Thousand Sons preorder January.27

[Sonoftherubric21]

One of the other ways to kill Guard is through cartoonishly massive shot count. Back when Conscripts were king, Reece from FLG built a Raptors SM list that averaged 70 dead Conscripts per turn from shooting and still had both assault troops and anti-armor to use when the screens were dead.

 

The key was a truckload of Storm Bolters and shotguns, coupled with Sternguard in pods.

 

We can do something similar with 10 man SOT plus 20 man Rubrics plus 40 man goats for follow up charges. Then with VotLW our bolters, Soulreapers, and power swords can melt tanks and Knights given the save penalties and sheer number of dice....even better if we drop psychic mortal wounds on them first.

 

We can also bring in 30 Pink Horrors or some Flamers for even more hellish shot count if we really want to...with cultists for backfield holding and non-DS board presence, though some of that could be dropped for anti-tank.

 

That.....is a pretty good idea. I own 20 Scarab Occult. And yes; I do love fielding them in 10 man units 

 

I will try this next time against one of the guard players in the local meta that uses a semi-competitive guard build, see how it fairs. 

 

Luckily my meta isn't usually cut-throat so perhaps i am lucky in that regard, that or a swift boot is given to hyper-competitive people. 

 

I wonder if in a pinch the Enlightened with bows would in fact be a decent choice for Anti-Tank.... obviously high-toughness stuff, but most high T models ALSO has a 2+ save to accompany it, which means with the bows inclusive your sitting at a 3+ save still (Land raiders and Leviathans comes to mind) are Leman russ a 2+ save as well? I dont remember off hand. 

 

A huge unit of Rubrics or Scarabs actually have decent AT capability, given that on average a unit of 10 can deal severe damage to a T7 or less model including VOTLW, against T8 its a harder sell but with extra support id definitely do it and pile on some more damage from elsewhere.  I personally really like forgefiends and defilers but they arent as good at AT as the Disco-Las Predator.  

 

Forgefiends are great at range in our list but they *do* require lots of support, las preds just work base. 

 

with VOTLW I at least have confidence in our damage output being substantial. 

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I suppose this brings up the question of how much dedicated anti tank do we even need? In my CSM list I've done well with combi-plas drop terminators with VOTLW and prescience to kill tanks, but that's a higher strength and d2 weapon. Do we have enough buffs/debuffs to get away with using weight of fire or mid str weapons instead of needing a bunch of lascannons?

 

If only there was some way to raise the D on inferno weapons!

 

And if we do want higher Str weapons, the exalted flamer is really nasty, especially with a herald buffing its strength. But the range is limited.

[hhhdan]

One of the other ways to kill Guard is through cartoonishly massive shot count. Back when Conscripts were king, Reece from FLG built a Raptors SM list that averaged 70 dead Conscripts per turn from shooting and still had both assault troops and anti-armor to use when the screens were dead.

 

The key was a truckload of Storm Bolters and shotguns, coupled with Sternguard in pods.

 

We can do something similar with 10 man SOT plus 20 man Rubrics plus 40 man goats for follow up charges. Then with VotLW our bolters, Soulreapers, and power swords can melt tanks and Knights given the save penalties and sheer number of dice....even better if we drop psychic mortal wounds on them first.

 

We can also bring in 30 Pink Horrors or some Flamers for even more hellish shot count if we really want to...with cultists for backfield holding and non-DS board presence, though some of that could be dropped for anti-tank.

 

the cool thing is that a full squad of rubrics with 2 soul reaper cannons will be a threat to anything from normal infantry to even tanks. With Veterans of the long war, prescience and re-roll 1s aura, they hurt anything really well, so having a squad of them that can potentially deep strike or just march up the board/teleport using the crystal will be a very good all rounder choice in my opinion

[Raven1]

talking about shooting and tanks.  I dont know if we have the wording but could Temporal manipulation heal "VEHICLES"  it would be great.  One sorcerer and 3 preds in a spearhead hanging in the backfield shooting and healing...

[Archaeinox]

Yes the information on Temporal Manipulation is vague so far. 

 

I hope it functions kinda like apothecary but on ALL TS units

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

One of the other ways to kill Guard is through cartoonishly massive shot count. Back when Conscripts were king, Reece from FLG built a Raptors SM list that averaged 70 dead Conscripts per turn from shooting and still had both assault troops and anti-armor to use when the screens were dead.

