Coming back to the game.

[Darkangeldentist]

I am slowly getting back into 40K. The release of 8th grabbed my attention and the first few small games were fun and quick. The changes to the game has sped it up and enlivened the feel to the game. Some things are catching me out, such as the way modifiers interact with re-rolls, mortal wounds versus special saves taken to ignore wounds and the plethora of unique rules and costings. So this thread is meant to be something of a blog, soapbox and chat group to talk about my experiences and thoughts about the Unforgiven.

 

Fluff changes:

 

The new book contained some difficult to swallow changes, I am not a fan of primaris marines so was especially wary about how necessary GW had made them. I was pleasantly surprised to realise though that pretty much all of the new and unfamiliar units are simply another option. My lists look, feel and play remarkably similar to my old lists and this is a comforting surprise. They operate on the table quite differently because of how some of the changes affect the units. The changes to movement and deep striking keeps catching me out but I really like the impact it has on how movement and positioning matter. I can't say I'm a huge fan of bubble wrapping to counter enemy reserves and fast flankers but it definitely adds a much greater give & take aspect to piece trading. Being able to disengage from combats by falling back has so far proven one of the most influential changes to my games. 

 

Points or Power levels:

 

I like power levels. Point costs and values are still probably the more balanced way to play but there is something nice about writing a list where you can put the list together in just a couple of minutes because you just have to worry about the units and not individual wargear. I go to a couple of clubs and at one of them power levels are the default whereas the other prefers to use points. At this stage I am happy with either as each is proving advantageous for list creation/exploitation.

 

My most recent pair of games used each. A small 50 power game to introduce someone to the new system and a 1500pt game against the newest shiny the Adeptus Custodes. 

 

50 Power list

 

Asmodai

Lieutenant with storm bolter & power sword

Min tactical squad with plasma pistol & plasmagun

Min tactical squad with plasma pistol & plasmagun

Full tactical squad with power sword, meltagun and lascannon

Venerable Dreadnought with assault cannon

Company champion

Apothecary 

2x Ravenwing attack bikes with multimeltas

 

This list was pitted against Ahriman and a Rubric force of mostly Thousand sons (using the index list) with a forgefiend for some ranged oomph! The game used open war cards which are an interesting if very unpredictable way to play. The game itself was very fast paced with our deployment allowing both forces to deploy close to each other and objective scoring required aggressive manoeuvring. With the core of the Dark angel force deployed in the centre of the board and the Thousand sons wanting to get close so as to make the most of their rapid-fire and flamer weapons (and psychic powers) gambled on being able to wipe out the marines quickly. A big punch-up in the centre wiped out the sorcerer's minions and dragged them forward in front of the remaining fodder leaving them victim to the multimeltas of the ravenwing. Honour to the venerable dreadnought who not only led the charge to engage and slaughter the bulk of the rubric marines as well as ripped the forgefiend. 

 

 

1500pt list

 

Azrael

Asmodai

Lt with power sword and storm bolter

Apothecary

Company champion (eye of the unseen)

5x company veterans each with a storm bolter, 1 with a storm shield, 3 power swords, 1 power maul.

Ravenwing apothecary

5 marines with plasma pistol and plasmagun

5 marines with plasma pistol and plasmagun

10 marines with power sword

10 marines with power sword

5 devastators with 3 missile launchers and 1 lascannon

rhino with 2x storm bolters

Ravenwing darkshroud with heavy bolter

 

This list had to face the might of the Adeptus Custodes and I am in some ways grateful that my opponent was very limited in his options. His list featured the new special character, a second HQ, 3 five strong squads of custodes (1 squad with halberds and 2 with swords and storm shields) plus 2 venerable contemptor dreadnoughts. I can confidently say that trying to kill the new custodes is an arduous task without the right tools. Fortunately, plasma is probably one of the best options and weapons from the dark age helps inordinately. As does Azrael's aura bubbles of re-rolls and invulnerable saves. I was also helped that the scenario was from the rulebook (secure and control) which meant my opponent initially left one of his squads guarding his objective, effectively removing them from the game for most of it. 

 

I want to take time to give special mention to the Company veterans who saved Azrael's life because of the honour guard rule, dealt out impressive firepower with those stormbolters and respectable melee clout but man of the match was the storm shield guy who tanked every hit the custodes assigned to his unit. With Azrael and Asmodai nearby at all times they were very impressive and will definitely be fielding them again. Equipped this way they weren't even very expensive. The near horde of marines may not have been the biggest contributors (although the plasma weapons provided a steady stream of multi-damage firepower) and I was glad to have them. The devastators proved helpful for quick deletion of any model that did manage to fail it's save and the darkshroud was helpful in lessening the impact of the enemies guns. (Particularly because the dreadnoughts also had to contend with the mod for moving and firing heavy weapons. 

 

 

The following are some more detailed thoughts about some of the units I've been using.

 

Apothecaries:

 

These have fast become a staple of my lists and with the discovery of how well veterans can protect out characters when they get embroiled in combats I am increasingly enamoured of them. Healing a few wounds on a character is great but bringing a member of a unit back to the fight can be game changing. The basic apothecary is good because he's cheap, innocuous and rarely appears worth the effort to attack. The ravenwing apothecary however can contribute quite substantially thanks to his plasma talon and the mobility afforded by his bike. He keeps impressing me but the risk of not doing anything with his guns if I try to bring a model back does make him more focused on healing wounded heroes.

 

 

Company champion:

 

I've been giving him the relic "Eye of the unseen" to ensure he goes before enemy characters and the extra mod to enemy leadership has come into play in a couple of other games. Mostly though I regard him as just an amazing bargain for what you get. Azrael and Asmodai make him more survivable and threatening with his blade of caliban too so he has so far proven a very worthwhile addition to the army. 

