Pater Lachrymarum: Boudan's Lamenters Thread

[Boudan]

I would like a place to put my musings about the Lamenters chapter, and the works-in-progress of my Lamenters army.  Without further introductory remarks:

 

First Lamentations on Blood Angels Codex, 8^th Edition

 

Only last night (January 29, 2018) did I purchase and read a copy of the “new” Blood Angels codex.  I immediately skipped to “Successor Chapters” and was happily surprised to see that the Lamenters had re-entered the Blood Angels textbook as more than a throw-away sentence (E.g. Blood Angels Codex, 7^th Edition).

 

The Lamenters again enjoy the same short-shrift as the other ‘famous’ successor sons of Sanguinius: the Flesh Tearers (duh), Angels Encarmine, Angels Sanguine, Carmine Blades, Angels Vermillion, and Blood Drinkers.  The Knights of the Chalice, a “purely Primaris” chapter are now listed for marketing reasons, surely.  The Knights of Blood have again been omitted, which is unfortunate.

 

What is NOTABLE with all capital letters is the tone of the two paragraph description of the Lamenters chapter.

 

The blurb:

 

“The Lamenters have had a tumultuous – often fraught – history.  They have twice been brought to the very brink of destruction, first during the Badab War and later in battle with the overwhelming horror of the Tyranids. Each time they have endured, despite inherent instabilities in their Chapter gene-seed, and their Chapter Master claims that with every travail they have overcome, the Lamenters have only grown stronger.”

 

 

That is some optimistic stuff! I’ve never personally read anything about the Lamenters that isn’t tinged with A) Boo-Hoo Sadness; and B) Ominous Foreboding.  As I own a physical copy of everything previously published mentioning the Lamenters, I believe this to be a first. In the past, Lamenters fluff has always spoken about the future as either non-existent or EVEN WORSE than the present trashy circumstances.  So, we’re definitely seeing a shift in outlook for the chapter.  Could this be sloppy continuity or rushed space filling? Possibly!  It is also perhaps, a possible ending of one thing that made Lamenters unique: their over-the-top pathos.  It was hard to be the MOST SAD in a fictional universe comprised chiefly of suffering, but our Boys in Mustard did it.

 

N.B.: I will say for the record that I have offered Games Workshop the exclusive opportunity to hire me to write all of their Lamenters-related material and have (shockingly) been rebuffed; if the tonal change is accidental, fault lays squarely on their shoulders.

 

The blurb is also technically inaccurate - the best kind of inaccurate. 

 

Imperial Armour Vol. 9 states that the Lamenters were reduced to approximately 200 brothers during the Siege of Corillia in M38, as a defender against the Ninth Black Crusade.

 

The ill-conceived participation in the Badab War cost the chapter over 500 battle brothers, and the resulting Penitence Crusade cost them an undisclosed additional number of casualties.  So, it is true that the chapter has nearly been wiped out twice, but wrong to state that the Hive Fleet Kraken imbroglio was a separate cause of near-extinction.  They were almost dead already, thank you very much!

 

The Chapter has also suffered a decimation (10% or greater total casualties) on at least one other occasion, when over 200 battle brothers were killed liberating the human slave population of Slaughterhouse III from WAAAGH! Skargor as a part of the Corinthian Crusade in 701.M41 (see: IA9.1).

 

 

[Lord_Caerolion]

The only thing that annoys me about the 8th Ed piece is that its scheme for the Lamenters shows a completely different method of displaying Company/Squad markings. The Codex shows the Marine as having a white numeral for the squad number in the Tactical symbol on the shoulder-pad, while the left knee-pad is coloured to show the Company. Forge World, on the other hand, had no squad markings, with the Company being shown as a white numeral most often on the shoulderpad. I know it's to be expected, but consistency is always nice.

[Boudan]

My first WIP is a bit odd, and I’m starting this log a great deal more than half-way through my original intended project. I’ve restarted painting after a complete separation from the hobby since September. I have an overdue RTS pledge to honor, but here are my first efforts.

