Unit of the Week: Sanguinary Guard

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Can you have squads with every Marine using relic blade though ?

[Paladin777]

No, but shouldn’t that be reflected in the price of the model, not the weapon? (I know, the age old 8th Ed debate!)

[Panzer]

No, but shouldn’t that be reflected in the price of the model, not the weapon? (I know, the age old 8th Ed debate!)

 

Not really. It would only work if you'd actually take that option but if you'd take a different weapon, like a Power fist or something, then the model would be overcosted because it would still include the opportunity cost for the Relic blade.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

No, but shouldn’t that be reflected in the price of the model, not the weapon? (I know, the age old 8th Ed debate!)

It’s pointless then .

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

“The Librarian failed to get Unleased Rage off, which was a bugger, and failed his Smite attempt too. With 4 inferno pistols in the squad of 10, plus Dante's own, I hoped to strip a bunch of wounds before combat. Unfortunately most simply missed, failed to wound or got saved by the 4++ invul and a single melta shot got through for a couple of damage. When it came to the charge I was sure the Swarmlord would go down easily enough under the weight of 10 SG and 3 characters. Alas, I discovered just how strong that Swarmlord is when his 4++ becomes a 3++ against melee wounds. It saved almost everything, and though a bunch did squeeze past the invul he somehow ended up surviving with 1 wound as the psychic power giving a 5+++ let him ignore some more. That 1 wound was enough to let him instantly kill Dante in response, despite being reduced to 4 attacks and S6, as Dante failed his own invul saves and a pair of flat 3 daage wounds going through put an end to him.“

 

Dude that was just a tonne of really bad luck. I know it sucks, sorry it has to happen to you.

[Karhedron]

It has been a slow burn but after 8 months I have finally finished my Sanguinary Guard and Ancient. 8 months of slow, painstaking effort but I think the models deserve the effort.. Behold the Gold Host!

Edited January 1, 2019 by Karhedronuk

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What are good tactics to keep Sanguinary Guard safe until they can get stuck into melee ?

 

@ Karh your SG and Ancient look really awesome.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Black Orange

[Majkhel]

What are good tactics to keep Sanguinary Guard safe until they can get stuck into melee ?

 

 

- LOS-blocking (terrain, rhinos)

- target saturation 

- Standard of Sacrifice. 

[Panzer]

Also the 3d6 charge. Can't shoot a unit that's not on the board until it reaches melee. ;)

[lash144]

Also the 3d6 charge. Can't shoot a unit that's not on the board until it reaches melee. ;)

And after that use your pile in and or consolidate to take a hostage so your golden boys can't be shot at ;)

[Karhedron]

What are good tactics to keep Sanguinary Guard safe until they can get stuck into melee ?

What about a Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack (Index option)?

 

The +1S bubble is pretty handy when stacked with Red Thirst as even Glaives will be wounding MEQs on a 2+ and T8 models like Knights on a 4+. Fists will be wounding Knights on a 2+ too.

 

Then there is the whole heal/resurrect aspect. SG weigh in about 16 points per wound and the Priest is 90 points with a power sword. He is not going to make his points back just healing the SG but even if he just heals a couple of wounds, it makes his cost/benefit ratio look a lot better. Of course if he patches up any other buffing characters that is even better as Captain Smash is worth almost 26 points per wound.

[Arkaniss]

Using a Sanguinary Priest to heal Sanguinary Guard is one of those things which I love but also always have second thoughts on. On the one hand healing a Wound or bringing back a model at 1 Wound is great, but it's like trying to bail out a sinking ship with a bucket. SG attract a lot of attention so it's always a losing battle. I mean I'm keeping a killy unit going for a little bit longer so that's good? However I can't decide if it's the most efficient use of a Priest and his points investment with a jump pack :P

 

Anyway, I do think Karhedronuk brings up a good point - you're bound to be running a character (or two!) with your SG and being able to patch up D3 Wounds on them is pretty great. I myself run a Sanguinary Priest with my Guard nearly all the time. At the end of the day I guess the occasional healing/resurrection is too good to pass up.

[Quixus]

We do not have many 2+ wound "classical" units and healing is much easier than bringing models back, so I think a priest and/or a librarian (for the 5++) is a good investment. You also get two possible recipients for the Angel's wings.

[Karhedron]

Personally I am not a big fan of Shield of Sanguinius on the SG simply because it only kicks in when facing AP-4 or better weapons and there aren't that many of them about. The most common high-AP weapons that seem to turn up are Lascannons, Plasma, Thunder hamemrs and power fists, all of which have AP-3 meaning that SG will get a 5+ save against them anyway.

 

I think a Librarian is much more valuable for casting Unleash Rage to maximise the value of those expensive CC weapons and probably casting Quickening on himself to help out.

[Panzer]

I agree Shield of Sanguinius won't do much on Sv2+ models. Better use it on your transports or Deathcompany and such. However the Ancient with the 5+++ banner is just great with the Sanguinary Guard!