 

 

Company veterans:

 

In the last book my head was alway seething with ideas for how I'd like to field these guys but I rarely if ever put them on the table. Considering their versatility and low base cost I am going to be experimenting and sticking them in lists a lot more now. 

I am not sure about precisely how they body guard rule works against weapons with damage over 1 since it says the roll to intercept the hit comes after the character has lost a wound so currently I'm working around the assumption that it applies after damage. (So if I fail a save on Azrael against a damage 3 weapon I would then make 3 rolls to pass the damage on to the veterans. Potentially resulting in 3 mortal wounds on the veteran squad.) This can attrition the squad down very quickly so I doubt I will ever spend too many points on every member of the unit, however as a means of keeping our characters alive that little bit longer I feel this unit is now very valuable indeed.

 

 

 

Hopefully in the near future I will be adding some more hobby related content as I get back into painting figures. Currently on the painting table are some Deathwing knights and the company veterans I have talked about in this first post. 

[N1SB]

Welcome back, and thanks for sharing your thoughts as a returning player.  This will be useful as a snapshot of your thoughts at this time.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

Welcome back, DAD!

 

Good to see a veteran returning :)

[Interrogator Stobz]

Welcome Back.

 

Go directly to Cell 42, do not pass Go, do not collect 200 creds.

 

Once your purity has been re-validated you will be permitted to rejoin the reserve units pending battle status clearance.

[Darkangeldentist]

Thank you for the warm welcome, it is nice to be back. (Cell 42 review pending of course.) 

Although I didn't mention it in the first post I was really pleased with Azrael, both from a fluff perspective (for the most part I like how they moved his background on) and table presence. In the game against the Custodes he was instrumental for accuracy and survivability of the army. It's also great to finally see the sword of secrets be the most potent of the heavenfall blades. I like what they did to all of them but being able to deal out mortal wounds is a big deal and tipped the balance in that Custodes game. It may have taken 2 rounds of combat to do it but Azrael managed to bring down Trajann Valoris with the mortal wounds being a crucial factor. (Getting past 3+ invulnerable saves can be a huge pain.) Our chapter master proved himself very admirably that day.

 

The new command points system is a constant source of admiration and inspiration for helping change the flow of the game. From being able to re-roll a key save or charge to shooting outside of the shooting phase (whether it's from Deathwing assault or Auspex scan) command point usage is making for some very interesting tactical choices within the game that go far beyond what I had been familiar with. I will come back and look at command point usage more in the future of this thread. 

[march10k]

Welcome back!  I'm loving Azrael this edition, too.  I think he strikes the perfect balance of being a top-notch support character, a command point mechanic, and yet still as good a melee monkey as you'd expect a chapter master to be.  His rerolls are a bit too valuable to heavy weapons for me to consider taking him on the offensive, but when you park eight lascannons around him, the enemy tends to come calling, and Azzy gets to swing that sword without tiring out his legs first.

[The Shadow Guard]

Welcome back DA dentist...seems the Inner Circle is filtering back what with Borther Bish, Project 28 and now DA Dentist returning in the 8th! Good times...er... or.. the end of times are ahead! 

 

In case the newbs don't know what were talking about - check out the original B+C Unforgiven Inner Circle

 

SG

[Darkangeldentist]

Thanks for the welcome back march10k and The Shadow Guard. 

 

Had another game last night. Didn't think to take any photos but it was fun and interesting so I will include a superficial battle report. We were using the open war deck to randomly assign deployment, objectives and 'twists' to mix things up a bit. Because bother our armies were pretty even points wise we didn't use the sudden death or ruse decks. I rather like this way of determining missions and the twists can be very impactful, from bonuses to psykers to extra attacks or in this case, bonus to movement. 

 

My opponent was using a quite strongly themed Night lords list with lots of small units and a declared aim to take advantage of 'terror tactics' although he quickly found out that the Dark angels don't worry much about morale and Ld. (His legion battle trait is a cumulative -1 to Ld for each unit within 6" of the enemy up to -3.) Two rhinos each held 5 man squads of berserkers and havocs (all with plasma) a footslogging havocs squad with 4 missile launchers plus a chaos lord with the murder sword to defend them. Waiting to drop down onto the field were a pair of raptor units with meltaguns, a squad of terminators and another chaos lord in terminator armour with a combi-melta (this one was the warlord). 

 

Against this chaos force I wanted to try out a company styled list. No named characters or members from another company. So the list was built as follows;

 

Master with relic blade and combi-plasma (warlord, I rolled for my trait and got stubborn tenacity)

Librarian with force sword (smite, aversion and mind worm)

Interrogator chaplain with plasma pistol (I was using all the Dark vengeance models here because it's been so long since they hit the table)

Apothecary

Company champion (with the eye of the unseen)

Company ancient

5x Company veterans with storm bolters, 4x power swords and 1 storm shield

Rhino with 2 storm bolters

10x tactical marines with a power sword sergeant

10x tactical marines with a power sword sergeant

5x tactical marines with plasma pistol sergeant & plasmagun

5x tactical marines with plasma pistol sergeant & plasmagun

7x Assault marines with jump packs and a power sword sergeant

5x devastators with 3 missile launchers and 1 lascannon

5x devastators with 3 plasma cannons

 

The scenario we drew used the same old long table edges deployment I'm so used from previous editions but the objective drawn was kingslayer. The winner would be determined by VPs for units destroyed but if the warlord was slain then your total would be doubled! (The deck used POW levels but it translates just as well for points) So it was going to be all eyes on the warlord! The twist for the game gave all units on the table +2" of movement and +1" to advance and charge rolls! Stuff was going to really motor across the table.

