To me the problem with all those powers is getting to use them all. There's a lot of good ones now and I foresee turns where I'm struggling to get all the buffs cast as well as the damage spells. However I said as soon as the DP was revealed... he's almost too good to not take. In a list that can struggle with CC, he's built for it, economic, and independent. The extra cast ability compared to other DP's is just icing on the cake. I really don't want to take a DP with my Thousand Sons though.

 

 

 

 

I agree that SB is a solid 3rd choice. Does helm work from the start of the game, strats during deployment, all that?

Based on the wording yes, a character with the helm is a good first drop to maximise the potential use of the relic.

 

 

For some reason I thought based on the wording the Helm had to be on the battlefield. If that's the case, then no.... I don't think you could snatch up CP's during pre-deployment.

 

 

Thanks for the point clarification but I thought the Soulreaper did get a points reduction?

[JamesI]

The exalted us cheaper than the Prince, and has the option to take a force staff, power sword and a pistol.

 

The Prince is better since he can cast the same number of powers and has a 4+ invul.

 

But the exalted sorcerer models are so good.

[Archaeinox]

So check this out. I played a game the other night at around 1200pt or something vs. Custodes with the "current" rules. I had a blob of 20 Rubrics, Ahriman, an Exalted and 10 Scarab Occult. I was able to kill everything except a Custodian Guard and Trajann quite easily. I also imagined that I could use powers with an additional 6" range and I can tell you it would have made a big difference (to say nothing of the free Relic AND Change spells on 2 additional guys...)

 

Here's the really important part: I paid special attention to Lord of the Thousand Sons and took into consideration that the aura is changing, so I re-rolled all the 1s I had to hit.

 

Over the course of the game I rolled a few invul saves of 1 and when I re-rolled it I got absolutely zilch, nada, nothing. However, since the Rubrics & Scarab Occult were in range of either Ahriman or the Exalted, it would have made a massive difference because every miss I had of 1 ended up hitting on the "pretend" re-roll I was doing on the side.

 

So yes, massive boosts all around are coming. I will still take Exalteds at 121pts.

[BoomWolf]

The prince however can't get a boon of mutation, and our (first) boon has an 12/36 for a mind-blowing powerful result (+1 cast, choosing or princing), 17/36 for a good result, (-1 to hit, +1W, +1T, 6+ FnP, +3 move) 6/36 for a dud (+1 melee damage, +6 shooting range-and even these have uses) and mere 1/36 for a bad thing (spawning)

And if you get spawn, a reroll have 1/3 chance to turn it to the best result instead, 1/3 for a mere good result, 1/6 to get a dud and 1/6 to fail the save.

 

To make things better, every time you miss the +1 casting result, your odds of getting it next time improves, as if you double up you get to choose.

 

Basically-its a REALLY powerful spell, and the exalted probably make the best target for it, as he really gains from every possible result. (a regular sorcerer gains less from combat/shooting/movement buffs, even if on jump pack, and isn't quite as good to begin with.)

The terminator is also a good target.

Ahriman on foot is basically a +1 exalted, but unlike an exalted he probably don't want to be princed, or at least considers it a dud.

But a prince, or disk caster, can't take it at all.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I usually take a foot exalted for my list in the back-field, so this may actually be an option I hadn't considered....... not a bad idea!  use him as a buff-bot with aura and a pertinent buff spell and then keep chucking buffs onto him till something goes off. 

My inital plan is to use the heck out of Exalted, fielding probably 3-4 (this includes Ahriman as he is ludicrously points efficient) In a 2k list I like duel-battalions, not quite as restricting as a Brigade and gives a solid 9CP total. 

 

1 exalted in the backfield for buffing with the helm. another 2 on disc seers bane on one of them (If i am feeling that at the time) and of course Ahriman on disc. I may swap a Disc Sorcerer for a winged prince in some games as they have wonderful utility. 

For infantry for the battallion x2 I was thinking MSU tzaangors x4, one unit of cultists x10 to sit on home objectives, and 2 units of Rubricae x10. putting me right around 1300. so in 2000 id have around 700 points of tanks and engines with. 

