HH 50: Born Of Flame

[karden00]

But I have to buy this one. I buy all the numbered series. I’m just not keen

 

But...this...and books like this...should...not...be...numbered...

It's like buying a dvd (hah!) of all of the Game of Thrones episodes that featured uncle Benjen, when you already own the series as a whole. I am clearly assuming you already have read these Vulkan stories, or are at least familiar with their contents. 

[nagashnee]

Yawn, Kyme needs to let go. Sallies need a book like Scars or Betrayer, not another run of the mill forget it the day after if you even finish it book. 

 

Bad enough this is numbered. Its not even new stuff? Yawn.

[bluntblade]

I'm excited about anything Salamanders. Vulkan gets throw mad shade in the WH Community. I know fan favorites are Russ, Perturabo and Dorn but what else do we really need to know about those Primarchs and those Legions?

You're confusing the perception of the author with the character. I've seen so many gripes start with "I really want to like a Salamanders book".

 

Heck, Mortarion has had better characterisation in two supporting appearances in someone else's books.

[Phoebus]

Forget personal opinions about Nick Kyme’s Work for a second — as that comes down to taste, which is subjective. I’m not going to sit here and tell anyone they need to feel bad about being treated to something they enjoy.

The bottom line (for me at least) is that Kyme’s writes prolifically, which is a positive, but does so on behalf of a legion who do not enjoy the most prominent part in this series. The net result is that we’ve gotten disproportionately more stories about how Vulkan and the Salamanders have struggled to survive, escape, and return to the fray than we have about, say, how Horus has fought his way to Terra. That’s not an exaggeration: Born of Flame will be the third Salamanders-specific numbered entry since Vulkan Lives. That’s roughly one Salamanders entry for every eight other numbered entries. That might not seem too bad until you consider a few other factors:

1. At the risk of making Captain Obvious statements, there are 17 other legions fighting in the Horus Heresy. Thus, even assuming that each of the Legiones Astartes had an equal role in the Horus Heresy, it’s fair to say that the Salamanders got more than their quota. The Salamanders did not play an equal role, however, which makes their coverage even more unbalanced.

2. Between Vulkan Lives (#26) and Born of Flame (#51), just eleven numbered entries put their focus on a legion other than the Salamanders. I include Ruinstorm, even though it’s divided evenly between the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Ultramarines.

3. Seven of the other numbered entries since Vulkan Lives are collections, not original novels, and another two are Shattered Legions-related entries.

If we’re going to be perfectly honest, everyone knew Born of Flame was going to happen — given that everything will be released in every format. Those of us whose reaction ranges from “annoyed” to “frothing at the mouth” are essentially reacting to the culmination of an imbalance in coverage each legion got over the past few years. In a perfect world, the Iron Warriors, Imperial Fists, World Eaters, Death Guard, and Sons of Horus would each get 1-2 more novels to properly flesh out the Age of Darkness beyond Ultramar and what the Shattered Legions endured. That’s unlikely to ever happen, so the next best thing is to look forward to the Siege of Terra and hope that the release schedule will do justice to the various factions everyone wants to read about.

[TheRealMcCagh]

Other than Numeron, I don't think I can even name another Salamander. They're all interchangeable (in my opinion) and don't have anything really defining about them. There are parts of Vulkan's arc were it felt like I was reading an essay from middle school where you are just trying to hit a word count. Just goes on and on and I'm waiting for the plane to just land already. I do like the Narek parts of Kyme's novels, the facelift thing in Deathfire was kind of weird though.

[bluntblade]

Xa'ven sticks in the mind, even if he was essentially a foil to Henricos and a Watson to Yesugei.

[TheRealMcCagh]

Also is from a Chris Wraight book right? I couldn't remember his name, but I do remember the Salamander captain palling around with Henricos

[bluntblade]

That's Xa'ven.

[Tymell]

I also enjoyed Donak from Guy Haley's Salamanders shorts. Just three short stories, and only one of them really focused on him, but the character struck a chord with me, and I'd love to see more of him.

[karden00]

Forget personal opinions about Nick Kyme’s Work for a second — as that comes down to taste, which is subjective. I’m not going to sit here and tell anyone they need to feel bad about being treated to something they enjoy.

