The Unseen Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I wonder if Iron Hands' chapter tactics might not shine with primaris in general and intercessors in particular. You get a ~30% chance of surviving a 2 damage hit. I can tell you with a 5+++ from the Banner of Sacrifice for BA, they soak up multi-damage hits pretty well. Vs Dark Reapers for example, passing a single 5+++ from the first shot means they soak a 2nd one, and then probably die. But it almost, not quite (you can fail both fnp rolls of course, but your more likely to pass 1) doubles their survivability vs 2 damage weapons. It makes a big difference. Iron Hands have a worse fnp, but it doesn't rely on a unique aura buff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I run a primaris and dreadnought IH list and it's pretty tough to shift when playing against normal lists all I need is a primaris tech marine and those dreads would become immovable objects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Finally building my Flesh Tearers. I'm rocking 40 Intercessors. These guys are work horses for Blood Angels. With the +1 to wound, improved boltguns and access to a slew of other options it is just too hard to pass up. I posted my infantry list in the list forum if anyone is interested in seeing how I run Intercessors. Be warned. I am a fan of bolters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momerathe Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 Finally building my Flesh Tearers. I'm rocking 40 Intercessors. These guys are work horses for Blood Angels. With the +1 to wound, improved boltguns and access to a slew of other options it is just too hard to pass up. I posted my infantry list in the list forum if anyone is interested in seeing how I run Intercessors. Be warned. I am a fan of bolters. You weren't kidding! BA are really tempting, I have to admit. And I do like the color scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Yeah I think BA make anything with 2 attacks a model really solid. Probably the strongest Chapter Tactic in the game. 40 Intercessors - exactly how I think they should be ran! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Yep, I too run with 30-40 intercessors as standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Intercessors are just way to good to not take. Also very fluffy with the aftermath of Devastation of Baal. My list is actually quite fluffy for the Flesh Tearers too. Love the new Primaris line and Intercessors fit so many key elements. I noticed a lot of people didn't even realize that Primaris basically have a upgraded bolter and a chainsword. These guys are solid. So happy with GW and the route they have taken with Space Marines in general so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Chainsword? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Chainsword? A normal tactical marine has 1 attack. Chainswords attack at user S, AP0 D1 but give one additional attack. Primaris have 2 attacks base at S4 AP0 D1. Effectively they are all equipped with Chainswords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momerathe Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 I've put up my own take on the concept in the army list forum: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345807-2k-red-talons-iron-hands-primaris/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoic Raptor Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 A normal tactical marine has 1 attack. Chainswords attack at user S, AP0 D1 but give one additional attack. Primaris have 2 attacks base at S4 AP0 D1. Effectively they are all equipped with Chainswords. But if they had a chainsword, they'd get 3 instead. So kind of a false equivalency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Also if they take a Powersword (sergeant) they still have an additional attack. ^^ It's really better to just say they have a Veteran statline with an additional wound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 But if they had a chainsword, they'd get 3 instead. So kind of a false equivalency. What? No. If they had a chainsword than their attack profile would be 1 and not 2. It is 2. So effectively they have a chainsword built into their rules. Also if they take a Powersword (sergeant) they still have an additional attack. ^^ It's really better to just say they have a Veteran statline with an additional wound. This makes more sense. Thanks sfPanzer! I'll use that from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 But if they had a chainsword, they'd get 3 instead. So kind of a false equivalency. What? No. If they had a chainsword than their attack profile would be 1 and not 2. It is 2. So effectively they have a chainsword built into their rules. He's saying that if Primaris had a Chainsword they'd get 3 instead. So under same conditions still +1 attack. That's why you can't say Primaris are Marines with a Chainsword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 He's saying that if Primaris had a Chainsword they'd get 3 instead. So under same conditions still +1 attack. That's why you can't say Primaris are Marines with a Chainsword. I see where you are coming from, I disagree. But I understand. I'll drop it though. I plan on just using the vet statline like you suggested in the future to avoid any confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoic Raptor Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 What? No. If they had a chainsword than their attack