How are your Custodes doing?

[Kenzaburo]

As far as I understood it, the Land Raider may be overcosted (totally agree), but it being terrible is also dependent on what kind of weaponry my opponent brings. I nevertheless get what you're saying - with the little variety we have in our units, the Land Raider still sticks out as an overcosted and not exactly powerful choice.

 

I think, CP might be one of my core problems, that I need to get a grip on. Not only having too few, but almost not using them. :) I used on of my 3 for rerolls and thought about using the other 2 on the terminators only to find "Unleash the Lions" to come into effect too late - when the unit is already torn to pieces by massed fire.

 

FGLTC is an interesting choice - puts the beatsticks right in front of my enemy. Good thing I bought the cards, they might help me remember all the startagems better. :)

 

I also only just realised that the other players around got some rules mixed up, it seems. I asked them if it was possible for the Allarus to fire the Ballistus as well as the axe in one round of shooting. The reply was: Nope, you gotta pick one. It never occurred to me that this could not be right, since my opponent fired all those weapon systems on the aggressors all the time (and having now looked on their profile, I'm quite certain, he wasn't allowed to - he was not in range, at least in round 1 and 2).

 

The concussive nades seem excellent for the teleport tactic - I like that. 

 

As for the match type - I don't know the name. The board was split up into 4 quadrants, each with an objective at it's centre and the fifth and last objective being in the middle of the board. Each round we rolled to see which objective gave 2 instead of the usual 1 VP. There was no choice of deployment whatsoever. With my side of the table, that resulted in 2 objectives out in the open, one right on the opposite side of the gunline. To be fair, same was true for his objective on the other side.

 

Still you are right, I could and should've played hide and seek, but was too bloodthirsty. I actually all out forgot about the objectives by turn 3...that was pretty dumb.

 

Thanks for your input so far, rcoon. All of that has been valuable advice. :)

 

Also: rolling dice on the realm of battle dice is truly terrible. I get that now. And it's not helping if your opponent is rolling and picking up dice faster as I am able to understand what he even needed to roll. I don't think he was cheating, really, but felt that he was sometimes forgetting about the -1 to hit and such...but that might have been down to the time pressure we were under. :/

[swordofmandulis]

Played Chaos Knights last night with my all Infantry list and stormed to a win with a turn 5 tabling and comfortable points victory.

[rcoon]

As far as I understood it, the Land Raider may be overcosted (totally agree), but it being terrible is also dependent on what kind of weaponry my opponent brings. I nevertheless get what you're saying - with the little variety we have in our units, the Land Raider still sticks out as an overcosted and not exactly powerful choice.

 

I think, CP might be one of my core problems, that I need to get a grip on. Not only having too few, but almost not using them. I used on of my 3 for rerolls and thought about using the other 2 on the terminators only to find "Unleash the Lions" to come into effect too late - when the unit is already torn to pieces by massed fire.

 

FGLTC is an interesting choice - puts the beatsticks right in front of my enemy. Good thing I bought the cards, they might help me remember all the startagems better.

 

I also only just realised that the other players around got some rules mixed up, it seems. I asked them if it was possible for the Allarus to fire the Ballistus as well as the axe in one round of shooting. The reply was: Nope, you gotta pick one. It never occurred to me that this could not be right, since my opponent fired all those weapon systems on the aggressors all the time (and having now looked on their profile, I'm quite certain, he wasn't allowed to - he was not in range, at least in round 1 and 2).

 

The concussive nades seem excellent for the teleport tactic - I like that. 

 

As for the match type - I don't know the name. The board was split up into 4 quadrants, each with an objective at it's centre and the fifth and last objective being in the middle of the board. Each round we rolled to see which objective gave 2 instead of the usual 1 VP. There was no choice of deployment whatsoever. With my side of the table, that resulted in 2 objectives out in the open, one right on the opposite side of the gunline. To be fair, same was true for his objective on the other side.

 

Still you are right, I could and should've played hide and seek, but was too bloodthirsty. I actually all out forgot about the objectives by turn 3...that was pretty dumb.

 

Thanks for your input so far, rcoon. All of that has been valuable advice.

 

Also: rolling dice on the realm of battle dice is truly terrible. I get that now. And it's not helping if your opponent is rolling and picking up dice faster as I am able to understand what he even needed to roll. I don't think he was cheating, really, but felt that he was sometimes forgetting about the -1 to hit and such...but that might have been down to the time pressure we were under. :/

A unit may fire all of their ranged weapons during the shooting phase. The only caveat is that if they are combi-weapons they must -1 from their hit rolls with both weapons. Your allarus can shoot both the Ballistus and the axes at the same time.