 

Finishing out my remaining CCW scouts. I don’t like the plastic sculpts, so eBay is in my future considering the new scout-friendly 8th edition.

 

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w371/Brendanguilford/0B920D61-D140-4AB5-BFBE-D2F986C33C46_zpszjb0st2s.jpg

 

Part of the RTS vow, a FW Assault Cannon turret.

 

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w371/Brendanguilford/C8058FB7-7E38-434C-8DCF-36D92AAD1684_zpsvlfquxsz.jpg

[Boudan]

An actual work-in-progress, my take on Malakim Phoros, or at least a Lamenters chapter master. I did not follow the fluff description of golden armour, because I did not want to.

 

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w371/Brendanguilford/2F6349E4-15E8-45C5-B9E4-1BA26FB2B769_zpshh7upy8d.jpg

[Lord_Caerolion]

Awesome start to Malakim Phoros there! What bitz are you going to use for his sword?

[Boudan]

Awesome start to Malakim Phoros there! What bitz are you going to use for his sword?

Thanks Lord_Caerolion, I appreciate the encouragement. 

 

I am probably going to use an Encarmine Sword bit from the Sanguinary Guard kit.  The chapter master of the Lamenters carries a power weapon called the "Glaive Encarmine" and an Inferno pistol.  A glaive is a long-handled long sword basically, so the swords from the Sang. Guard are a pretty good fit.  I'd be open to suggestions though!  

 

I have been magnetizing the arms and backs of every close-combat miniature since 8th edition was released.  So, I will also paint up a thunder hammer, storm shield and jump pack for this unit - gotta have that smashy captain everyone loves.

 

Thanks again for the kind feedback!

[Boudan]

How to keep it “fluffy” for the Lamenters in 8^th Edition?

 

Troops

 

Scouts have always been the biggest sticking point to me in the struggle between playability and adhering to what the “fluff” has told us about the Lamenters Chapter.  We know that in approximately 912.M41 the chapter was sentenced to their 100-year penitence crusade.  Also known is that as a part of that punishment, the Lamenters could not take on any new recruits to replace their losses.  This does not forbid the elevation of current scouts to full battle-brother status.  It seems likely that the chapter would have promoted most, if not all, of their 10^th company to a battle company immediately (they had only 311 surviving battle brothers at the onset of the crusade.)

 

So, in my mind, a “fluffy” Lamenters army prior to the timeline advancement would, in theory, have most units available to Blood Angels successor chapters, but not scouts.

 

Fast Attack

 

8^th Edition Blood Angels lists have really taken a step backward in the Fast Attack (FA) unit type.  Assault Marines, formerly the backbone of many Blood Angels Codex lists, are now mostly absent.  This is a little unfortunate for the fluffy Lamenters player, as the chapter is specifically described as favoring “shock assault tactics.”  As the chapter is relatively poor in materiel, combatants and experience, it would seem more fluffy for an army list to have Assault Marines, instead of Vanguard Veterans.

 

A lot of recent lists are using Tarantulas, a Forge World (FW) unit, to fill those FA unit slots for Brigade-sized detachments.  Tarantulas don't seem "shock assault" to me, despite being a great unit for the game, generally. The other FA choices have their supporters: Bike Squads, Land Speeders and Primaris Interceptors.  Also available is the Land Speeder Tempest, again thanks to FW.

 

The fluff in the Blood Angels Codex, 8^th Edition shows that the Lamenters Chapter A) still exists, and B) has taken on Primaris Marines.  So, all of these game choices are supported, (or are not disapproved of), by previously published Games Workshop written works.

 

[Aside: I’m curious to see how other Lamenters fans are incorporating the 8^th Edition change in Company and Squad markings into their versions of the Lamenters chapter.  I never committed to the half-baked FW livery, so I could paint up my whole chapter to reflect the most-recent rendition of the Lamenters’ unit designation scheme.  We don't have a complete key though, only one Company's color has been shown - the 4th Company.]