[Skerr]

 

Here's the really important part: I paid special attention to Lord of the Thousand Sons and took into consideration that the aura is changing, so I re-rolled all the 1s I had to hit.

 

Over the course of the game I rolled a few invul saves of 1 and when I re-rolled it I got absolutely zilch, nada, nothing. However, since the Rubrics & Scarab Occult were in range of either Ahriman or the Exalted, it would have made a massive difference because every miss I had of 1 ended up hitting on the "pretend" re-roll I was doing on the side.

 

So yes, massive boosts all around are coming. I will still take Exalteds at 121pts.

Thats was my xp with 7ed Harlies. I know i mentioned it here before, the impact of rerolling 1s was negligible with Revenge formation. I was bummed when our index dropped. Much better aura imo.

[Prot]

Playing as many armies as I do, I can tell you right now re-rolling 1's to hit is far better than re-rolling 1's on failed Invulns.
 

It does make me wonder if it's worth taking an elite Tzaangor dude on a disk (I think they're about 52 points for 4 wounds and a spell) Maybe for filling out a Brigade?

 

I may try my admittedly goofy Landraider list in the next day or two. I just won't have enough information on the points costs for a lot of the Tzaangor stuff so I'll have to stick with the basics.

 

A crazy thing that has me tempted now is the Spawns which I used a lot anyway.

 

But I definitely see CP's being a huge problem still. Now that we have real strategems, saving peril's rolls will be doubly hard (without Magnus).

[JamesI]

The Tzaangor shaman is 90 with his staff.

[Prot]

Okay that idea just got a lot worse. I heard 52... which would have been okay, but that's just way too much.

[Skerr]

Insights with Eddie part 1 is up on WH community

[JamesI]

Okay that idea just got a lot worse. I heard 52... which would have been okay, but that's just way too much.

I think the only possible reason to use the shaman is to buff Tzaangor Enlightened. A generic sorcerer is generally probably better.

[Prot]

 

Okay that idea just got a lot worse. I heard 52... which would have been okay, but that's just way too much.

I think the only possible reason to use the shaman is to buff Tzaangor Enlightened. A generic sorcerer is generally probably better.

 

 

I don't know... I think +1 to hit on 20-30 Tzaangors might be good. But still... I think I'd rather use the points for full squad (plus) of Tzaangors.

[yergerjo]

 

 

 

Okay that idea just got a lot worse. I heard 52... which would have been okay, but that's just way too much.

I think the only possible reason to use the shaman is to buff Tzaangor Enlightened. A generic sorcerer is generally probably better.

I don't know... I think +1 to hit on 20-30 Tzaangors might be good. But still... I think I'd rather use the points for full squad (plus) of Tzaangors.

 

10 Tz with blades 21x(2/3)=13.2 hits

20 Tz with blades 41x(2/3)=27 hits

30 Tz with blades 61x(2/3)=40.3 hits

 

W/Shaman

10 Tz with blades 21x(5/6)=17.43 hits

20 Tz with blades 41x(5/6)=34 hits

30 Tz with blades 61x(5/6)=50.6 hits

 

W/Ex Sorc (or other reroll 1s)

10 Tz with blades 21x[(5/6)+(5/36) or 0.97]=20.4 hits

20 Tz with blades 41x(0.97)=39.8 hits

30 Tz with blades 61x(0.97)=59.2 hits

 

VS MEQ

Wounding 0.5 per hit or

Wounding 0.67 per hit with Vet of the Long War

 

At AP -1

 

Fully "buffed"

10 man = 6.84 dead Marines

20 man = 13.34 dead Marines

30 man = 19.83 dead Marines

 

20 Tz could consistently remove a full Tactical Squad while 30 Tz will usually remove 10 Primaris Marines.

 

What's your Meta?

[yergerjo]

Statistically you should be better with bigger units from the aura buff, however if you can have more of the smaller units with the same aura buffs you may be better off tactically.

[Prot]

On  a side note, does anyone know the base size of a Mutalith? I want to proxy one for a game before considering the purchase.

[Skerr]

I heard it was a flyer base.

[Raven1]

On a side note, does anyone know the base size of a Mutalith? I want to proxy one for a game before considering the purchase.

50x100mm maybe