Triszin Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Does it ever get in to why Russ doesn't like the spear? It looks funny? Makes him uncomfortable? Bad history with it? Doesn't match his color scheme? I beleive when he first got it, he saw himself surrounded by fire holding hte spear screaming in agony or something akin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I wonder if the Spear has some Emperor mojo stuck in it, which is why they go through the trouble of making sure Russ brings it with him. I can't help but think of that scene in Dogma where Azreal lets Silent Bob hit him with the golf club because 'I'm a freakin demon, you want to assault me with a putter?' Then it KO's him because it turns out to be an instrument of God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Does it ever get in to why Russ doesn't like the spear? It looks funny? Makes him uncomfortable? Bad history with it? Doesn't match his color scheme? I don't really like giving too much away in spoilers, and there's always a large part of me that likes being flippant and sarcastic, so I'll add the following: When he first got the spear, he fell asleep and had a nightmare... He was in a field of scorched ash, which on closer inspection covered astartes power armour with VIth Legion iconography. He is holding the spear. He hears a howl louder than anything he's ever heard, and see Morkai who then proceeds to attack him. Russ can't defeat Morkai, but before Morkai can get the killing blow Russ is woken up by the intrusion of Horus. Horus sees the spear placed against the wall behind Russ and says "That is a good spear" From that point Russ consider the spear to be an ill wyrd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1. @ people who can provide spoilers: what are the interactions like among the Primarchs on Terra? A. Who is included: Dorn, Khan, Sanguinius, Russ...Vulkan? B. I am especially curious how Russ and Sanguinius interact. There is a startling lack of either one ever referencing the other (no “fey mutant” etc... comments in any BL works as far as I’m aware). Especially considering that the two of them are arguably the best* melee fighters of all the brothers (both are top 5 at least). You’d think there’d be at least one comment or another C. Do they come up with assigned roles for the Party at the Palace (Dorn brings the booze, Sang the girls, Khan the music) or are their conversations much more generic D. Any sense of the timeline involved? Is Horus about to hit Sol any. Moment. Now. Or is it like tomorrow is only a day away. I always pictured the BA arriving literally hours before Horus, but not sure where that mental imagery comes from. 2. Russ “stealing” Sanguinius’s glory: I see this both ways. On one hand GW could have Russ do to Sanguinius what Wulfen are to Death Company (grumble grumble grumble). That would be an issue. On the other hand, there are plenty of ways to make it all work: -if Russ uses a spear specifically designed to kill a Primarch, while Sanguinius uses the same ol’ sword he always does...a gutting vs a chink in armor makes both look bad- :cuss -in Ruinstorm Sanguinius talks about how symbols are literally weapons when fighting chaos. Perhaps Russ causes and actual wound, while Sanguinius’s chink is a symbolic wound that the Emperor is able to exploit to (a pyrrhic) victory? -maybe since the spear did not kill him, Horus only became stronger (that which does not kill you...) as a result? None of this is to knock on Russ or the wolves in any way, but it is potentially disconcerting if the one thing Sanguinius is known for gets so drastically lessened. As for the cameo appearance of a certain tech priest... In the words of a certain canine figure from a different series... :cuss Cawl :cuss the Primaris And :cuss Guilliman * Hidden Content not scientific analysis but going off of reputation + historical lore + FW stats (Russ’s plus recent comments by FW writer that Sang will be “too melee character”) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceofAllTradez Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Is it revealed why exactly Russ must wound Horus with the spear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 In the words of a certain canine figure from a different series... :cuss Cawl :cuss the Primaris And :cuss Guilliman Wait... Who said that in what novel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedwaKe Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 In the words of a certain canine figure from a different series... :cuss Cawl :cuss the Primaris And :cuss Guilliman Wait... Who said that in what novel?Whoever it was the guy was speaking a lot of sense ! How is the fight between Horus and Russ ? Is it well written ? Russ couldnt win this one but does he atleast hold is own ? I can't wait to read this book :O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allart01 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 In the words of a certain canine figure from a different series... Cawl the Primaris And Guilliman Wait... Who said that in what novel?Whoever it was the guy was speaking a lot of sense ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kijamon Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Finished it, I don't want to do a giant spoiler ridden review because 1. I can't write a good summary and 2. It's months away and I really liked it so it's worth taking it in yourself. If you like Space Wolves and the Heresy decisions at large then you'll like the book. I have always enjoyed the bantery Space Wolves, the battle noises going on and two guys in grey are ripping the piss out of each other. Or as one character dies they say "till next winter". All of that really ticks a