 

The table we'd set up had a fair spread of ruins providing lots of area terrain, (from my perspective) the top left corner had some forests but those wouldn't be playing any part in the battle, a little further in to the middle within the chaos deployment was a hill with walls making for an obvious firebase whilst on my half the best firebase was set back in the bottom right corner made up of a solid set of ruins. There were probably about 12 decently sized pieces of scenery and some quite restricted fire lanes.

 

 

Deployment:

 

My opponent won the roll-off and started deploying things in the sky to drop down on me. So was pretty much left to deploy my first 4 units without knowing where any of his units would be. I set up the missile and lascannon devastators in the ruins at the bottom right corner of my deployment zone along with the company ancient, apothecary and a 5 man tactical squad to prevent deep strikes behind my lines. He placed his missile havocs on the hill with walls with the lord behind them to deter any thoughts of an assault squad ambush. I then started to fill up the middle of my deployment area (most of which was out of sight of the havocs) and spread to deny deep strikers any easy marks on any of my characters or the rhino which deployed with the veterans, chaplain and champion inside and near the devastators. He deployed his rhinos on the right flank opposite my devastators but my line of sight wasn't the best to them due to terrain. At the end of deployment I put down the plasma cannon devastators out in the open at the back of my deployment zone in a spot with lines of sight to both his tanks. My opponent had finished deploying long before me so chose first turn but I stole the initiative! 

 

 

First turn:

 

I started proceeds by somewhat cautiously moving my tactical marines in the centre forward and into the cover of the ruins there, my rhino also moved up using a collection of tall ruins in the centre for cover. The assault squad spread out behind the main line to keep my back line defended from enemy deep strikers. The librarian advanced near the front lines so as to get aversion on the enemy havocs. He did so and I moved on to the shooting phase. Weapons of the dark age used a command point for the plasma devastators who super-charged as well but rolled low for the number of shots. Still, it was enough to take 6 wounds off a rhino and the other devastators who could see it managed to blow it up spectacularly. (He rolled a 6 to make it explode but no other units were anywhere near it.) All the passengers somehow managed to safely disembark the wrecked transport and shrugged off the few bolter shots I could send their way. 

In retaliation the now footslogging squad moved as fast as they could toward my most forward 10 man squad as the remaining rhino moved up to hide from the missile devastators, flanking to my left came the raptors who landed to snipe out my small tactical squad preventing shots at the librarian and start to thin down the assault marines. (Side note here: my opponent plays AoS more often and there was some confusion about whether damage spills over. In AoS it does so a damage 3 or D6 weapon will always inflict that many wounds so long as there are models in the unit. This is not the case in 40K and had he known this, probably would have deployed slightly differently with them.) The raptors managed 2 kills each on their respective targets and the missile havocs unleashed a fusillade of frag rockets on the 5 man plasma squad leaving only the sergeant alive! Over towards the centre the berserkers and plasma havocs that were footslogging unleashed shots into the marines, even though they were also the only real charge targets. A couple went down meaning that the berserkers would need to roll a 10 to make the charge (even with the +1) overwatch achieved nothing and khorne smiled on his followers who made it in with ease. Combat was a lot more brutal than I expected, getting to fight twice is a big deal... The marines were wiped out before they could even swing (I chose not to spend the command points to interrupt his melee) and the berserkers consolidated into the ruins. The only thing left to do for the turn was my morale test for the surviving sergeant who passed comfortably.

 

 

Turn 2:

 

Veterans and characters got out of their rhino and let it speed off to keep my lines of sight clear as they made their way to deal with the berserkers and havocs. My fire base stayed still and my other forces moved to deal with the raptors. The librarian reached into the warp and smote 3 dead instantly before his mind worm burrowed into a member of the other squad. The combined weight of bolter fire and the master's combi-plasma managed to wipe out the remaining raptors to a man! Meanwhile the plasma cannons having warmed up spent another command point and super-charged to vaporise the remaining rhino and this time a couple of the berserkers inside failed to get out safely. Storm bolter and frag shells rained down on the other havocs who shrugged off the incoming hail of fire at the cost of only 2 of their number. (Considering they took 20 storm bolter shots and the missile devastators they did quite well.) Then the champion, chaplain and veterans charged into the berserkers. Despite my power weapons the veterans only managed to fell 2 berserkers (one bashed in the face by the storm shield) and my opponent spent the command points to ensure he would get to fight at least one round this turn. However only a single veteran fell the blades of a chain axe (the powerfist whiffed completely), then my chaplain whiffed as well (more because of saves though) before the champion stepped in and slew another 2 leaving only the berserker champion with his powerfist... who whiffed again with his clumsy weapon. At the end of the turn his morale broken the berserker fell.

Feeling that the game was slipping away the chaos commander hoped desperately that was space to drop down and shoot my warlord but there was no landing spot that would let him shoot my characters without first wiping some marines. Feeling he needed the reinforcements though the terminators came down on the left flank with hopes that the havocs would deal with the lone sergeant so they could focus fire on the librarian. However, splitting their attention to also thin down the assault marines cost them. As well as rolling poorly not a single marine fell, forcing the terminators to decide on trying to wear down the assault marines. Despite a goodly number of wounding hits though their armour stood firm and only a single assault marine fell to the storm of combi-bolter fire. Over on the right flank the havocs were getting retribution on the veterans and champion. The storm shield failed on the first save and the plasma weapons killed 3 leaving only 1 veteran to carry on the fight. (And he was now too far from the other characters to take wound for them.) The champion also took 2 wounds. The berserkers tried for another long charger, as did the terminators but both fell short leaving only my veteran to take his morale test, which he auto-passed thanks to the chaplain's presence.

