Unit of the Week: Sanguinary Guard

[Majkhel]

+1 to that! When fielding only 4 SG (unless in a very small game), every fallen SG reduces the units offensive output considerably. They need numbers as much as they need the 5++ save from the banner.

[Panzer]

Also the more models are in the unit the more points efficient every buffing unit becomes.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What’s the optimal size ?

[Karhedron]

What’s the optimal size ?

 

Honestly? I think they should not be run in less than 8 man units and 10 is better if you can manage it. It really is a case of "go big or go home" with SG. Small units just don't cut it. The buffs are less significant on small squads and it only takes a few casualties to render a small unit a trivial threat. SG are durable but not so tough that small squads can wade safely through a meta that is currently full of Plasma, AGCs, Disintegrators etc, even with the Standard of Sacrifice.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Karhedronuk

[Jolemai]

 

Actually did that combo in my previous game but couldn't pull it off. What I'm finding is that my SG tank a turn or two of shooting which results in their effectiveness severely diminished - although I recognise that this is a list building problem rather than a durability thing.

I guess it depends on what else is in your army. Did the SG soak enough firepower that the rest of your army was free to kill the enemy or did it just blunt their effectiveness for no good cause?

 

How many SG were you running? I plan to run a full 10-man squad so they can take a few losses and still retain their potency.

 

I share your concerns, SG are expensive. In the past I have favoured DC led by Lemartes for this very reason. For 350 points (less post-CA), I get all the killing power and buffs I need in one place. Yes the DC are a glass hammer but I can normally rely on them to take out something pretty big and vital before they die. More than once their heroic sacrifice has allowed the rest of my army to seize victory which is both cool and fluffy.

 

Having said that, I have my SG all painted up and I WILL be running them.

 

 

Too many variables really. They always get focused hard and "deliver" the characters, but whether or not that's a good thing depends on the mission, army, and my own tactics (which can vary between veteran and n00b depending on the first two points). I'm currently up to six models in my 2k list (which needs updated post CA18).

 

@Jolemai:

Deepstrike them? ^^

 

I'm really not a fan of that, but again, that may be because of the way I'm using them. I run them with a Priest, Ancient, and Librarian (and sometimes, Smash/Sanguinor) and don't really want them to be out of range of them. Dropping them in for a charge means 1) lots of CP used, 2) something (usually the SG) fails the charge and become sitting ducks. If I go for the conservative approach, I might as well as started them on the board as they will have to weather a round of shooting. (I'm also not a fan of the 9" deepstrike range and T2/3 only deepsteikes as both can be countered too easily - if I'm going to deepstrike, I want it to be a single model (such as Smash using UWoF) or a shooty unit like Terminators).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’ll give a squad of six a try.

[Ornithologist]

Don't forget a squad of 4 is PL 8 and a squad of 5 is PL 20 for purposes of Deep strike. So, you have to keep an eye on the newish deep stirke rules.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I thought dropped the beta rule using PL for the purpose of selecting how many units can deep strike now.

[Panzer]

Yeah PL aren't getting used for reserves anymore.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It was silly.

[Fatbudda]

So with the up coming points drops, what load outs are people thinking of running? Are powerfists still king?

[Master_Trajan]

I would keep the unit cost low, that 4+ to hit is also a pain. 

For me the top loadout is with swords

[Indefragable]

Fists are still king, especially since

 

A. there are more ways to get more attacks now. 2 base +1 Shock Assault +1 Savage Echoes +1 Sanguinor +1 Unleash Rage = 6A each. Quantity has a quality all its own.

 

B. Astorath is going to see way more play time with his newfound utility and Mass of Doom will help w/ fists and hammers. Yes, it’s only one turn, but it can pack a wallop.

 

C. Quake ammo opens up all sorts of combos, so pound for pound, fists are still “best”

 

...that being said, swords are a strong competent prince just waiting for their chance to sit on the throne.

 

In other words, you can’t go wrong, but I still find fists far more broadly useful. 