big box that 9 year old me got in to the hobby for and picked the Space Wolves as his army. They care, they are loyal. They do what needs to be done and they give a :cuss. If you were to go out partying for a night on the town with a member of any legion, it's got to be the Space Wolves you'd go with. Some people hate that, see them as being special snowflakes and that's fine, they aren't for you. But I think you are missing out on something that the other legions just don't get to have. The Wolves were different from the start, that's their boost and that's their curse. It sets them out from the rest and not only does that happen in the lore but it happens in the fanbase. I'm a big fanboy and I'm not sorry for it. Spear The spear contains essence or something of the Emperor, its psychic presence bothers Russ and he doesn't like fighting with spears anyway. Russ does not need to win, merely to land a telling blow on Horus. He does so during a typical feint which brings back the "Don't underestimate him Horus" from early in the book. Horus drops from daemon mode and speaks honestly but doesn't change his opinion on matters, Russ realises he is lost and even though during the retreat he says "I could have killed Horus" he doesn't regret not doing it and just seems happy to have wounded him. The damage is done, Horus is damaged by the end of the book and has visions of "normal" mode where he isn't corrupted. The word 'weak' stands out. He's not invincible any more. Mission accomplished. If that means Sanguinius has another role, I would like that. I always found the non Battle of Terra legions to be missing out on something bigger. This was the Space Wolves chance to join the very long road to Terra and actually have done something in the process. Escape Horus and Russ take the main moments of the battle here but once Russ gets his beating after wounding Horus, Space Wolves throw their lives away to save him - jumping on top of him, grabbing arms, etc. The Space Wolves are painted to take the absolute beating that you'd expect them to but they do land a lot of damage and are smart enough to keep their route clear for the retreat - though none expect to do so It's a fitting way to write them out of the Heresy as a large fighting force and I hope all legions who are not present on Terra get that treatment. Hypocrisy My favourite bit of the book is how it tries to address the hypocrisy that people like to cry about. To do so I feel that you need to separate things to shamans and warlocks. Shaman know when to stop, warlocks want all power at all costs. The White Scars and Space Wolves are shaman, the Thousand Sons and Word Bearers are warlocks. If you can accept that then you can see why these legions don't see themselves as hypocrites but you can also see why others accuse them of being so in both fluff and fanbase terms. Some of this book talks about knowing your limits, not becoming what you hate but Russ almost suggests to use the warp against Horus - the reason he was sent to kill the Thousand Sons was because he was scared of the Loyalists having access to that power. It makes sense. Overall I really liked this book and I look forward to seeing other people share their opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Russ had post-Molech Horus at his mercy and chose not to kill him... This sounds rather daft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChildofFang Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Russ had post-Molech Horus at his mercy and chose not to kill him... This sounds rather daft Lots of things do till you get the full context. Also you have the knowledge that helps you think about the reality of the situation :) This, much like plenty of Russ stories Is not black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kijamon Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Russ had post-Molech Horus at his mercy and chose not to kill him... This sounds rather daft A little. But you have to remember that the history of this is being written anew. So if he had just smashed his face in then it'd go against the lore. But more importantly Russ genuinely wants to save Horus. He pleads with him while Horus does the same back. Join me vs come home with me. It's fitting that even though they are on opposing forces, they are brothers at the end of the day. They get in to the big fight. Russ pokes him, Horus becomes "better", they have a brief conversation and then boom back to big bad and Russ gets his. Which incidentally made me wonder if the Emperor will not hesitate due to knowledge from the spear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 'I could have won if I wanted to' seems to be a reoccurring theme with Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Hmm, I'll need more review's/spoilers. I'm not feeling drawn in at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kijamon Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 'I could have won if I wanted to' seems to be a reoccurring theme with Russ The book is 360+ pages so it's condensing it quite a bit with any summary. The cost is what matters in this book, not the finale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Now I want to see what will be Sanguinius role. This is making little sense to me, I need the full picture before making judgment. It seems rather ridiculous that Russ can wound Horus and Sanguinius just gets Rotflstomped. Something is not right, and I expect this will be addressed during the last Vengeful spirit fight. Till then I will reserve judgement, and wait for a frater full review of this book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 @kijamon Well...I find it odd because post-Molech Horus rivals the Emperor, so it