 

The bottom line (for me at least) is that Kyme’s writes prolifically, which is a positive, but does so on behalf of a legion who do not enjoy the most prominent part in this series. The net result is that we’ve gotten disproportionately more stories about how Vulkan and the Salamanders have struggled to survive, escape, and return to the fray than we have about, say, how Horus has fought his way to Terra. That’s not an exaggeration: Born of Flame will be the third numbered entry since Vulkan Lives. That’s roughly one Salamanders entry for every eight other numbered novels. That might not seem too bad until you consider a few other factors:

 

1. At the risk of making Captain Obvious statements, there are 17 other legions fighting in the Horus Heresy. Thus, even assuming that each of the Legiones Astartes had an equal role in the Horus Heresy, it’s fair to say that the Salamanders got more than their quota. The Salamanders did not play an equal role, however, which makes their coverage even more unbalanced.

 

2. Between #26 and #51, eleven numbered novels put their focus on a legion other than the Salamanders. I include Ruinstorm, even though it’s divided evenly between the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Ultramarines.

 

3. Seven of the other numbered entries between Vulkan Lives and Born of Flame are collections, not original novels, and another two are Shattered Legions-related novels.

 

If we’re going to be perfectly honest, everyone knew Born of Flame was going to happen — given that everything will be released in every format. Those of us whose reaction ranges from “annoyed” to “frothing at the mouth” are essentially reacting to the culmination of an imbalance in coverage each legion got over the past few years. In a perfect world, the Iron Warriors, Imperial Fists, World Eaters, Death Guard, and Sons of Horus would each get 1-2 more novels to properly flesh out the Age of Darkness beyond Ultramar and what the Shattered Legions endured. That’s unlikely to ever happen, so the next best thing is to look forward to the Siege of Terra and hope that the release schedule will do justice to the various factions everyone wants to read about.

Very well put, brother.

I guess I can just hope that it doesn’t sell well enough to recoup production costs, and that compels BL to change their publishing habits. Doubtful at this point in the series though.

Ahh whatever. If people enjoy these stories in these kinds of formats, I won’t “get off my lawn!” them.

[bluntblade]

I'm still sore about the loss of The Iron Tenth. Just imagine if one of BL's best had been given the chance to work on Meduson, Aug, Mor and Marr in a full-length novel, bringing in Keys of Hel stuff too.

 

At least, I guess, we haven't had a whole novel of Death Guard with poison this and death that on every other page.

[DukeLeto69]

They should have never made anthologies and the like part of the numbered series, but that’s neither here nor there. The fact is, we’ve been inundated with Salamander centric stories while other more interesting and involved legions (my opinion) have been relegated to supporting status. That’s annoying no matter how many times it’s explained to us that published novels have no bearing on others being released or not. I would love to have a numbered book now containing the Death Guard, Imperial Fist, and Iron Hands short stories and novellas like this one is to salamanders. Will that happen or is it good for the series? Probably not.

I agree with the sentiment people are posting re the imbalance of stories about different Legions. I suspect this is almost purely down to the stories each author pitches or works out with BL etc. Nick Kyme clearly had a lot of Salamander ideas while other authors perhaps jumped between different legions or were given a brief to deliver against.

 

Also agree that ideally BL would have had more of a plan from the off (they didn't know or expect the success or longevity of the HH series when they started) so that anthologies were not part of the numbered novel series.

 

But regarding the specific comment from Ensignjoker, Born of Flame collects the novellas and short novel that were only available as, arguably, expensive individual releases. So basically this book is the same as the Tallarn release, or Corax or Garro. They don't collect every short (already in another anthology) about a specific legion/character into a single volume.

 

For someone like me who has never bought any of the novellas (too expensive IMO) this type of release is good.

 

I guess the controversial part is that if you buy everything then this represents buying it again to ensure your numbered book collection is complete, and that IS pretty annoying (so again the fairest approach would have been for these type of books to not be numbered volumes).

[DukeLeto69]

I'm still sore about the loss of The Iron Tenth. Just imagine if one of BL's best had been given the chance to work on Meduson, Aug, Mor and Marr in a full-length novel, bringing in Keys of Hel stuff too.

At least, I guess, we haven't had a whole novel of Death Guard with poison this and death that on every other page.