 

The key was a truckload of Storm Bolters and shotguns, coupled with Sternguard in pods.

 

We can do something similar with 10 man SOT plus 20 man Rubrics plus 40 man goats for follow up charges. Then with VotLW our bolters, Soulreapers, and power swords can melt tanks and Knights given the save penalties and sheer number of dice....even better if we drop psychic mortal wounds on them first.

 

We can also bring in 30 Pink Horrors or some Flamers for even more hellish shot count if we really want to...with cultists for backfield holding and non-DS board presence, though some of that could be dropped for anti-tank.

the cool thing is that a full squad of rubrics with 2 soul reaper cannons will be a threat to anything from normal infantry to even tanks. With Veterans of the long war, prescience and re-roll 1s aura, they hurt anything really well, so having a squad of them that can potentially deep strike or just march up the board/teleport using the crystal will be a very good all rounder choice in my opinion

Yep....and if you have Prescience and Vets going at Rapid Fire range, along with a character standing by and a Smite thrown in, you can pretty reliably wreck 3 10 man Guard squads at once. The SOT's can take another 2 even without Prescience and Vets. 50 infantry just vaporized....and then the goats and horrors (or heavy support) go to work.

[hhhdan]

I suppose this brings up the question of how much dedicated anti tank do we even need? In my CSM list I've done well with combi-plas drop terminators with VOTLW and prescience to kill tanks, but that's a higher strength and d2 weapon. Do we have enough buffs/debuffs to get away with using weight of fire or mid str weapons instead of needing a bunch of lascannons?

 

If only there was some way to raise the D on inferno weapons!

 

And if we do want higher Str weapons, the exalted flamer is really nasty, especially with a herald buffing its strength. But the range is limited.

 

That's my plan for the army, have weight of AP-2 firepower and several exalted flamers hanging out with a herald and a prince behind tzaangors and horrors wall. 

 

Exalted flamers are awesome, as they are really versatile and characters, so tend to stay alive longer than things like predators

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I suppose this brings up the question of how much dedicated anti tank do we even need? In my CSM list I've done well with combi-plas drop terminators with VOTLW and prescience to kill tanks, but that's a higher strength and d2 weapon. Do we have enough buffs/debuffs to get away with using weight of fire or mid str weapons instead of needing a bunch of lascannons?

 

If only there was some way to raise the D on inferno weapons!

 

And if we do want higher Str weapons, the exalted flamer is really nasty, especially with a herald buffing its strength. But the range is limited.

There was a guy on Dakka at the beginning of 8th ed talking about how he just spammed tons of Rubrics and walked up the field murdering stuff through AP-2 shot count. Won a tournament that way.

 

That was before codexes, but when we have our own, we should have some nice tools to do that again.

 

Also, one of Reece's heaviest hitters in his Night Lord army is a squad of Termies all armed with Power Swords and pumped up with Vets. Sounds familiar. :)

[Nym]

A friend of mine plays Imperial Guard and I've yet to lose against him in 8th edition.

The trick to win against Guard is to kill anything that isn't a tank, and just engage the tanks in close combat. It's too hard for a generalist Thousand Sons army to destroy 4 or 5 Leman Russes over the course of a game. Toughness 8 is our bane.

 

However, T3 5+sv models are the *best* target for Inferno Bolters. With Prescience and VotLW you're hitting on 2's (possibly re-rolling now thanks to our new aura) and wounding on 2's. No screen can stand against that.

[Are Verlo]

i hope "elite" Thousand sons are not all that crappy. What I mean is: right now I´m painting 100+ guardsmen and I can´t bring my self to paint 30 -60 Tzaangors.

As I´ve always wanted a 1KS army I hope that its viable in friendly gaming (self-imposed limits wont win tournaments) if I base my army around Rubric squads mixed with scarab occult and some/too many HQs.

 

Ahriman´s "bliing boys"

Vanguard detachment and supreme command or battalion + supreme command.

 

Lots of sorcs, some rubrics and lots of SO is my vision of 1KS.

[Khannis]

i hope "elite" Thousand sons are not all that crappy. What I mean is: right now I´m painting 100+ guardsmen and I can´t bring my self to paint 30 -60 Tzaangors.