 

 

Turn 3

 

Feeling a lot more in control of the battle the Dark angels backed off from the terminators and the apothecary darted forwards to meet up with the last veteran who was dragging his fallen brothers for treatment. (Alas the first patient was beyond recovery.) The Librarian was successful in casting aversion on the terminators and smite caused a mortal wound as well. Plasma, and bolter fire manage to inflict a further 2 wounds on the unit leaving it weakened but still highly dangerous. Plasma cannons focused fire into the full strength havocs and killed 3 whilst the rest of the fire base focused on the berserkers in the ruins, wiping them out. The chaplain and champion advanced up to deal with the other small havoc unit but their pistol shots went wide (must have been trying to remind about grenades) before charging in and slaying only 2 of the 3 there. 

The Chaos lord in terminator armour saw an opportunity from his viewing of the battle to lay low the librarian so commited himself to the field to snipe out the lone sergeant with plasma pistol. The surviving havocs moved into the cover of the ruins and finished off the last veteran. The terminator lord achieved his intention and the terminator squad unleashed a torrent of bolter shells into the librarian who suffered 2 wounds from the hail of fire. The missile havocs hoping they could finish him off were denied as he was not the closed target to them. A withering frag-storm instead pounded a tactical squad in cover who suffered a single casualty. The combat was brief as a lone havoc tried but failed to bludgeon the company champion with the butt of his plasmagun before he was cut down.

 

My opponent asked to concede the game at this point as neither of us were likely to slay the others warlord and he has lost far more than I. With the next turn likely to see his terminators wiped out (the plasma devastators would be in range and line of sight of them because of how far they'd moved to get eyes on the librarian) and all his reserves commited and/or perished there was little to no hope of a sudden turnaround. Victory for the dark angels. 

 

 

Summary/Overview:

 

This was for me a very interesting game. It was one of the few where I've not played any named character and the first where it's been pure Greenwing. Not fielding any Deathwing or Ravenwing models was a big change for me and not a bad experience. By not taking any named characters or expensive units I was able to cram in a fair bit of stuff and whilst I like the new Lt HQ option in this edition I was quite happy getting to field a librarian in this game. It was a very successful game for an initial outing, this is in part I suspect because of the misplays that happened to my opponent (such as the early commitment of the raptors) and being much more used to facing big tough targets with lots of wounds and high toughness. 

 

I deployed my apothecary very badly and he didn't get to much all game, which was a poor play on my part and the company ancient also never did anything because my opponent never came near my firebase. Since the mission didn't ask us to move around the table much and just being a kill each other game it's hard to say if the force lack mobility, not to mention the twist making everything faster, so I will want more games with the force. Still very much liking the champion and also re-rolls are nice I'm kind of disappointed how weakly chaplains hit in melee. My opponents keep making their saves. His -1 to enemy Ld aura, stacked with the eye of the unseen on the champion was cool though and quite impactful as it swings Ld8 down to 6 meaning any casualties risk further losses due to morale. 

 

Also quite impressed with how much I was able to cram into the list. There is just over a demi company's worth of marine bodies in there without counting the characters. With the vast majority of it being only single wound models it's an interesting counter to people overly focused on high damage weaponry and multi-wound targets. 

 

As for the open war deck. I really like it. Being able to just shuffle and deal from a deck of cards to mix up deployments and objectives just seems to work for me and the twists add a very interesting element.

[Ashen Sabre]

What'ya know, Night Lords defeated by Dark Angels, almost as if we've done if before or smth. Regardless, nicely played, though I find myself envisioning your opponent's face at realizing the effectiveness of his chapter tactic on the Sons of the Lion.

[Helycon]

Welcome back! And whilst I enjoyed the batrep, I can't get my head around a rhino with two storm bolters...!

[Darkangeldentist]

What'ya know, Night Lords defeated by Dark Angels, almost as if we've done if before or smth. Regardless, nicely played, though I find myself envisioning your opponent's face at realizing the effectiveness of his chapter tactic on the Sons of the Lion.

 

His expression was certainly not one of amusement. Although to be honest, it was weapons of the dark age on the plasma cannons that really caused him grief. 

 

 

Welcome back! And whilst I enjoyed the batrep, I can't get my head around a rhino with two storm bolters...!

 

Thanks, although I'm flummoxed why a rhino with 2 storm bolters should be difficult to get your head around. It used to be a cute way of spending points but now it can mean quite respectable firepower up close and after another game with the list showed it's still a decent little distraction.

 

I remembered to take some photos this time so will write the battle report once I've loaded those onto my computer (so you guys can at least see what kind of table I'm playing on instead of having to figure things out from my descriptions. Same list against Alaitoc Eldar (featuring no less than Jain Zarr the banshee herself) and although we had to cut the game a bit short (my fault, had to leave early) we had reached a point in the battle where the outcome was becoming clear.

[Helycon]

My point being, a Rhino is only allowed one Storm Bolter :)

[solarisqc]

My point being, a Rhino is only allowed one Storm Bolter

Rhino have 1 storm bolter but:

this model may take a hunter-killer missile.

this model may take an additional storm bolter

 

p.121 of Dark Angel codex

[Chmur]

My point being, a Rhino is only allowed one Storm Bolter

 

That's what we all think, but it's not actually correct. Spend those 2 points! :)

 

 

My point being, a Rhino is only allowed one Storm Bolter

Rhino have 1 storm bolter but:

this model may take a hunter-killer missile.

this model may take an additional storm bolter

 

p.121 of Dark Angel codex

 

 

Correct. In line with SM codex as well.

