Unit of the Week: Sanguinary Guard

[toaae]

 

it's purely because of what I am trying to send sanguinary guard against. and that is big nasties like hive tyrants/ magnus etc.....

 

 

Do you find they work for that? I'd figure those would be awful targets, what with the invulnerable saves, multi-damage attacks and high AP.

[Silverson]

 

 

it's purely because of what I am trying to send sanguinary guard against. and that is big nasties like hive tyrants/ magnus etc.....

 

 

Do you find they work for that? I'd figure those would be awful targets, what with the invulnerable saves, multi-damage attacks and high AP.

 

 

They are doing reasonably well with a full squad with fists and swords, I have brought the sanguinor in every game i have played so far for the extra attack but I have found when I dont get the re-rolls on the fists that they fail quite badly, I'm probably going to be trying warlord jump pack librarian for a bit now to try and get the most out of them. I also supplement there damage with things like five man tac squads with a las cannon in each squad. pretty much the rest of my army deals with anti infantry.

[Paladin777]

I’m sorry to necro this thread a little, but I’m going to be building 4 SG soon and I had some opinions to ask from you fine ladies and gentlemen. I currently have 3 with swords, one with a power fist, and all of them have Angelus bolters. I intend on building two more with fists and two more with swords but I was looking to see what people thought about putting inferno pistols on the guard with the fists just for those extra tough nuts to crack. Or should I just stick with the Angelus bolters...?

[The Unseen]

Bolters, maybe plasma.

Never melta pistols, they can't use them the turn they deepstrike because of the range, which is pretty much what they do everygame, because of their high target priority.

[Silverson]

I saw when frontline gaming did a review on sanguinary guard the list they used had 8 sanguinary guard with swords and fists, and two inferno pistols. It’s doesnt seem like an ideal use of points two me but I can see it’s value if the sanguinary guard survive the enemies turn after you charge.

[Paladin777]

Well since they aren’t my alpha strike (that would be DC and a bunch of inceptors) I’m hoping their survival is more likely than the suicidal DC 1st turn chaff-charge!

 

Also, that guy doing the reviewing has 3 squads of assault marines and 3 squads of tac marine with just bolters so I’m a little skeptical...

Edited March 30, 2018 by Paladin777

[Charlo]

Used a couple for the first time the other day.

 

They charged a hellhound and did a few damage then got a bit shot up. Was only a unit of five, buffed by the Sanguinor but not amazing in terms of damage output.

 

The 2+ is very noticeable however, that is great.

[Indefragable]

If i ever played PL instead of points, (and I had the bits), I would totally run 10 SG w/ all Inferno. Look, I know we're Blood Angels, the whole "Descent of Angels" things is literally in our blood, but I think people get tunnel vision with that sometimes.

 

For me, Inferno pistols are amazing (now that they cost 9pts instead of 20) in Turns 2+ when lines have smashed and you have units all up in the enemy's forces. Taking out that Manticore with a few Inferno shots while on your way to cut up the enemy HQ can't ever be underestimated. Or, if you are just straight-up going Elite vs Elite, I don't know if there's a single (non-HQ or LoW) unit choice in the entire game that can put out as much damage as Sang Guard with inferno + encarmine weapon or fist. Anything with multiple wounds will die as the sheer volume of D:D3 or D:D6 attacks stacking on them will ensure that something gets through even against 3++ or such.

 

Again, for points reasons I am not actively advocating anyone to run all Inferno Pistols, but if you ever did have the elbow room, please please please do not dismiss the concept out of hand.

[Bremon]

Inferno is not very good. If I ran a unit of 10 I would maybe use 2, but I’d rather stick plasma on a couple of them. As is, I have 8 bolters and 2 plasma. They become the sole target of basically everything once they’re on the table to it isn’t really worth it to put weapons they likely won’t shoot on them.

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

I run 10 with 5 fists and 5 swords. I get there is a debate on the math but honestly those 5 fists do work for me. They almost always get the warlord kill in my games and then just into cleanup mode after that. 

 

Most of my opponents get distracted by my Death Company and focus them out so I'm free to run train with the Guard. I also have a lot of back line shooting so I don't worry about upgrading the SG guns as it sinks more points into an already expensive unit. Run them as cheap as possible in large squads and activate wrecking ball mode.

[Ornithologist]

If inferno Pistols had either lower cost or higher range I would still like them.. But 8th has nerfed them so bad ( with the 9" Deepstrike Bubble) I could cry. I have a whole Assault sqd that is just a waste of points now.

[Kallas]

If inferno Pistols had either lower cost or higher range I would still like them.. But 8th has nerfed them so bad ( with the 9" Deepstrike Bubble) I could cry. I have a whole Assault sqd that is just a waste of points now.