makes little sense that Russ could have him at his mercy unless Horus totally lets down his guard. Also, it does NOT fit Russ' character. Russ doesn't balk at brother-on-brother violence, is absolutely loyal to the Emp, and executes (pun intended) dirty jobs. The idea that he can't bring himself to deal the deathblow is...bizarre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDarth151 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Meh. Frankly, it sounds like the book will do a lot to piss me off. I think I will pass on it. I'm frankly tired of Black Library coming up with new twists and turns, and frankly have very little investment in the series at this point. @kijamon Well...I find it odd because post-Molech Horus rivals the Emperor, so it makes little sense that Russ could have him at his mercy unless Horus totally lets down his guard.Also, it does NOT fit Russ' character. Russ doesn't balk at brother-on-brother violence, is absolutely loyal to the Emp, and executes (pun intended) dirty jobs. The idea that he can't bring himself to deal the deathblow is...bizarre It's done because we want to have twists, but not actually meaningful ones. It's bringing stuff back into established status quo from the changes BL did in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 The end of Ruinstorm has Sanguinius say he will bring Horus back, and he can't be completely corrupted. I really hope Sanguinius doesn't get relegated to a talking role and just gets slapped down. I can't imagine it would come to that, guess we'll just have to wait a year or two to find out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagashnee Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Well this went from buy to borrow for me real fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Russ had post-Molech Horus at his mercy and chose not to kill him... This sounds rather daft A little. But you have to remember that the history of this is being written anew. So if he had just smashed his face in then it'd go against the lore. But more importantly Russ genuinely wants to save Horus. He pleads with him while Horus does the same back. Join me vs come home with me. It's fitting that even though they are on opposing forces, they are brothers at the end of the day. They get in to the big fight. Russ pokes him, Horus becomes "better", they have a brief conversation and then boom back to big bad and Russ gets his. Which incidentally made me wonder if the Emperor will not hesitate due to knowledge from the spear. Wow. Just wow. ...isn't that exactly what the whole Sanguinius vs Horus fight was in previous lore? "I still see the good in you"/"join the dark side and together we will rule the galaxy..." Bad enough that Russ is at Terra and decides to leave... Worse that he actually wounds Chaos-god level Horus... But I can't stomach that it's basically the same shtick as that final epic battle that has defined the series for so long. Now I want to see what will be Sanguinius role. This is making little sense to me, I need the full picture before making judgment. It seems rather ridiculous that Russ can wound Horus and Sanguinius just gets Rotflstomped. Something is not right, and I expect this will be addressed during the last Vengeful spirit fight. Till then I will reserve judgement, and wait for a frater full review of this book Attempting to withhold judgement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I was thinking maybe Russ had found the weakness in Horus armor, but is unable to land the blow due to being exhausted from the fight. The whole idea based on how Russ always found the weakness of a enemy. Is rescued and tells Sanguinius of this weakness allowing Sangy to crack Horus armor and Emperor to kill Horus. Though I was wrong. Interested in Sangy role is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-soul Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 That ending is... provocative to say the least. I feel like all dedicated Blood angels fans will be... displaced for these 2.. or how many years later we will see the book with Final battle. That is just so cruel. I do understand the intent of making some primarchs more important to the story. But for the price of glory from other Primarchs? It's quite clearly that Russ WOUNDED Horus. Not just cracked some armour - but actually wounds him. How making another crack in armour is a glorious sacrifice? I can't even imagine what kind of impact should Sanguinius make on Horus (obviously he won't kill him) so the price of his life would matter. I really want to say that it's a bad move, but now I have to read into it bymyself to make sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Putting my own fanboyism aside, I just don’t get the narrative aspect of this. Isnt Horus supposed to be equal to the Emperor? If a single Primarch can still Wound him... I’m scratching my head to figure out where this goes. Only thing I can think of is that it somehow sets up his fall even further (cause that was needed?) by having him go even further (further-er-er) in with the chaos gods, or nom nom-ing something or someone (Red Angel?) to make him even stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I guess they could have it that Sanguinius manages to not "open a chink in the armour", but manages to destroy Worldbreaker, or hamstrings him or something like that. Russ stabs Horus? Cool story bro, now let Sanguinius show you how you cripple the Arch-Traitor. And that's after breaking the back of a Bloodthirster across his knee, because while Ferrus Manus may have silver hands, Sanguinius is entirely made of pure METAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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