[Stormxlr]

My point being, a Rhino is only allowed one Storm Bolter :)

Since forever Rhinos could always take 2

[Helycon]

Heh. I never knew. Thanks for clearing that up! My bad :)

 

I reckon it's due to using Razorback mostly. For them it makes more sense, but a Rhino has plenty of room I suppose.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Helycon

[Darkangeldentist]

Game 2 with the Greenwing list was against Eldar, my first encounter against them this edition and I had no idea what to expect. We rolled up 'The Scouring' on the eternal war missions table and frontal assault deployment (the wedge shaped deployment zones across the long table edges) with my picking sides and starting the deployment.

My opponent was fielding Alaitoc (with their horrible -1 to hit battle trait) and a very aspect heavy list made up of the following;

Farseer: (warlord trait that grants him a re-roll a turn and relic that lets him set up at the end of a movement phase) smite, doom and guide powers

Warlock: destructor and eliven/enervate powers

Jain Zarr

10x Dire avengers

6x Dire avengers

3x jetbikes (with a cannon)

10x howling banshess

6x fire dragons

6x warp spiders

5x Dark reapers

Warwalker with star cannon and scatter laser

Wraithlord with brightlance, flamer and shuriken catapult

The table had a fair scattering of ruins (most with bases) providing lots of area terrain and opportunities for cover but only limited pieces actually blocked line of sight. The objectives were fairly evenly scattered across the table and to my good fortune the superior objective was right on my doorstep on the left flank, the inferior one was also near my deployment zone over on the right flank. We had a similar number of total units so I decided to put chaplain and champion in the rhino with the veterans again as it meant I finished deploying first so would be much more likely to go first. Seeing my opponent's force I decided on spending a command point for an extra relic, giving the Master the Lion's roar as I had just rolled huntsman for my warlord trait.

I deployed both my devastator units in places of cover at the centre of my deployment zone with good fields of fire. The rhino went behind some ruins to at least ensure cover from any incoming shots whilst the bulk of my infantry spread out cover my flanks. The assault squad was deployed quite far back behind the rhino, out of sight from any enemy fire should my opponent steal initiative. The Master, Librarian, Ancient and apothecary all deployed in the centre behind the front line of tactical marines. The eldar started their deployment with deep striking and late arrival units to see where I would go but soon saw my simple plan was to fill the field with infantry but from outside any turn 1 assaults from the howling banshees. After having deployed the larger dire avengers in cover, the dark reapers on top of a building and both fire dragons and the other dire avengers out of sight at the bottom of the building the dark reapers were deployed in he realised there wasn't a lot of safe space for him to deploy his fragile banshees so they and Jain Zarr were relegated to the back left corner of the table behind ruins and relatively safe from any shots I could possibly send their way. The wraithlord and war walker also took up positions behind ruins for cover and lastly the jet bikes deployed far back near the corner on the opposite flank to the banshees.

My opponent deployed the ranged in the tall central ruined building before trying to steal the initiative but (thankfully) failed.

Turn 1:

The rhino and assault marines moved up the centre quite aggressively using the central ruins for cover whilst the tactical marines and characters advanced cautiously forward for better cover and/or potential lines of sight later on. The Librarian focused his attention on the rangers who had dared appear before him and smote one of their number before averting their attention from his brothers. The rhino then off-loaded it's stormbolters into them and killed a further 2 before Master Cassiel put another into the ground with the Lion's roar. The plasma devastators opened up on the dark reapers but rolled low inflicting only two wounds, only one of which was fatal. The other unit was similarly lacklustre with only the lascannon firing true to inflict 3 wounds upon the wraithlord. Of the two rangers who had the survived only one had the will and determination to carry on whilst his fellow fled.

My opponent started moving up and spent command points to ensure the banshees got as far as possible and also healed the wraithlord a bit. Jet bikes zipped forward as did the smaller unit of dire avengers to take an objective near the top right corner and also gain sight to my assault marines. The Farseer appeared as if from nowhere as did the warp spiders who appeared with clear line of sight to the assault marines in a position of cover. (I considered whether to use auspex scan to let the combat squad with plasma gun and pistol shoot at them but decided against it this time.) Guide was attempted on the dark reapers but failed, however doom was cast upon the assault marines and under the barrage of shuriken and monofilament fire the whole unit was wiped out! The rest of the eldar shooting was far less impressive though. The Dark reapers only just managed to kill the 2 non-heavy weapon members of the plasma devastators and everything else missed or bounced off armour.

Turn 2:

Chiding myself for giving away first blood I focused on how to counter the now many alien threats in front of me. On the left flank the small squad and closer full tactical unit walked up, just able to get within 12" of the banshees, whilst the rhino disgorged its cargo before backing up and around the building to shoot at the dire avengers on the right flanks objective. Also on the right flank the other small tactical squad moved up to the edge of cover and within rapid fire range of the bikes and warp spiders (assault range too with any luck). In the centre the veterans, chaplain and champion all moved up to a doorway, which gave them sight to the fire dragons and brought them very close to the large dire avenger unit. The apothecary ran over to the side of the plasma devastators sergeant and revived the wounded marine. Librarian Barachiel attempted to smite and avert the eyes of the warp spiders but his efforts were shut down by the Farseer. The guns opened fire to mixed effect on the alien menace, plasma blasts failed to break the dark reapers armour and again, only the lascannon proved effective against the wraithbone construct but this time the blow was devastating nearly knocking the giant off it's feet. ( I rolled a 6.) Bolter fire hosed down the banshees leaving more than half their number dead, however a combination of heavier cover and better armour meant that only a couple of bikers and a single fire dragon fell to the massed fire levelled at them with the plasma gunner suffering a worse fate his gun over-heated and killed him. Seeing an opportunity for combat the rhino covered the charge of the combat squad who had lost their plasma gunner into the warp spiders whilst the champion led the way for himself, the chaplain and the veterans to combat against the dire avengers. (A solid wall prevented line of sight but an open doorway allowed the charge so there was no over-watch.) The warp spider proved both resilient and tenacious as not a single one fell to the blows from the marines as the exarch's power blades carved into the bodies of 2 marines. Things went better for the big brawl in the centre. The champion slew 2 aliens, as did the chaplain and the veterans were able to engage and swing on the farseer as well as the dire avengers. Rune armour warded off their swords but another two dire avengers fell the Dark angels wrath. The consolidation even engaged the fire dragons. In return all the eldar could achieve was the death of a single veteran.