 

In most match types, you each roll a dice. Whoever wins the dice roll gets to place the 1st objective, taking it in turns until the final objective is placed. Whomever places the last objective (typically the person who lost the dice roll since you get 6 objective markers) gets to choose the deployment type, as well as which deployment zone they want to deploy in. That player then deploys their first unit first. Whoever finishes deploying their entire army first then gets +1 added to a dice roll. This dice roll takes place after all armies have been deployed or put in reserve, and whomever wins gets to take the 1st turn. The opposing player may then at this point roll to steal the initiative, and on a roll of 6, they can go first instead.

 

I can well appreciate being bloodthirsty with custodes. Once you're in melee you utterly wreck face, but getting there is the problem against gunlines. This is why Tau are one of our worst matchups.

 

In terms of hot fire Strategems, Concussion Grenades are boss for charging Allarus (this also affects your other charging units if the Allarus split their shots amongst other units, and it only has to hit, not cause actual damage!). Tanglefoot grenade is absolutely excellent if an opponent is trying to charge your units and needs to make a fairly high roll. Avenge the Fallen is absolutely fantastic if you're charging a large squad of troops into a unit that you know is gonna cause them some severe pain - it can end up benefitting you to lose tonnes of troops since you could end up getting more attacks on surviving units than if you had more troops left alive. Stooping Dive is a game changer if running large bike squads, Piercing Strike turns Spears into Axes with extra AP, and equally Castellan Strike turns Axes into Spears with higher Strength.

 

Victor of the Blood games is an interesting one, allows one of your HQs to reroll a single dice roll a turn (only useful if he survives a few turns tbh). Also Shoulder the Mantle is fantastic for denying your opponent the VP for slaying your WL by moving it to another HQ. Vexilla Teleport Homer is also broken to hell, and causes my opponents a significant amount of pain when I drop 9(!) Wardens 3 inches away from his Knight because he didn't focus my flag carrier that had been advancing every turn. The issue with this strategem is the cunning plan only works when your opponent doesn't know it exists 

Edited July 23, 2019 by rcoon

[Kenzaburo]

Holy moly, rcoon, that's a lot of great info...that I probably should've gotten from reading the rules properly. ;) Seriously, though, this is immensely helpful.

 

 

In most match types, you each roll a dice. Whoever wins the dice roll gets to place the 1st objective, taking it in turns until the final objective is placed. Whomever places the last objective (typically the person who lost the dice roll since you get 6 objective markers) gets to choose the deployment type, as well as which deployment zone they want to deploy in. That player then deploys their first unit first. Whoever finishes deploying their entire army first then gets +1 added to a dice roll. This dice roll takes place after all armies have been deployed or put in reserve, and whomever wins gets to take the 1st turn. The opposing player maythen at this point roll to steal the initiative, and on a roll of 6, they can go first instead.

That alone though boggles my head. My opponent never once mentioned this. Nor did anyone else in the store. All I got was "Here's the table, you set up on that side, I'll be on this." Followed by my opponent placing the 5 objective markers on the table as described above. Then: "We each roll a dice for who gets to go first. Oh, you lost, my first turn. You can try to steal the initiative...nope, you failed. I start." And then the torrents of fire started.

 

To be honest, now I'm starting to feel a bit screwed. This all may have happened due to time constraints, but if I understood your description right, Custodes should have a slight advantage in getting first turn just by lack of models - as long as we are not playing vs Knights.

 

This is basically the first time that I try to play in a store. Before I had only ever played against my best bud and my brother, with whom I started playing 40k over 20 years ago. We only get to play maybe twice a year but then we take our time sticking to the rules for deployment, having a bit of a mix of a friendly narrative game mixed with a slightly competitive edge. We let each other see our dice rolls, explain what's happening and help each other with our next moves - the classic beer and pizza gaming experience.

 

What becomes clearer and clearer to me is, that I need to get a better grasp of the rules, even the pre-game, learn the stratagems and then focus on victory conditions more.

 

Thank you very much for all  the tips on Custodes stratagems. :) Maybe my next game will go a bit better.

[duz_]

Not to stray too far off topic

Deployment depends on what missions you're using

The new Chapter Approved missions use the old style deploy everything then counter deploy as opposed to the Rule Book missions which are you go I go 1 unit at a time.

[rcoon]

This all may have happened due to time constraints, but if I understood your description right, Custodes should have a slight advantage in getting first turn just by lack of models - as long as we are not playing vs Knights.