 

Elites

 

Fluff written prior to the Blood Angels Codex, 8^th Edition stated that the Lamenters chapter had not experienced the Black Rage “until recently.” (See: IA9.1)  Death Company (DC) units would not have been very fluffy, unless you’re focusing on a narrow band of time for the chapter, and keeping the DC unit rather small.  But now that the Lamenters have manifested the flaw, DC is IN.

 

Sanguinary Guard units don't seem very fluffy.  These suits of power armour are the *most* rare – priceless pieces of war as art.  The Blood Angels had 27(?) of these guys, in total - before Hive Fleet Kraken hit Baal. Unless the Lamenters somehow made these suits in their down-time, I don’t think they make sense pre- or post- 8^th Edition.  Similar arguments for Terminator armour are obvious.

 

We know the Chapter can claim at least one Dreadnought: Chyron, lately of the Deathwatch Kill-Team “Talon.”  We also have an illustration from IA9.1 of an unnamed Lamenters Furioso dreadnought.  I think it is a *real* stretch to display the chapter with a Contemptor dreadnought, but man are they cool.

 

Flyers

 

This is where some deviation from the ‘norm’ makes the most sense.  We know that the Lamenters use a lot of flying vehicles, and boast an above-average interstellar fleet size due to being fleet-based.  It is completely fluffy to have Stormhawk Interceptors, Storm Ravens, Storm Talons, and even Thunderhawks of both varieties.  The capstone project for my Lamenters army will be a Thunderhawk Transporter.  (Someday…)

 

These are just my interpretations, and I would love to hear other interested people’s opinions.

 

Thanks for reading my thoughts!

[brother_b]

Base your army at year 101, after they've atoned. All the scouts and primaris you could want. Just an idea.

[NemoVonUtopia]

I'm planning a Lementers army set after their crusade so it will be mostly primaris supporting elite veterans that survived. I agree that death company and sanginary guard don't seem very fluffy. I am considering adding things like contemptors or sicarens. I would justify this by saying they came across lost great crusade supplies on their crusade.

[Leonaides]

Sanguinary guard units exist in all the successors. While its quite possible that only 2nd founding chapters actually posess original suits used during the hh, the lamentors would still have similar artisan crafted suits and their sanguinary guard would still wear the best armour available. The have had several thousand years to create a stock of suits after all.

 

And while the ba's only had 27 guard, its possible that that was more a factor of how many marines had been deemed worthy of being a guard than the availability of sets of armour. Its an even tougher entry criteria than the first company, and they are not kept at full strength if there arent suitable candidates based off the 200 years it took for the ultramarines to recover after behemoth.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I'd kind of gotten around the restrictions on the Lamenters, in that I'm basing mine around a "lost" strike cruiser prior to the end of the Badab War, and the unknown "restitution" paid to the Forge World of Angstrom. Basically, they were found as "salvage" and the restitution is the Inquisition conveniently forgetting about them, and recording them as fully lost. What's actually happened is that they're being used by the Forge World to try to hunt down Huron for what he did, so have the backing of a relatively powerful Forge World when it comes to equipment and materiel. I'm keeping the blatantly Blood Angel stuff to a minimum, so I'll only be using one Baal, and one Furioso dread, with no Sanguinary Guard (they are rebuilding from a Demi-Company, after all).

 

As for markings, I'm going with the Forge World method, but as my Strike Force believes the wider Chapter is dead (a convenient lie told to them by the Mechanicus priests who took them in), and that they're essentially on a suicide mission, while the main armour is painted in the Chapter scheme, the "Company" shoulder-pads will all be marked with the Death Company saltire.

 

I have since added some Primaris reinforcements to them, with these planned to instead have the "normal" Forge World markings, maybe even the ones shown in the Codex, as the rest of my force sees these as free of the shame that has cursed the rest of them. The Primaris have a future, the fate of the original force is to die in battle taking down Huron.

 

Lastly, in regards to Fast Attack choices, since the eventual plan is to build up to a Battle Company, with auxiliary and Primaris support, I've gone with one Assault and one Bike squad for the Company itself.

[Boudan]

What I wrote previously was my take on why the Lamenters would not have many, or any, of certain units.  We all operate with a certain amount of 'headcanon' though, and that is one of the true strengths of the hobby - the room to tell your own stories.