At the end of the turn all the marines held firm in spite of casualties but this was not the case for the eldar, spending 2 command points to prevent the banshees from potentially fleeing outright the Eldar consigned the dire avengers to their doom. (Combined with the effects from both interrogator chaplain and eye of the unseen the eldar had no hope of passing the test, merely how many would flee.) The whole unit fled.

With a number of their unit embroiled in combat the Eldar set about clearing their lines, everything currently engaged fell back. The warp spiders used their teleportation ability so that they could still shoot but Eldar firepower would be significantly reduced this turn. Despite all his knowledge and familiarity with the warp, combat had badly shaken the farseer. Even with re-rolls he only just barely manage to doom the veterans who died to the combined attentions of the remaining dire avengers and the dark reapers. The now limping wraithlord approached the tactical marines and unleashed fire and shuriken on them to little effect whilst the banshees and Jain Zarr advanced on the combat squad on the left flank. After the last of the veterans fell the war walker was free to shoot at the company champion letting the star cannon prove it's worth as it brought the noble marine down. Over on the right flank the warp spider continued their harassment of the marines leaving only the sergeant alive. Combats were initiated and the wraithlord charged in, shrugging off bolter fire as if it were rain to engage and tie up the marines in front of it. The banshees also charged with the assistance of their mentor Jain Zarr but even though they held the edge in every respect and not a single blow thrown at them could find it's mark neither could they break the marine's armour.

Turn 3:

Master Cassiel moved to rescue the marines from the clutches of the wraithlord managing to snipe out the last eldar ranger as he did so. Barachiel cast aversion on the warp spiders but failed to smite them and moved up to aid the lone sergeant fighting against them. The marines fighting the banshees fell back from the combat to push ahead and grab the objective nearby, leaving the alien melee experts stood infront of the dark angel bolters and plasma cannons. The tactical squad gunned down the banshees allowing the plasma cannon (with weapons of the Dark age) to obliterate Jain Zarr. The Chaplain continued his pursuit of the farseer, although he distracted himself momentarily to toss a krak grenade at the warlock which killed him. The combats saw the wraithlord go down and the chaplain wound the farseer for no loss.

In retaliation the Farseer fled from combat again but the threat to his life was obviously affecting his concentration as he failed to cast any powers. The warp spiders moved up to finish off the marine sergeant but even with the aide of dire avengers and the last jetbike they could not bring him down. (I had to spend a command point to re-roll a save but it felt worth it.) The war walker was overwhelmed with targets and unable to focus failed to hit anything. The Dark reapers, unable to see the Chaplain below them resumed their barrage of the plasma devastators but cover and lack of support from their farseer meant that only the a single plasma cannon and the sergeant (again) went down. Hoping to save their farseer the fire dragons chased after the chaplain and opened up on him with their meltaguns. Rosarius in hand the chaplain stood firm, a glancing blow had reduced part of his armour to slag and he could feel the melted ceramite scalding his flesh but he would carry on his pursuit of the foul eldar psyker! The only combat was the warp spider charging the librarian and sergeant who finally fell. Barachiel's wrath saw 2 warp spiders slain for this affront but it was not enough to worry the Eldar morale.

At this point I need to leave so we called the game there. As it stood both of us had control of a two objectives (me the superior and a regular one, him the inferior and a regular one) and although he had first blood I had linebreaker (that chaplain had gone far in his hunt for the farseer) so I was just ahead on points. Had we continued I was in easy reach of getting two more objectives and 'defenders of humanity' would ensure that my opponent would struggle to effectively prevent my control of them. He had also lost more significant casualties and there was a decent chance the chaplain would succeed in killing the farseer next turn. The Librarian was also looking quite likely to kill the war spiders (particularly if I got a good smite off) and with the rhino it was going to be difficult to kill him in return.

Overview:

Although we ended the game early the game had been fun and quite eye opening for how much the game length can vary depending on distractions and tactical decisions. The first game against the night lords had been quite quick, we got far enough in to the game for there to be a clear winner after only about an hour and a half. This game saw the same number of turns but took over 3 hours. Since both of us had psykers and needed to check up things for the Eldar the game did flow rather more slowly. Definitely goes to show how much familiarity can affect game length.

Still very happy with the list overall. I need to think up a name for the Interrogator chaplain and this report finally got me to name the Master and Librarian but not sure yet... Quite enjoying rolling for the warlord trait as it's gotten me to try out the others instead of just going with Brilliant strategist. (I think it's easily the best/most rewarding to take.) Neither game has actually gotten use out of the trait but it has affected how I use Master Cassiel, spending the extra command point to give him the Lion's roar did proved useful as getting 2 shots out to 18" away does up his ranged presence nicely. (3 shots if I fire the bolter part as well.)

