Thousand Sons preorder January.27

[Minsc]

On  a side note, does anyone know the base size of a Mutalith? I want to proxy one for a game before considering the purchase.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-SE/Mutalith-Vortex-Beast

 

120x92mm oval base.

 

 

[FirstSonofHorus]

It looks really dumb on that base, it is far too small for it. I went for a bigger, round one.

[Prot]

For now I'm just going to proxy a Forgefiend. Hopefully that's mildly accurate.

 

Right now I have:

 

Ahriman on disk: 155 ??

Exalted on disk: 145??

DP w/wings: 180

 

Troops:

10 Tzaangors with pistols/chainswords  70 pts

 

10 Tzaangors with Tzaangor Blades 70 pts

 

10 Rubrics (going in Landraider deepstrike?), 4x Warpflamers, Soulreaper. 250 points?

 

Elites:

10 x Scarab Occult Termies, 2 Hellfyre racks, 2 Soulreapers: 479 points? (ouch)

 

Heavy:

Mutalith: 150 (rumour has this at S7/T7, 14 wounds, 4+/5++, heals a wound a turn)

 

Defiler: Havok Launcher, Autoreaper: 166 points (I just can't fit in the bloody Landraider with the mass of Scarabs)

 

This has me about... 1665.

 

I'm not sure what to do from here. I have some Tzeentch daemons (very limited) to add a minor Battalion to get my CP's up. (two change casters, 10 pinks, 10 blues, 10 brimstones (326 pts) Or just add Tzaangors, a Shaman perhaps, I do have 3 Tzaangors on disks with spears for some reason.  Any thoughts?

[Nym]

 Any thoughts?

You might want to leave at least one Sorcerer on foot, to use Boon of Tzeentch (or whatever it is called). This spell is truly crazy.

 

I would also run another Daemon Engine, for target saturation. Defilers are awesome right now, way better than Forgefiends. Go all the way.

[JamesI]

Ahriman on disk 166

Exalted on disk 141, 145 if you add a power sword.

I count your rubrics as 272.

472 for the scarabs

 

I'll have to check the defiler, don't remember those

[Prot]

 

 Any thoughts?

You might want to leave at least one Sorcerer on foot, to use Boon of Tzeentch (or whatever it is called). This spell is truly crazy.

 

I would also run another Daemon Engine, for target saturation. Defilers are awesome right now, way better than Forgefiends. Go all the way.

 

 

Ha... I haven't run a defiler for months. You think they're that good? Really? Or just a fun unit? I can use two of my Soulgrinders to proxy for two Defilers, but That pretty much does the list.

 

I see what you mean about Boon of Tzeentch... I was going to put the power on an Exalted on disk but realize he can't cast it on anyone... so I may have to go with a Termie Sorc... instead of the Exalted. darn.

 

Does anyone know how much the Familiar is for the Termie Sorc?

 

Ahriman on disk 166

Exalted on disk 141, 145 if you add a power sword.

I count your rubrics as 272.

472 for the scarabs

 

I'll have to check the defiler, don't remember those

 

The Rubrics seem too high... I'm thinking they're going to come in about.... 260 at the most.

I'm pretty solid on the Defiler using the Chaos codex for that cost.

Scarabs..472 sounds right.

 

Also DP will be Warlord for +1 Cast on powers and have the helmet of stealing CP's.

 

Did we not get some sort of "gate" ability in the psychic phase as well?

[Zodd1888]

What's your intent with the Rubrics? Are you going to Warptime them in flamer range? If so I'd personally split the SOT into two sets to drop beside the Rubrics so I could pop Cabalistic Ritual on them for Warptime.

 

Otherwise you're looking for 1 HQ and maybe 1 Heavy to keep it full TS and do Spearhead, or pop in Tzeentch Battalion. I'd personally try for the Battalion/Spearhead and fill up my Tzaangor units with whatever points remained. Two Mutaliths wouldn't be bad...

[Raven1]

You could do a cheap Tzeentch battalion, TS battalion and TS Spearhead. If you proxy a soulgrinder as a Defiler. Thats 10 CP points? You could easily deepstrike two units one of Rubrics one of Tzaangors, plus a sorcerer in terminator armor to warptime the rubrics and the SO Occult for two shooty units and one choppy unit in an alpha strike.

 

I would grab helm of third eye to regenerate those CPs though.

[Prot]

What's your intent with the Rubrics? Are you going to Warptime them in flamer range? If so I'd personally split the SOT into two sets to drop beside the Rubrics so I could pop Cabalistic Ritual on them for Warptime.

 

Otherwise you're looking for 1 HQ and maybe 1 Heavy to keep it full TS and do Spearhead, or pop in Tzeentch Battalion. I'd personally try for the Battalion/Spearhead and fill up my Tzaangor units with whatever points remained. Two Mutaliths wouldn't be bad...

 

Since I dropped the Landraider, the Rubrics are going to Deep strike with the Termie Sorc (just added). He will warp time them into flame range hopefully. (+1 from familiar if I find out how much it costs).