I would be willing to bet there will be a "fall of the Deathguard" numbered novel before we actually start to Siege of Terra (or perhaps the fall will be part of the story that leads into the DG at the siege).

[bluntblade]

There needs to be. I was following on from Phoebus' comments about how there should've been more material dealing with the Traitors mid-Heresy.

[Tymell]

 

I'm still sore about the loss of The Iron Tenth. Just imagine if one of BL's best had been given the chance to work on Meduson, Aug, Mor and Marr in a full-length novel, bringing in Keys of Hel stuff too.

At least, I guess, we haven't had a whole novel of Death Guard with poison this and death that on every other page.

I would be willing to bet there will be a "fall of the Deathguard" numbered novel before we actually start to Siege of Terra (or perhaps the fall will be part of the story that leads into the DG at the siege).

 

 

There is going to be, they confirmed recently that it will be the penultimate book before the Siege. We don't know who will be writing it though (at least we didn't last time I checked).

[bluntblade]

I believe the smart money is on Swallow

[karden00]

I’ve never understood or shared the interest in a fall of the DG story.

[bluntblade]

Haven't you read Mortarion's parts in the WS books?

[Tymell]

I’ve never understood or shared the interest in a fall of the DG story.

 

For me it's because the Death Guard have had very little coverage in the Heresy, and their fall is a key moment in it for them. It offers a chance for a story with good characters, an examination of the legion's identity, what makes them who they are and what fuels their eventual descent.

[Marshal Loss]

Their fall is the singular, defining event in the history of the Legion and their Primarch; the tragic culmination of all that they did both before and during the Heresy which sets up their role in 40k. I cannot fathom how somebody would be unable to understand why people would be interested in this.

[bluntblade]

Plus it promises a chance to see the Death Guard wage war on a grand scale. Betrayer had the bookends of Armatura and Nuceria,the Emperor's Children got a fine showing at Kalium. It'd just be cool to see Mortarion at the height of his old strength.

[DarkChaplain]

3 pages, and there's been what feels like a grand total of two sentences on the contents. Contents we've had available for years now.

 

How about we get to discussing Promethean Sun, Scorched Earth and Sons of the Forge, talking about their merits instead of what completely unconnected other stories we'd rather have?

[bluntblade]

Sorry. Right then. Relevant stuff.

 

Promethean Sun always struck me as a puzzler in terms of how it presented Vulkan. Especially him getting all zen about the cleansing by fire of an entire biosphere, because he'd look after the ashes. Feels to me like it was a prime opportunity for Ferrus to growl sagely about the unpalatable truth of the Crusade or Mortarion to sneer at Vulkan's ideals, or at least for Vulkan to show that he does understand that truth and is prepared to do dirty work when necessary.

 

Heck, then Kyme could actually do something symbolic with the flames, Promethean Creed etc. Have the Salamanders at not-quite prayer as they prepare to scorch the world.

[m_r_parker]

The problem with keeping this discussion to the contents of the book is that we’ve already discussed the contents in other threads, when each of these stories was first released. Heck, it would have been nice if there was even a new shirt in there for us to read and debate over.

 

I’ll pick it up because it’s numbered, but also because we’ve got physical versions of ebooks, which to me has always felt better from a reading perspective. Out of the big three I enjoyed Scorched Earth the most, I probably won’t re-read Promethium Sun.

[Tymell]

For me, Artefacts is the best of the 5 stories in there. It does a good job of showing us Vulkan's sorrow at what his brother has done, and it makes a nice change from the outright rage and fury the other Primarchs tended to show in response. Not that such reactions were wrong or anything, but it's nice to have more of a mournful reaction mixed in with the righteous fury.

 

Of the three novellas, I felt Sons of the Forge was the best, though still not great. It showed a continuing improvement in Nick Kyme's writing from Vulkan Lives and Deathfire. Still not a great story IMO, but passable.

 

Promethan Sun and Scorched Earth I didn't like. Promethean Sun felt like it was just a standard Salamanders story for the sake of it, and the Dark Eldar parts in the flashbacks were absurd. Scorched Earth had a good bleak tone, and I appreciate the ending, but I felt like it threw the traitors into outright Chaos-worship too soon.