profile would be 1 and not 2. It is 2. So effectively they have a chainsword built into their rules. So you're trying to say that giving a chainsword to a Primaris Marine would decrease the number of attacks they get? Let's spell it out - if you gave a chainsword to a Primaris, they'd get three attacks instead of the 2 they have by default. You're reminding me of the people who'd say "why buy a faster processor? I can overclock my 3.0 GHz to be as fast as your 3.2!" as if I couldn't overclock the 3.2 faster, too. As Panzer said, think of it as a veteran statline plus one wound. That way you won't get confused when they're able to take other weapons - although if you bring Primaris with chainswords against me, you are always welcome to roll one fewer die instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 What? No. If they had a chainsword than their attack profile would be 1 and not 2. It is 2. So effectively they have a chainsword built into their rules. So you're trying to say that giving a chainsword to a Primaris Marine would decrease the number of attacks they get? Let's spell it out - if you gave a chainsword to a Primaris, they'd get three attacks instead of the 2 they have by default. You're reminding me of the people who'd say "why buy a faster processor? I can overclock my 3.0 GHz to be as fast as your 3.2!" as if I couldn't overclock the 3.2 faster, too. As Panzer said, think of it as a veteran statline plus one wound. That way you won't get confused when they're able to take other weapons - although if you bring Primaris with chainswords against me, you are always welcome to roll one fewer die instead. I was trying to drop the conversation. But since you want to keep it going what I was comparing was Intercessors with Tactical marines. Intercessors are like tacial marines with a built in chainsword. Tactical Marines have 1 attack for the non-sgt. Intercessors have 2 attacks. Give a tactical marine a chainsword and all the sudden... 2 attacks just like the Intercessors. Can we please drop this now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 If you want to continue that, please stop including me in your quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 If you want to continue that, please stop including me in your quotes. I'm confused. I thought I was only quoting Knight of Lupus. My apologies. Anyway... Intercessors are awesome. I am starting to wonder if it is better to have them in 10 man squads or 5 man. The goal is to keep them out of close combat. So would it be better just to have 10 man squads to make them harder to move, benefit from psychic powers more, and not have to pay the extra points for the power sword? Or is it better to have two 5 man squads? What do you guys/gals think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Weird, it told me you quoted one of my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I can't think of any advantage a unit of 10 would have over two units of 5. Maybe as BA the 5++ psychic power, tho I think I'd value the additional Powersword more. Especially considering the BA Psyker usually are already busy casting something else. Having less drops I guess. On the other hand two units of 5 give you tactical flexibility and let you fill Troop slots for Battalion/Brigade faster, give you and additional Sergeant for free and your opponent is more likely to overkill the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joukernaut Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I can think of several reasons to field a squad of ten. The use of stratagems like scions of guilliman, lower dropcount, less killpoints, more attacks in closecombat when being charged or one group doesnt make the charge. Combat squadding two grenadelaunchers in one group, a squad of ten looks cool, etc, etc. Though 2x5 is usually better in a competitive environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofish7591 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Correct me if I am wrong, but having two grenade launchers in one combat squad doesn't actually do anything. All the grenade launchers do is change the range on your grenades to 30 inches, you can still only have one model "throw" one grenade, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 That's right. And more attacks in close combat is easily counter argumented by "being able to fall back with one squad and keep shooting with the other". Dunno about killpoints. It's been quite some time since I've played with killpoints. However larger squads are harder to hide and easier to focus down so you might give away less killpoints but you lose more guys more easily. I acknowledged the use of Stratagems and Powers, however I can't think of any where it's actually worth fielding Intercessors as 10. A Stratagem that lets you re-roll all hits for them? Meh, it's still "only" AP-1 Bolter. Not sure if I'd want to spend CP for that. In melee it's not even AP-1. Getting additional shots for each 6 on the to-hit roll? Same 'problem' of being just Bolter. Infiltrating would be a Stratagem potentially worth using tho alongside with Aggressors. A Power to let them re-roll charge and advance rolls and always fight first? Not the worst but also not exactly a match winner on Intercessors. Ignoring Mortal wounds on a 4+ is neat but probably better on something like Hellblaster, Aggressors or Inceptors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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