[Gillyfish]

Welcome back DAD. I have also been toying with trying out htis edition of the game and dusting off my models. Sounds like your games have all gone well so far.

 

Are there any tips to deployment or strategies would recommend to an old-timer but newcomer like me?

[Darkangeldentist]

Welcome back DAD. I have also been toying with trying out htis edition of the game and dusting off my models. Sounds like your games have all gone well so far.

 

Are there any tips to deployment or strategies would recommend to an old-timer but newcomer like me?

 

Hello Gillyfish, you are right, so far many of my games have gone well. I had one terrible drubbing against Death guard the last time I tried fielding an all terminator list but by and large my games have been great fun and enjoyable.

 

I will think on the subject of deployment, it's become quite the tactical game in my mind as the interaction between alternating deployments with 'off table' counting as deploying a unit brings a new element to the game. As does the advantage to finishing your deployment first. It's significantly raised the value of transports in my eyes. When deploying a transport my reading/understanding of the rules are that you declare all the units that are embarked on it when you set it up. (Ref: Page 183 of the main rulebook, third paragraph of the section on transports.) This means that you can adjust how many deployments your forces makes depending on how many units start embarked inside the transport. (In my games the rhino has started both games with the veterans, champion and chaplain onboard. Essentially turning 4 deployments into 1.)  

 

As for more general tips and strategies... I'll get back to you. (I'm still very much finding my feet with the new rules and psykers in particular threaten all kinds of nasty surprises.) Most basic one is still know your list. Not just the rules but also how each part can interact with every other part of the list and what tasks each element can and cannot be expected to achieve. Oh, one other thing... remember that you simply move out of combat during your turn now. Currently this is the biggest change to the game for me and it really livens things up and makes for very interesting unit interactions. (We just so happen to have a nice stratagem that can allow a unit that fell back to still shoot as well.) 

[Darkangeldentist]

I feel a bit guilty about leaving this thread alone for so long but although I've played a few games my mind hasn't been up to writing anything up about them and whilst I've been trying to get more paint on models I haven't finished anything that I felt deserved being chronicled. I'm part way through converting and painting my company veterans (with storm bolters, power swords and a storm shield), my deathwing knights are in a similar state of started but far from finished and I've not gotten more than an undercoat on my darkshroud/vengeance. All of which has left me feeling very sheepish about posting.

 

However I've been playing enough games to feel like I've got something to say again in regards to how I have found Dark angels are to play. The most recent game was 2000pts against the new Tau codex and whilst my opponent had control more objectives when we had to call it on turn 4 (had to pack up and leave) he had very few models left and my next turn was likely to swing things back permanently in my favour. Other games have been against Chaos space marines where my opponent's love of cultists has seen hordes of expendable fanatics in tides unending. (A stratagem can allow the player to remove a unit and return it to play as if deep striking and returns it to full strength.) One of these games was 2000pts and like my Tau game took way too long to finish. The other was only 1000pts and I tried a pure Deathwing list just to see how it felt to field. It lost but primarily because I just couldn't contest enough objectives (scouring was not a great mission for my list).

 

 

 

So what have I learnt about my army? Well I've fallen into some pretty restrictive self-imposed limitations. I like the feel and concept behind a greenwing/mixed wing list. A core of tactical marines still appeals a lot to me. This means I'm loath to go down the efficient and effective but aesthetically unappealing min-troop list design that lets you maximise command points whilst still fielding all the toys you want to be able to do work on the table. This is on me and I'm struggling to get past it. In a similar vein, when I have decided to field a vanguard or outrider detachment so I can field a pure Deathwing or Ravenwing the shortage of command points has hurt a lot considering how hungry those lists can be. 

 

The 1000pts of Deathwing I fielded was fun to put on the table but the game was only as close as it was because my opponent was fielding a mostly assault orientated chaos list.

 

Belial

Librarian in terminator armour (warlord, master of manoeuvre)

5x Deathwing terminators with assault cannon

5x Deathwing knights

Venerable dreadnought with DCCW, assault cannon and heavy flamer

Deathwing apothecary

 

With only 14 models the list is so compact and has such a small footprint it's very hard to use, particularly because it's also very slow. In my game I decided to footslog the knights so that I could deep-strike the regular deathwing so I could make use of the Deathwing assault stratagem. This was sort-of worth it as bringing down terminators and getting two rounds of shooting from them in a single turn can mulch chaff squads such as cultists. Particularly if Belial comes down as well for the re-rolls. My opponent's chaos force had only a couple of key damage dealers in the form of a daemon prince and defiler, a full unit of Khorne berserkers and nearly half a dozen spawn were other combat damage dealers.

 

I still enjoyed the game, although I've found it tough to accept how reservedly people move models into combat now. Khorne berserkers and spawn no crowding in so as to avoid heroic interventions makes sense from a technical point of view but it kind of kills the immersion. 

 

 

 

The 2000pt Tau game was the first I've played with a land raider. The big tank was probably not the best choice against an army famed for it's tank busting ranged weapons but it and the Dark shroud did an admirable job soaking fire for the best part of 3 turns. (Pretty much everything in the Tau army tried to bring them down.) The star of that game was Ezekiel though, Mind wipe is such a powerful ability against big tough models with lots of wounds but mediocre base stats. He had 3 giant stealth suits with drones and most of them spent the game with at least a -1 to-hit penalty (from that and/or aversion). 

 

The Tau game in particular has made me realise that I'm much less keen on certain types of models now. I doubt I will take the Land raider again (at least until I find my techmarine) because it's such a points sink with quite target dependent output. Those lascannons need a big multi-wound target to feel worthwhile. (Although I did end up using them to snipe stealth suits in the Tau game and have no regrets there.) 