That sounds like a recipe for whoever your playing against to pick a wonderful side of the table, pick a deployment that benefits them, and equally place objectives in a way that benefits them. Like you say this may not have been malicious and mostly due to time constraints, but not being allowed to place objective markers is just plain ridiculous. A melee army is going to play objectives completely differently to a gunline army. As a Custodes player I do not place any objectives in my deployment zone, since I don't expect any of my units to still be there after Turn 1. We get in melee and wreck face. A single Guardian squad held back to hold an objective is lost spears unable to engage in glorious melee combat.

 

And yes, Custodes and other Elite style armies do get an advantage for going first because of their lack of models, but they're equally balanced this way because they tend not to want to hold units back on objectives. They don't guarantee first turn since they just get +1 to the dice roll and you might roll a 1 while your opponent rolls a 6, but it's still there for balance.

 

_duz is correct above but it doesn't sound like you were playing one of the new Chapter Approved mission types. Most people play one of the six Maelstrom of War mission types.

http://games-workshop.ru/wh40k8ed/the-rules/matched-play/#Maelstrom-of-War-Missions

[MeatGrinder]

Why do people take spears on wardens rather than axes? Axes seem just better overall. Is the extra rend that valuable or is it for the strat?

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Why do people take spears on wardens rather than axes? Axes seem just better overall. Is the extra rend that valuable or is it for the strat?

If you have command points to blow on them they are better with Spears and the +1 to wound due to AP.

 

Axes are typically better simply due to the spread of saves (depending on your meta) but Spears are better vs marine equivalent or lower due to the +1 to wound with better ap from the stratagem.

[orkusmorkus]

My group is in the habit of always reading out and following exactly the mission/deployment instructions from the book as we set up. I would insist on doing this if playing someone new also, it just saves a lot of hassles I think, even when you think you're familiar enough already.

 

Would recommend doing so yourself if the mission setup is becoming a problem.

[duz_]

All sage advice but any more on the topic probably belongs in the OR or Amicus :tu:

[burningsky25]

 

Why do people take spears on wardens rather than axes? Axes seem just better overall. Is the extra rend that valuable or is it for the strat?

If you have command points to blow on them they are better with Spears and the +1 to wound due to AP.

 

Axes are typically better simply due to the spread of saves (depending on your meta) but Spears are better vs marine equivalent or lower due to the +1 to wound with better ap from the stratagem.

 

 

The thing is, unless you really want to wound T5 on 2's the axes are still just better in practically every situation.  The only time that spears with the +1 to wound stratagem have a better wound roll than axes naturally do is against T5.  And axes can match the ap of the spears with a stratagem themselves, and it means they don't waste the extra ap against tough invulnerable saves.  In a different army setting perhaps it would be a toss up, but in a faction where anti-tank is the hardest thing to get every model that can take axe should have one.

 

I don't know anyone who takes spears for the sake of efficiency, normally it's because of rule of cool.  Guardian Spears are after all the iconic weapon of the custodian guard.  

 

 

As far as I understood it, the Land Raider may be overcosted (totally agree), but it being terrible is also dependent on what kind of weaponry my opponent brings. I nevertheless get what you're saying - with the little variety we have in our units, the Land Raider still sticks out as an overcosted and not exactly powerful choice.

 

I'll mention this because I've used the land raider in probably half a dozen or more games as Custodian Guard - until the recent buffs to the Caladius this was still some of the most reliable ranged damage we had.  This came at the massive cost of not being able to shoot after disengaging from combat.  I learned this repeatedly in early games I played with it, and you quickly realize that unless you can prevent enemy models from engaging it it's not worth taking.  To that end I would never use it as a transport, but as a gunboat it can still function reasonably well.  There are things now that have a clear advantage over it, so you won't see it run hardly ever, but if that's all you have I don't think it's a debilitating component of your army like many do.  

[Kenzaburo]

Thanks guys, a lot of sage advice here.

 

I went with spears on my wardens exactly because of rule of cool. But from what I've seen at my store, there's almost no FW stuff, no knights and not a lot of big monsters either (weird, huh?). So spears do work fine in my meta, I assume.

 

About that Land Raider: I'm gonna try it, see, how to handle that and how my opponents will deal with it. In the last game, the LR would have been able to snipe that Redemptor of the field in no time, saving me from a lot of hassling fire. But the basic critique remains, it's way too expensive points-wise. The caladius on the other hand might be better, but for the love of me, I just don't like the look of the grav-tanks and even less so the Orion. That's why I'm not gonna use them. My next game will also be against Chaos with tons of cultists, so the bikes will be an even more integral part of the army, I guess, to clear all that chaff.