 

Scarab Occult are at 10 so I can maximize: Votlw. I've been doing this with my Death Guard Termies... and it's actually pretty darn good. Dual Hellfyre's split fire on vehicles wounding on 3's or 2's (depending on target) is gravy. I'm going to try it, but to be honest I'm not sure it will work because CP's are going to be desperately needed in the army. (I always gobble them up for Perils)

 

You could do a cheap Tzeentch battalion, TS battalion and TS Spearhead. If you proxy a soulgrinder as a Defiler. Thats 10 CP points? You could easily deepstrike two units one of Rubrics one of Tzaangors, plus a sorcerer in terminator armor to warptime the rubrics and the SO for two shooty units and one choppy unit in an alpha strike.

 

Right... I like that, however I don't know what I'm doing with the Tzeentch daemons really. I don't have "Change Casters" (I would be using Tzaangors on disks to proxy them). I own 10 pinks, 10 blues, 10 brims, and 3 flamers (basically that box set thing with the big flamer/chariot dude, and the flying manta rays). I know squat about the daemons... in case you couldn't tell. lol

 

I'm shying away from that idea for that reason. I'm plugging holes with a Shaman (I still think he's a bit too expensive) and a second Defiler. (trying to think of things that will benefit from: Flame Gargoyles and the Mutalith table). I'm not saying a Tzeentch Battalion wouldn't be good... I think with my blue/pink/brim collection it will probably suck pretty bad.

 

+edit+

I don't know if the cost of a Defiler (166)  + shaman (90) points can get me close to a Tzeentch battalion but what do pinks/blues/brims really do nowadays?

[JamesI]

The 4 warpflamers are what is killing you.

 

10 rubrics is 180, plus 60 for the warplamers, plus 15 for the soul reaper, plus 8 for the force staff, 1 for the inferno bolt pistol, and 8 for the bolters.

[Prot]

The 4 warpflamers are what is killing you.

 

10 rubrics is 180, plus 60 for the warplamers, plus 15 for the soul reaper, plus 8 for the force staff, 1 for the inferno bolt pistol, and 8 for the bolters.

 

Okay, here's how I'm arriving at my number:

 

Asp. Sorc + stave + bolt pistol = 27 points.

4 Rubrics with Inferno Boltguns (80)

Rubric with Soulreaper (33)

4 Rubrics with Warpflamer (120)

[JamesI]

4 rubrics with warpflamer are 132.

[Raven1]

Then summon the demons after you deepstrike? The wont keep you from being battleforged.

 

I think they get a shooting attack now and can hold objects as good as any chaff, deepstrike denial, tarpit. Splitting demons is very frustrating for opponents in my experience. They just kind of suck wounds up. I like demons and plan on having at least a battali9n to go with my TS...or really Tzaangors and sorcerers...i don't know yet.

[Skerr]

We should be getting another article soon, maybe today! Book is almost her fellow cabists

[Ahzek451]

Will be getting mine today, can't wait

[Prot]

I'm finding the list I'm playing has a little too much guess work in it for points, etc. A lot leaked on the net, but a lot didn't. Funny thing is it's all out there in videos now. In the past it used to be in grainy flip phone pictures. lol

 

So the Landraider looks almost impossible to fit if I want to experiment with a Mutalith, and a 10 man Scarab AND a 10 man Rubric squad. No Magnus yet....

 

I think my old formula of min 20 Tzaangors is not going to change. I've made a lot of potential lists and the core idea of what we're trying to do doesn't change.

 

I'd really like to explore the Mutalith because right now at 150, I have to see buffs/kills that are going to do better than those would do elsewhere.

 

I've been doing experimental Psyker set ups with powers and potential buff sorcs, vs. offensive sorcs. It's tricky. Ahriman is almost 100% must take now I think. But I don't think he'll make Warlord. Then again if he starts getting popped on me too much, I may have to do it. In part why I say this is he works out to be one of the better aggressive Sorcerers with his inherent +1 and three tries at something with mortal wounds.

 

Speaking of the offensive sorcs, I've tried figuring it out, and I was looking at the "A" list of psychic domination/killy powers, and I have to say I don't know if I'll ever take it. I don't think I will ever pass it reliably enough. But if anyone's getting it, it's Ahriman.

 

Of course if we use the Cabal with a +2 to cast on top of it, let's be honest, would you use that on Smite? Or Doombolt? Again the use of Command Points with this army is going to be very high without Magnus as usual.(So surprised we didn't get 2 wound sorcs in squads)

 

As far as my first test list:

 

Quick question: Would you guys dump a Landraider (trying to take advantage of new powers/Strats) in favour of 2 Defilers? The points are pretty similar.

[Skerr]

I cant speak on defilers and their use that being said i have tried to put LR in 2000 pt list but end up cutting them for something. I really want to use a LR though... just can't seem to find the role justifying cost.

 

I really want to use the mutilith also. I really like the strat allowing to choose 2 powers, thats 2 MW to all in 9in. Couple rounds of that will get attention for sure. The trick will be keeping it alive. Will it fly under the radar the first couples to get mw off or buff your tzangoors and SOTs?

 

It will also need to think about mixing it up in cc by mid game to support your goats, sots, Exalted Sorcerers, etc..