As I´ve always wanted a 1KS army I hope that its viable in friendly gaming (self-imposed limits wont win tournaments) if I base my army around Rubric squads mixed with scarab occult and some/too many HQs.

 

Ahriman´s "bliing boys"

Vanguard detachment and supreme command or battalion + supreme command.

 

Lots of sorcs, some rubrics and lots of SO is my vision of 1KS.

 

I hope so too, my friend... But right now, I fear for us.

[Are Verlo]

..just want to add: I am positive to getting new units and a codex that offer different builds or playstyles. But at the moment I want an elite army and sorcerors, rubrics with bling and scarab occult terminators offer that (I hope)

[Skerr]

There are some guard lists where it isn't even worth setting your army up for chaos, damn Cadians.

 

Going first is huge, a few months ago an itc article from flg said that over 75% of matches were won by the player going first, with our new deep strike abilities getting those tzangors across the table just got a lot easier.

 

The leviathan is a beast, toughness 8 can be quite a game changer.

I remember that article and i think it went on to talk about the importance of terrian to block los to help mitigate.

 

I might check out some FLG Battle reports to see their terrain set ups with guard and other hordes.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

i hope "elite" Thousand sons are not all that crappy. What I mean is: right now I´m painting 100+ guardsmen and I can´t bring my self to paint 30 -60 Tzaangors.

As I´ve always wanted a 1KS army I hope that its viable in friendly gaming (self-imposed limits wont win tournaments) if I base my army around Rubric squads mixed with scarab occult and some/too many HQs.

 

Ahriman´s "bliing boys"

Vanguard detachment and supreme command or battalion + supreme command.

 

Lots of sorcs, some rubrics and lots of SO is my vision of 1KS.

 

You can totally just spam Rubrics and SO and have it at least hold its own, based on what I'm seeing so far, as long as you keep the right psychic buffs and Stratagems in mind.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

A friend of mine plays Imperial Guard and I've yet to lose against him in 8th edition.

 

The trick to win against Guard is to kill anything that isn't a tank, and just engage the tanks in close combat. It's too hard for a generalist Thousand Sons army to destroy 4 or 5 Leman Russes over the course of a game. Toughness 8 is our bane.

 

However, T3 5+sv models are the *best* target for Inferno Bolters. With Prescience and VotLW you're hitting on 2's (possibly re-rolling now thanks to our new aura) and wounding on 2's. No screen can stand against that.

Yep. That's why just two of our units can delete 50 guardsmen in my example. Depending on build, we can do to Guard what they always love doing to Marines: feed them at least one very threatening shot per model, every turn. Back in 3.5, Tzeentch used to be mediocre against armor (due to the few overpriced anti-tank options available to Tzeentch and an overstuffed Heavy Support section in the Codex) and absolute hell on wheels against infantry hordes. Now that's back, but we can have just enough anti-armor punch in the same build to grind down the tanks by the late game and/or charge lock them.

 

We should have a good chance against Reaper Spam as well. They show up via Cloudstrike/Webway, murder a bunch of Cultists and kill a vehicle or two. A handfull of our models survive, and then goats, Rubrics, and SOT show up with a counterpunch that pretty much ends it. If it's possible for Oblit spam and Alpha Berzerker Horde survive and win against Reapers, then we definitely can too. As for Ultramarines, I see comical stories on this subforum all the time about how often we smack down Guilliman with Death Hex and mortal wounds.

 

Not saying we're going to be the new kings, but I don't think a spot at the occasional top table is too much to hope for.

[Sonoftherubric21]

i hope "elite" Thousand sons are not all that crappy. What I mean is: right now I´m painting 100+ guardsmen and I can´t bring my self to paint 30 -60 Tzaangors.

As I´ve always wanted a 1KS army I hope that its viable in friendly gaming (self-imposed limits wont win tournaments) if I base my army around Rubric squads mixed with scarab occult and some/too many HQs.

 

Ahriman´s "bliing boys"

Vanguard detachment and supreme command or battalion + supreme command.

 

Lots of sorcs, some rubrics and lots of SO is my vision of 1KS.

 

This is actually what I run from the index; I DO use tzaangors (own 40) but most of the time I run...maybe 20? If that. 