[Xenith]

Yes, wounding T7 vehicles on a 2+ definitely has it's merits.  Fists v swords is -1 to hit for +4 strength is hit on 3+ wound on 3+ vs hit on 4+ wound on 2+ which are statistically the same, or close enough. If you can acquire rerolls to hit from somewhere, which is easier than rerolls to wound, then fists are better, for 1pt more. 

 

Axes I think are still great, as vs MEQ they're 3+ to hit 2+ to wound, beating both in the first round, however if they're the same cost as a force axe, then I think fists outperform, especially if you can access rerolls.

 

So unsupported: I'd go with axes.

Supported: fists. 

Maybe swords to save points. 

 

What are your thoughts on plasma and inferno pistols? I think for the points theyre a steal. 35pts to potentially put 5d6 wounds on something?

[Morticon]

5/5 for me! Fists/Swords

[Neuralshock]

Swords and axes are the same price now so why not take both! Sprinkling a few plasma pistols into the mix will go a long way especially if you drop them with the warlord.

[Xenith]

Swords and axes are the same price now so why not take both! Sprinkling a few plasma pistols into the mix will go a long way especially if you drop them with the warlord.

 

That's very interesting, I thought they would be priced like force swords and axes. 

[Remtek]

I'm really tempted at running axes now, math says swords but having something that wounds t4 on 2s and t8 on 4s is really tempting! Between transhuman physiology and invul saves i think there are alot of hidden benefits of running axes now. Curios to hear other peoples thoughts!

 

(Pretty sure axes are one more point).

[Karhedron]

I tend to a Sanguinary Priest with my SG for healing so they get +1S anyway which makes the Axes less appealing. However, if you don't have a Grail nearby, there could be some value to a sprinkling of axes.

[Neuralshock]

I think axes have a better time against good invulns where the added ap from a sword is wasted. The sword has a broader variety of targets that they want to slice.

[The Unseen]

If your running them with zero support, axes. Their the best against the widest vatiety of targets without any other rules.

With just a priest without rerolls, swords, because now your basically just better axes.

 

With rerolls from a warlord sanguinary ancient, fists are king. (Hitting on 4s rerolling all, wounding on 2s rerolling ones)

 

If you've got both the ancient and the Sanguinary priest, swords are probably your best bet, unless T8 tanks are super prevelant, in which case fists again.

 

With how cheap fists are now though, I see a lot of them for me.

I run them with all fists because theyre holding a mix of swords and axes, so I can counts-as them as all fists pretty easily, because they were built when fists were overpriced garbage but MC power weapons were great

[Matarno - Lord of Skyfall]

The Angelus boltgun becomes extremely potent with BoB.  Dropping a squad of 10 down in turn two with the warlord, with Tactical Doctrine active and the new strategem for rerolling the wound rolls, you could almost guarantee that you eliminate one unit in shooting before charging another unit. SG don't seem to benefit too much more from Assault Doctrine, IMO, but their beta strike just became hyper effective.

[Drunken Angel]

At last  my 30 Sanguinary Guard are going to be more than target practise for the rest of the world. 

We can shoot really well now and make it stick.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Drunken Angel

[SnorriSnorrison]

Always support them with at least an ancient. The biggest buff was their point decrease so you can fit more of them and/or more support characters in.

 

Not sure how many squads there would be within 12” when you deepstrike for the Boltgun stratagem. The -1 to hit in close combat is excellent though, but requires death masks.

Also very strong is Death on the Wind; just very efficient when dealing with 2-wound models.

 

All in all, great changes for the Guard. They feel more like the heroes they’re supposed to be and have gained more flexibility in their load-out.

[Indefragable]

I am really hoping that some Strategems are tests for future data sheets. Sang Guard with Fly and 2+ and -1 To Hit in melee is far closer to what I’ve imagined them to be in the fluff...the handpicked super-elite of a melee chapter. 
 

Does Death on the Wind mean D:1 weapons are now D:2? Or just anything that is D:D3 counts Damage rolls of 1 as 2 instead?