 

I'm still a fan of fielding a decent number of regular marines. Basic bolter guys contribute a decent number of shots and a fair number of bodies, which has proven very worthwhile for table presence. I surprises me how quickly the cost rises once you start buying special and heavy weapons though, which is why I've avoided it for the full strength squads. Devastators have also usually worked quite well for me, the range often lessens the weight of fire directed at them and a company ancient with apothecary has provided enough deterrent that I've only had a squad wiped out in 1 game out of 8. Maybe I've just been fortunate though. Bringing a good number of single wound marine bodies just appeals to me at this point where there are so many guns in the game that do multiple damage. Units like terminators and bikes are nice with their multiple wounds but so many weapons deal multiple wound per hit that you need to be pretty careful about what you stand them in front of. Characters are a different matter since they mostly can't be shot and you can to some degree affect how they get into combat. I still never regret taking a company champion and worry that he's going to get errata'd.

 

 

Ezekiel:

 

He deserves his own section after the Tau game because I've been fielding a regular librarian for a while and enjoying him for the most part. The point cost difference is not small (96 for a regular librarian compared to 135 for Ezekiel) although put a librarian in terminator armour or on a bike (index version) and the costs become much more similar. I brought Ezekiel in part because I have finally decided to put away my interrogator chaplain. The chaplain is nice but too expensive just never seems to work out the way I want. So instead I thought of upgrading the basic librarian to Ezekiel and with the now freed HQ slot get a Lt in there for re-rolling 1's to wound. The logic behind this isn't very clear at first but Ezekiel (like other librarians) can emulate the chaplain's aura with righteous repugnance giving that unit re-rolls to wound as well and he also gives nearby models a last swing if they die in the fight phase. I had forgotten though, how much better his stats were compared to other librarians and it paid off handsomely during the game. The extra, wound, chances to hit, better save and a 4+ invulnerable save all came into play during the game and my opponent really struggle to deal with him. Not to mention mind wiping 2 of his more important models and having aversion out all game too.

 

Ezekiel is a bargain for what he brings and quite it's hard to find a reason not to take him if you were going to bring a librarian. (A nearly 40pt cost difference over the cheapest loadout is something but you really have to need those points.) Much as I normally hesitate about fielding named characters (a throwback to when they were prohibited from most lists) Ezekiel is a lot of fun to put on the table and isn't overtly table dominating. 

 

 

 

 

[march10k]

I had a good game against tau with a librarian, too.  Way too much fun to gut the statline of the supremacy suit with my bike librarian.  But, on balance, I feel that, as powerful as mind wipe and aversion are, the opportunity cost of fielding a bike libby (I can't imagine not having the mobility) and the supporting ravenwing squad is too steep.  I don't run libbies or chappies any more.  

 

I have been violating a few of your self-imposed rules.  My troops consist of 3x5 scouts (not *quite* the minimum, and being able to deploy in the neutral zone during the deployment sequence is so good, I can't bring myself to field tactical squads!).  And I run *gasp* both Azrael and Belial.  With 8th edition pretty much doing away with twinlinking, getting it back via leader ability is worth any price!  Sadly, though, I find that the new, cheap, elite characters, like ancients and lieutenants, outshine classic librarians and chaplains, and they cost less, to boot!  

Edited March 27, 2018 by march10k

[Darkangeldentist]

Thanks for the reply march10k, you have a point that many of our new characters such as ancients, champions and the lieutenants are both very useful and relatively cheap. I wouldn't say they outshine librarians per-say but the cost of the cheaper ones definitely gives them an edge. 

 

I wouldn't expect anyone else to impose such restrictions on themselves. It's an observation about my own habits for list building and play. I think that there are probably better ways to maximise my list efficiency and designs but I'm loath to buy much these days. I'll need to really love a model to buy it these days so I'm making do with what I own and kit-bashing where I can. (I thought that you now needed 3 troops minimum for a battalion detachment?) I do quite like scouts and have a bunch of the metal ones that I ought to put on the table but I've been satisfied with how basic marines have done. Azrael and Belial are amazing characters and I cannot say anything against fielding them, their benefits are just amazing, particularly Azrael. 

 

Coming back to librarians though, the benefits provided by psychic powers are good, not the best perhaps but solid enough to be impactful in most games and although it can eat up command points, casting them is fairly reliable. I also find the opportunity to stop an enemy power very worthwhile. I tend to forget the +1 to deny the witch attempts due to the psychic hood. Even if it's not very reliable the opportunity is welcome. The only bad thing about them is slightly less than amazing combat stats and no invulnerable save, which is in part why Ezekiel is so very awesome by comparison. (A second deny the witch attempt each turn helps too.) Since you can advance and cast powers I've not really found their mobility to be lacking but that's a personal perspective and I know from past experience that it's easy to misjudge the value of things when you've gotten use to a particular benchmark. 

[Ishagu]

I would definitely look to add a Lieutenant to your army. A combination of one with Azrael enhances your shooting even further.

Also, I'd look to add some Hellblasters to your army :-D

 

Welcome back to the game, by the way.

[Darkangeldentist]

I would definitely look to add a Lieutenant to your army. A combination of one with Azrael enhances your shooting even further.

Also, I'd look to add some Hellblasters to your army :-D

Welcome back to the game, by the way.

Since I can use just about any suitably imposing marine for lieutenants I have been fielding those, I agree they are brilliant. Not in a hurry to get any primaris but I concede that they are excellent additions to the chapter from a competitive point of view. Hellblasters and Inceptors both offer great firepower.

 

Thank you for the kind welcome and advice.