 

Assault Squads and Vanguard Veterans are pretty much the best places for Inferno Pistols. Assault Squads are probably going to be low on your opponent's target priority list (assuming that they don't fear melee at all costs, like say Tau Fire Warriors) so they're reasonably likely to get to use them (and you can fit three in even a five-man squad). Vanguard are similar, but are more of an actual threat to things; but with some cautious use of terrain they could realistically expect to get some use out of them.

 

I'd just advise against going overboard, put in a few of them in a few units, don't try and load up one unit with tons.

[lash144]

Has anyone had some success with placing their SG on the board T1 (together with the FnP banner) and fly up the field? Or are they to slow for this with their 12" movement?

[Spagunk]

Has anyone had some success with placing their SG on the board T1 (together with the FnP banner) and fly up the field? Or are they to slow for this with their 12" movement?

 

I can guarantee you that they become the target as soon as your enemy is able to. There is enough 2 damage weapons out there to burn passed their 2+ save and knock each one away, even with the FnP banner. It's not their speed, it's their relative fragility as infantry.

 

However I don't know if the latest FAQ fixes that with the +1 cover strat. May be worth some hard testing.

[Bonzi]

Has anyone had some success with placing their SG on the board T1 (together with the FnP banner) and fly up the field? Or are they to slow for this with their 12" movement?

I have. They do become a huge fire magnet. The 2+ and the 5+++ go a long way to keep them alive. The new strat for cover will also help. You need to play them smart and use as much cover and LoS blocking terrain as you can.

 

I ran two units of 7 screened around the Sanguinor and the Sanguinary Ancient with the Standard of Sacrifice. Several punisher cannon and battlecannons as well as that Castellan flamer killed about half of them as they crossed the board but they killed the Castellan in return and about a Leman Russ and a half in return.

 

It also had the bennefit of completley occupying my opponents firepower which let my other units move freely.

[Thoridon]

I've had a couple of games recently where I've used 10-man SG units with character support and started them on the table, both against Tyranids and using Power Level for simplicity.

 

The first game was 80 PL and I ran 10x SG with Dante and Sanguinor. At a combined 40 PL they made up 50% of my total force and got annihilated. I didn't have enough other bodies to screen them properly and a combination of shooting and psychic powers soon killed them. A 2+ save doesn't do a lot against Smite, particularly when the opponent rolls high enough to deal D6 mortal wounds. That game was a case of too many eggs in one basket and I just couldn't protect them.

 

The next game went up to 103 PL so I added a JP Librarian and made sure they were screened fully at the start. That prevented them being killed before they could do anything, and on Turn 2 the whole group was alive and moved into position to charge a lone Swarmlord who'd taken an objective within their range. The Librarian failed to get Unleased Rage off, which was a bugger, and failed his Smite attempt too. With 4 inferno pistols in the squad of 10, plus Dante's own, I hoped to strip a bunch of wounds before combat. Unfortunately most simply missed, failed to wound or got saved by the 4++ invul and a single melta shot got through for a couple of damage. When it came to the charge I was sure the Swarmlord would go down easily enough under the weight of 10 SG and 3 characters. Alas, I discovered just how strong that Swarmlord is when his 4++ becomes a 3++ against melee wounds. It saved almost everything, and though a bunch did squeeze past the invul he somehow ended up surviving with 1 wound as the psychic power giving a 5+++ let him ignore some more. That 1 wound was enough to let him instantly kill Dante in response, despite being reduced to 4 attacks and S6, as Dante failed his own invul saves and a pair of flat 3 daage wounds going through put an end to him. Surviving into the Tyranid turn then let the Swarmlord kill the Librarian before I was able to finish it off. Failing to get the kill on the charge lost me 18 PL of characters and I lacked killing power after that.

 

Clearly the first game was a double mistake, putting half my force into that small group and then not protecting them, but the second game I was expecting more from them. It was down to luck as much as anything I guess - one more roll on my end being successful just about anywhere in that combat would've killed the Swarmlord and I could've swept round with the group, but to have a combined 47 PL fail to remove 12 wounds after being in psychic range and in melta double-dice range was a tiny bit disappointing!

 

I also really wished SG had the bodyguard ability of Company Vets when Dante went down, and with how badly the Librarian failed I'd maybe swap him for an Ancient with the 5+++ next time I try a similar approach.

[Indefragable]

I think the Swarmlord’s 3++ is designed with that cinematic reason in mind: he’s one of the few named characters with that level save.

 

Dante is grossly underpowered for what he costs right now, especially compared to almost every other Chapter Master, not even getting started on the fluff...

 

I have been starting SG on the board almost every game. Deploy smart and hug cover/LoS. They will get shot and will take damage but with smart positioning, careful cohesion with the 5+++ banner, and big enough unit (never less than 6) you can survive and do damage. 4 SG still do work; don’t let the # of casualties they take early on throw you off mentally.