Though it also needs to be far enough away to not blow up in your face when it pops, i mean is 150 points too much to use on a buff/debuff monster that you plan to kill off or hope to die (cuz it probably will) in cc around a bunch of enemy units? The conditions have to be right and it has to blow up successfull so we will have to see.

[Prot]

Does the Mutalith blow on a 4+?

 

I am thinking the same way though. It really doesn't feel like it's worth letting this thing sit around... buffing. It feels like a unit you want to get near the front, and let it do its thing.

 

On the Landraider, I really haven't taken them for a long time. I'm just thinking it's going to die in T1 like always. We play with a fair amount of LoS terrain, but the problem I have here is there aren't any good distractions in my list.

 

I haven't used Defilers in even longer though. They have always been a mixed bag of goo to me. They aren't CC gods, they aren't shooting that great... just somewhere in between. But at 166 each, they've come down a lot. But dual Lascannons are dual lascannons especially in a list like mine.

 

I have been working on a Landraider on and off for quite some time, but I get so discouraged by how long it lasts in my other armies, I was hoping Thousand Sons -1 to hit, and healing, might help that.

[Raven1]

I'm finding the list I'm playing has a little too much guess work in it for points, etc.

 

Quick question: Would you guys dump a Landraider (trying to take advantage of new powers/Strats) in favour of 2 Defilers? The points are pretty similar.

Absolutely agree, i started messing around with list ideas, but felt like there were too many unknowns. I'm waiting for Saturday fill in the gaps and play a game.

 

As far as the LR vs Defiler. I would say go for the Defilers it would be easier to build a spearhead, it can shoot and chop though both make good use of warpflame gargoyles.

[Prot]

Okay.. I give up on the Landraider for now. Going with 2 Defilers!

 

I think the only 'new' unit I will use before Saturday is the Mutalith proxy. I have the psychic powers typed out and most point values. I might be off by a few, but I think if I keep it simple I can use most of my existing stuff. Funny thing is I never used Defilers before the codex, and the new codex doesn't really play to them -that- much!

 

I just like the idea of daemonic beasts fueled by psychic guidance, ripping down field!

[Skerr]

I think the MVB is a 4+ to blow up. Seems the intention of the designers to expect to sacrifice it. I have never read one in the fluff and no expert but its seems a magically created/conjured(?), unstable monster that bends reality and likely to cause disaster somewhere.

 

I dont think they would be kept and taken care of as pets or warbeasts, on this plane, very temporary lifespan.

 

Though they could be roaming freely on the vast planes of the planet of the sorcerers, i am not sure. The intent seems to get it into cc by round 2 or 3 and watch fireworks hopefully.

[The Yncarne]

I tend to face off against two defilers and a forgefiend with the evil techpriest fairly regularly. I have trouble bringing them down as I’m also facing 70 cultists advancing non stop. It’s a very different list from Prot’s so it is a bad comparison. I need better mobility and I expect that with the new codex. I’m still not sure where all my anti vehicle will come from but first things first.

 

My most successful lists were dual landraiders with rubrics inside but MSUs and maelstrom missions made that more difficult to win as codexes came out. Again probably different meta than others here have.

[Prot]

That's still good insight. At my store one guy runs dual Landraiders to great effect (Black Templars), but it's easier for him with cheaper infantry overall.

 

All I know is I don't want to replicate my Death Guard lists or there's no point in doing this. My Death Guard play differently but the list is starting to look the same! Big blob of Termies. Big blob of Rubrics/Plague Marines, Poxwalkers/Tzaangors for numbers, and pushing board control, Daemon Prince and character for Psychic support.... it's getting eerily similar!!

[Raven1]

@Prot, what's effective is effective, you know what i mean.

 

A large chunk of chaff with a hard alpha strike is generally a winning combination.

 

If we were playing imperial my list would look a bit different. Supreme command of Adeptus Custodes, vanguard of blood angels, and a battalion of guard. In the end the though process is the same. Chaff holds the deployment zone, deepstrike denial, and heavy hitting elites fill the rest of the points, hoping to get first.

[hhhdan]

I was thinking about a defiler too. Mainly as a 'distraction carnifex' to preoccupy the opponent and distract him from the mutaliths.

 

In theory it should be more threatening, especially if a sorcerer with warptime is deployed nearby. In actuality, the sorcerer will warptime the 30-goat tzaangor unit that will deep strike, move and charge the enemy to tie them up, while the rest of the force supports them from range. Mutalith will either buff the tzaangors, daemons (with +1S buff on horrors or flamers) or run in to do mortal wounds...

 

So the list for now kind of looks like this:

 

Ahriman

Daemon prince

Shaman

3x3 Bowlightened

2x Mutalith

Defiler

30 tzaangors

2x5 Rubrics

 

2x Herald

3x10 Brimstones

 

(some points, about 250-300 to summon either horrors, flamers or exalted flamers depending on the opponent's list. that 1CP stratagem for 4D6 summoning is crazy good for getting 30 pink horrors onto the board for 1CP instead of 2CP deep strike stratagem, plus added flexibility of the list)