 

I disagree with Leonaides' rationale about Sanguinary Guard because what little Lamenters fluff that exists suggest that the chapter was devastated and pillaged at the end of their participation in the Babad war. Then the chapter was forced into a penitence crusade, immediately following several years of mass imprisonment.  These don't seem like circumstances where things like Sanguinary Guard armour (which is fancier-than artificer armour, Angelus bolters and Encarmine swords) could be easily produced or replenished.  

 

Could such materiel have been made in the quiet moments of the 100-year crusade? Sure, I guess? I am not familiar enough with the nitty-gritty of how long or complicated it takes to make power armour into artificer armour. Or how to produce the rare weapons or special jump packs or death masks.  My impression was that such undertakings are/were difficult and uh... time-consuming.  Otherwise, wouldn't every single marine be rockin' out in this kit? For that matter, how would the remaining sons of the chapter acquire the knowledge, let alone the ingredients.  They aren't Forge World Magos.  Knowledge is the most rare commodity in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium.

 

A final quibble: Azkaellon made certain that the Sanguinary Guard legacy of the Blood Angels Legion was extended to every successor that arose from the dissolution of the IX Legion.  For the record, the known 2nd Founding Blood Angels successor chapters are:  Angels Vermillion, Angels Encarmine, Angels Sanguine, Blood Drinkers and the Flesh Tearers. 

 

Are the Lamenters a Blood Angels successor that arose from the dissolution of the IX Legion?  They were created by the Imperium in 991.M35.  I suppose you could say that *every* successor indirectly sprung from the IX Legion.  I don't really buy that argument.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Were the Lamenters pillaged, though? I know the Mantis Warriors were, and the Executioners had things held in trust by the Salamanders until they finish their crusade, but I thought the Lamenters escaped such looting? Maybe I'm just misremembering though.

 

In regards to the Successor Chapter thing, we unfortunately know that the Blood Angels are apparently one of the First Founding Chapters that won't stand for any Successors having different cultural practices. After all, the Carmine Blades were known as the Swords of Haldroth, until the Blood Angels realised they were a Successor, and forced them to change their name, and to follow their traditions and practices, changing their Apothecaries into Sanguinary Priests. 

Apparently you can't use Sanguinius' geneseed without everything you do or use having a blood reference somewhere, even if originally you were different. Stupid, but that's what GW has written.

 

"Oh, that's a nice Chapter you've got there. What are you called? The Fire Drakes? HA! HAhaha! No. No you're not. You're the Blood Drakes now. What's that? Your Apothecaries don't carry cups everywhere? Nonono, you see, they're supposed to be called Sanguinary Priests, so lets restructure the command organization of your Chapter to make them highly influential, and here's some grails so they can feed blood to the injured. Also, here are some jump packs to use, and you'll damn well like it!"

[Boudan]

The Minotaurs were given carte blanche permission to loot. They even took one of the Lamenters two battle barges. I’ll try to find the reference and amend my statement if I’m exaggerating.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Nope, you are indeed correct, the Minotaurs got salvage rights of the Lamenters fleet and the wargear of the fallen.

[Boudan]

Lamenters chapter master complete!

 

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w371/Brendanguilford/44CA2BD2-3E54-49C9-8120-25305CCE8FB9_zpsunk7zwwc.jpg

 

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w371/Brendanguilford/361381E8-8561-4D8D-B5C0-F54B0906B0D0_zps1jxb1qpk.jpg

 

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w371/Brendanguilford/67D1D5F2-307B-47EA-9421-BFCA04B761DB_zpsmsrsyfbz.jpg

 

The power weapon is meant to represent Victory’s Price, the power weapon that brings victory but also the likely death of the bearer. The scrolls wrapped around the polearm are my first attempt at greenstuff “sculpting.”

Edited February 6, 2018 by Boudan

[NemoVonUtopia]

The scroll looks good.

[Lord_Caerolion]

The spear has come out pretty good, I might have to steal the idea for my planned conversion of a Lieutenant. Gotta have the spear able to hold him up, after all