 

I have also more and more been running the Sanguinor as WL to make them Fearless and also to spread the buffs around; that way Capt Smash can be off on his own doing work (I haven’t really missed the +1D WLT, and I’ve come to force myself but to rely on the 5+++ re-rolling 1’s one.

[Karhedron]

I am currently building a full squad of 10 as well as an Ancient to carry the banner. I have a Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack (Index) that I am considering running with them. +1S and the ability to heal and resurrect models looks pretty good on paper. I am actually considering making a bog-standard SG my Warlord. I lose out on the Trait but I guarantee the squad will get full rerolls under all circumstances.

 

My long term plan is the SG blob, possibly led by the Sanguinor if points allow, backed up by 3 squads of Inceptors led by Captain Smash-lite and a Sanguinary Novitiate with JP (Index again). These guys can offer some serious close-range fire support while the SG take on stuff in melee. Then a smattering to Troops to hold objectives and fill a Battalion for CPs.

[Indefragable]

As another note, I've basically gone all-in on Power Fists for Sanguinary Guard. I much prefer the idea and look of swords, but I think they are a luxury at this point. PF's offer far more effectiveness against a variety of targets, including big scary stuff. The -1 To Hit is not as much of a factor, I'm finding, when you're constantly full re-rolls near WL and/or the sheer quantity of attacks makes up for the modifiers (with the Sanguinor nearby and typically 6+ bodies in the squad, that's typically at least 18 PF attacks, often at least 12 by the time they've survived shooting.

[Shaezus]

I am currently building a full squad of 10 as well as an Ancient to carry the banner. I have a Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack (Index) that I am considering running with them. +1S and the ability to heal and resurrect models looks pretty good on paper. I am actually considering making a bog-standard SG my Warlord. I lose out on the Trait but I guarantee the squad will get full rerolls under all circumstances.

 

My long term plan is the SG blob, possibly led by the Sanguinor if points allow, backed up by 3 squads of Inceptors led by Captain Smash-lite and a Sanguinary Novitiate with JP (Index again). These guys can offer some serious close-range fire support while the SG take on stuff in melee. Then a smattering to Troops to hold objectives and fill a Battalion for CPs.

I've had a SG model as my warlord for the last two games and it's worked great. With an 8 man unit their shooting has been brutal - that 1AP on the Angelus is not to be underrated - and the melee reroll has more effect with them all having fists. The benefits have outweighed any WT, besides no longer giving away KtW VP so easily, even if they don't benefit from the character rule.

 

Well worth trying it out.

[Charlo]

 

I am currently building a full squad of 10 as well as an Ancient to carry the banner. I have a Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack (Index) that I am considering running with them. +1S and the ability to heal and resurrect models looks pretty good on paper. I am actually considering making a bog-standard SG my Warlord. I lose out on the Trait but I guarantee the squad will get full rerolls under all circumstances.

 

My long term plan is the SG blob, possibly led by the Sanguinor if points allow, backed up by 3 squads of Inceptors led by Captain Smash-lite and a Sanguinary Novitiate with JP (Index again). These guys can offer some serious close-range fire support while the SG take on stuff in melee. Then a smattering to Troops to hold objectives and fill a Battalion for CPs.

I've had a SG model as my warlord for the last two games and it's worked great. With an 8 man unit their shooting has been brutal - that 1AP on the Angelus is not to be underrated - and the melee reroll has more effect with them all having fists. The benefits have outweighed any WT, besides no longer giving away KtW VP so easily, even if they don't benefit from the character rule.

 

Well worth trying it out.

 

Very clever...!

 

If you can go without the D4 Thunder Hammer or FNP on another character, then this is a nice way to buff SG.

[Kinstryfe]

So I'm working on my SG, and I'm thinking a mix of swords and fists to take on pretty much whatever they need to. I've played against them and they've usually eaten a good bit of my army. Odd question though, with SG being 2W 2A, would basing them on Primaris bodies be inappropriate?

[Silverson]

Post chapter approved I think the standard loadout of sanguinary guard is plasma pistol and power fist for me. Used them in two games this weekend and really like using them still.

Getting Synergies right is the tricky thing.

 

As a small note I think sanguinary guard may be to cheap at their base cost and may go up a few points in our next codex, but to balance it hopefully encarmine weapons will get a 50% cost reduction minimum.

[Quixus]

As a small note I think sanguinary guard may be to cheap at their base cost and may go up a few points in our next codex, but to balance it hopefully encarmine weapons will get a 50% cost reduction minimum.

They are identical to force weapons so they should be priced accordingly.

[Paladin777]

Which are in turn all much inferior to the (now) similarly priced relic blade... just pointing it out...