[rcoon]

Why do people take spears on wardens rather than axes? Axes seem just better overall. Is the extra rend that valuable or is it for the strat?

I take axes on everything except troops. I much prefer them for splitting armour in half. Anecdotally they're far more reliable damage-wise than spears on enemy armour. The AP on the spears is usually irrelevant, since my meta is 90% Knights and Heavy Armour/Monsters and they all have dumb invuln saves and I need that S8 on the Axes. If I'm desperate I'll use the axe strat.

Edited July 24, 2019 by rcoon

[shanewatts]

Axes all day, unless it is Solarite Gauntlets or Interceptor Lances haha.

[Vexillia Primus]

Bottom line up front: I normally have close games in tournament games. Usually by a matter of a couple points, win or lose.

 

My current list:

HQ: Trajann (Iaxion Hale as a proxy)

Sheild captain with terminator armor, axe, misericordia,and Eagle's eye

Troops: 4 man guard squad with 2 spears and 2 sword and shield. 2x 3 man guard squad with 2 spears and a sword and shield.

Elites:vexilus with gatekeeper, miseracordia, and vexillia magnifica

Achilles dreadnought with lastrum, infurnus, and spear.

Heavy Support: 2x 5 man Sagattarum with miseracordia

Telemon dreadnought with fist and storm cannon.

 

 

Current strategy I have been using is to bubble wrap Vex and Trajann with the Sagattarum for my base of fire with my Achillus near by. My guard squads on the flanks or on objectives (game dependent). I drop in the SC to distract opponent. I pay for the golden light to drop in the Telemon if I need him across the board without getting shot to pieces. If the opponent doesn't have anything too dangerous to him, then I just walk him across the board to save the CP.

 

I do have a wish list that has 3 Telemon and 2 Achillus, Trajann, SC, troop tax units, and a Vex.

[MeatGrinder]

Looking at something like this for an event in october. One of the first majors tournaments in our area.

 

BATTALION

Trajann

Sc on DJB, bolter, auric

 

3x 3 custodes w/ 2 spears, 1 shield

 

VANGUARD

SC on DJB w/ bolter, eagles eye

 

Vexillus w/ magnifica

6 wardens w/ axes

3 Aquillon w/ fists and bolters

 

Rounds out to 1980. Im also looking at the pyrite spears to fill that tank killing niche, and a spot in the vanguard. Another alternative is a telemon, and Im interested in the operative strat, but we are so low on cps already is it worth it?

[Gore Crow]

I just played my first game with my Custodes! My opponent and I play only occasionally nowadays - this is our third or fourth game of 8th. Not competitive at all; we forgot about using our CP altogether. 

My opponents were some misguided Cadians and after weathering some fire my big axes tore them a new one.

Nothing useful to report but I'm just excited as my previous army was dark eldar so being able to shrug off so much damage is just wonderful!

 

[Dallas Drake]

Anyone got any experience or tips against Nids/GSC. I’m playing my first Custodes game against them and I’m pretty sure I’m facing Kraken stealers and hand flamer/abberant gsc.

 

My list is:

 

Shield captain, bike + 3++ relic

Shield captain on foot w/axe

 

Vexilus w/axe + magnifica

 

Custodian guard x3, 1 with shield

Custodian guard x3, 1 with shield

Custodian guard x3, 1 with shield

 

6x Vertus Praetors

 

Caladius w/twin Iliastus cannon

Caladius w/twin Iliastus cannon

 

Operative Requisition Sanctioned - Cullexus

 

1997 points.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I like your list a lot for mono build. Are you going to play an ITC Mission ?

[Dallas Drake]

I like your list a lot for mono build. Are you going to play an ITC Mission ?

I think just Maelstrom missions. I’m mostly worried about the lack of screening. I have to accept that I’ll likely get charged which is worrying.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Well Custodes are quite durable so there is that.

[rcoon]

Telemon just arrived! Waiting on a custom base to glue him on to.

 

[sultansean]

 

I think just Maelstrom missions. I’m mostly worried about the lack of screening. I have to accept that I’ll likely get charged which is worrying.

 

 

The Caladius is actually quite a good screen with the -2 to charge and fly. And it is durable enough that lots of unit that charge it won't be able to kill it. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Caladius is just amazing really .

[Dallas Drake]

Good to hear. I plan on running the dual Caladius for a good few games as I just bought them but I also quite like the idea of having a reasonably competitive foot list. Are Wardens worth investing in or is a big unit of Allarus better?