 

Most of my list is Daemon engines, and lots and LOTS of Rubric Marines.  I own 50 of those, there are several times where I have fielded the majority, the list never gets steam-rolled off the table, though it also doesn't necessitate a win. 

 

Its a fun list, and in the INDEX it holds its own, i have never just had "abject failure" before the game begins occur in 8th. Some games may be rough, but thats often due just to dice and the fickle hatred of our lord tzeentch lol. 

 

I think that you will do fine with it in *most* metas. If your meta is 100% cutthroat duel primarchs 10+ guard tanks or hyper-competitive reaper spam eldar builds you may need to rethink your strategy, but as a general rule of thumb you'll do just fine.  I dont fear at all, I  held my own in the index. the proper dex is going to be a massive step up. 

 

Random side note ; we *HAVE NOT* seen a "rubric" or "Scarab occult" stratagem yet.  So those are still coming.

 

Edit for clarity; 

 

I also own 20 scarab occult, I have done fairly well with fielding all 20 in literally the same game. but you have to design the list around it and to compensate as they are VERY EXPENSIVE.  Although this list would be a fair bit better off now given the price drop AND the power boost of the unit in question.  VOTLW makes a huge difference, tons of psychic support and obviously aura support will make all the difference in getting the most out of our Inferno Bolters. 

 

I think Rubricae and Scarab Occult will be fine; but they ARE elite, so expect the limitation of "horde armies" giving you a hard time without properly list building for something with volume shooting (Our shots are very much Quality > Quantity) So we have some issues with hordes, though I imagine now less so since we have easy access to RR1's and VOTLW alone, let alone all the other options. (Doombolt anybody?) 

[1000 Sons]

A friend of mine plays Imperial Guard and I've yet to lose against him in 8th edition.

 

The trick to win against Guard is to kill anything that isn't a tank, and just engage the tanks in close combat. It's too hard for a generalist Thousand Sons army to destroy 4 or 5 Leman Russes over the course of a game. Toughness 8 is our bane.

 

However, T3 5+sv models are the *best* target for Inferno Bolters. With Prescience and VotLW you're hitting on 2's (possibly re-rolling now thanks to our new aura) and wounding on 2's. No screen can stand against that.

Getting to the guard is usually the hard part, even if I go first, no rubrics are in shooting range, or they are in rhinos tearing up the table, if I am lucky some scarabs might get in combat after shooting. The guard player will then do the fall back and shoot order, the 6 or so tanks and some sort of super heavy, a bane blade or such will open up. Anything on foot moving up is torn apart, magnus is dead or heavily wounded but still cant get to tank because of the bubble wrap. If the guard player is smart they are playing Cadia so rerolling just about everything against you. Most guard armies, killing the troops is what they want, they just fall back and kill what ever charged them with tanks.

[Prot]

I haven't beat guard with most my armies.. only once actually. Typically it's the layers... first layer is chaff, next layer is flame tanks.. .which are really the hard part in this match up for me. charging them is also death. Then the last layer is tanks, eventually protecting a core of indirect fire; Manticore/Basi's/Wyyvern, etc.

 

Their Super Heavies with a 2 up save is a deal killer for me too.

 

Anyway, not much for this week.... one reveal so far. I wonder if we'll get a game considering the crew seems to be cover LvO and no one is back at the base doing Thousand Sons articles????

[Raven1]

TS reveal game was the game against Adeptus Custodes. Apparently they don't have much interest in reveals for the TS and are focused on the LVO.

[Zodd1888]

I'm very surprised they didn't have articles prepared leading up to LVO and the pre-order. Either they don't consider it a big release (unlikely) or they think the weight of the fan base will pull in their expected numbers and the community articles will boost above target. Just odd.

[Skerr]

We will likely get 1 to 2 more this week and insights with Eddie next week.

[Arachnofiend]

Blood Angels and Dark Angels only got two articles each prior to preorder day, not really a surprise that we're getting the same treatment.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Well i wish people with the dang book would start blabbing then! we know some have the book... WE WANT INFO!!! lol. 

 

This will be our book for *years* I want some more fanfare! 

[Panzer]

Be patient. The BA stuff started to get leaked only a few days before as well. :P

[Sonoftherubric21]

Be patient. The BA stuff started to get leaked only a few days before as well.

 

*sigh* Fine....back to my ritual chamber....