[Quixus]

Yeah, I still think in 5th-7th edition rules. The ancient with the "FNP banner" is an auto include.

[lash144]

Also I feel like the Sanguinor is a must have after his points drop when you have a big unit of SG. Increasing their attacks from 2 to 3 is just massive, especially when combined with something like the fight twice stratagem, taking the unit from 40 to 60 attacks.

Plus he can also buff other stuff, like Intercessors, Smash Cpts and so on.

 

While you could achieve something similar with a Libby, the problem is that it's not guaranteed like the Sanguinor buff.

[Karhedron]

While you could achieve something similar with a Libby, the problem is that it's not guaranteed like the Sanguinor buff.

Why make it an either/or choice? Take both for redundancy and you can get 4 attacks each if the power goes off or 3 if it doesn't. Having a Libby around is useful for Denying enemy powers and chucking out the odd Smite as well.

 

All these HQs get expensive, I am not going to pretend otherwise but it is awesome hammer unit and potentially very good fun to use. You are getting onto the kind of melee power that can fell a Knight before it strikes back.

[Jolemai]

Actually did that combo in my previous game but couldn't pull it off. What I'm finding is that my SG tank a turn or two of shooting which results in their effectiveness severely diminished - although I recognise that this is a list building problem rather than a durability thing.

[Karhedron]

Actually did that combo in my previous game but couldn't pull it off. What I'm finding is that my SG tank a turn or two of shooting which results in their effectiveness severely diminished - although I recognise that this is a list building problem rather than a durability thing.

I guess it depends on what else is in your army. Did the SG soak enough firepower that the rest of your army was free to kill the enemy or did it just blunt their effectiveness for no good cause?

 

How many SG were you running? I plan to run a full 10-man squad so they can take a few losses and still retain their potency.

 

I share your concerns, SG are expensive. In the past I have favoured DC led by Lemartes for this very reason. For 350 points (less post-CA), I get all the killing power and buffs I need in one place. Yes the DC are a glass hammer but I can normally rely on them to take out something pretty big and vital before they die. More than once their heroic sacrifice has allowed the rest of my army to seize victory which is both cool and fluffy.

 

Having said that, I have my SG all painted up and I WILL be running them.

[lash144]

@Karhedronuk

Sure, if you can't fit both into the list go for it. Are you running the Libby Dread or something else?

 

And yes it gets expensive, but imo BA ate best run as kind of a deathball anyway, so better make the most out of it ;)

 

@Jolemai:

Deepstrike them? ^^

[Arkaniss]

*snip*

 

How many SG were you running? I plan to run a full 10-man squad so they can take a few losses and still retain their potency.

 

*snip*

 

Having said that, I have my SG all painted up and I WILL be running them.

 

I run 10 myself, unless I'm really scrimping on points then it's 8. You simply need the bodies to weather the storm! Secondly Sanguinary Guard are indeed brilliant models and I never tire of seeing the mass of gold and white crashing into the enemy! Oh and I agree about Shield of Sanguinius on the SG, sounds like a good idea but in practice I've found it underwelming. I use Psychic powers to increase their damage output.

 

Now, as for the other comments of delivery methods, I've deployed them on the table and deep struck them in. Deep Striking eats CPs to get them their 3D6 charge so it is worth it, if you aim to have them on the table Turn 1* then you need to keep them in cover at worst but ideally hide them from view if possible. Not easy I know - failing that have something come down Turn 1 to provide a new threat to keep the heat off them.

 

At the end of the day a person only has to be on the receiving end of a Sanguinary Guard buffed by characters once to realise the potential threat so you're going to have to accept taking a few losses before you get to melee. Which as mentioned is where the Priest comes in. Anyway, there are a lot of factors as always so good luck to everyone trying to make the golden boys work in their meta

 

*I've experimented with SG on the table and DSing a character with the Angels Wing relic to prevent overwatch... and also vice versa, bringing the SG in to join a character(s) already on the table. Of the two I think I prefer bringing the SG in from reserve, as all going well I can run the character(s) up on their own to comfortably get the charge and negate overwatch and bring in the SG fresh from reserve for a 3D6 charge.

 

When it works it's amazing, but as you can imagine sometimes it's a disaster when I can't get my SG in along with my character(s) - terrain and of course my opponents movements can throw a spanner in the works. So there's a definite risk/reward element!

[Karhedron]

@Karhedronuk

Sure, if you can't fit both into the list go for it. Are you running the Libby Dread or something else?

 

And yes it gets expensive, but imo BA ate best run as kind of a deathball anyway, so better make the most out of it

Previously I tended to run DC as my hammer unit. I can't see realistically fitting both in at 1500 points although it might be viable in larger games. I plan to swap out the DC and Lemartes for the SG and supporting characters although I will also need to make some strategic cuts elsewhere in the list to fit them in.

 

I am running just a regular Libby with Jump Pack. Lacks the punch of the Libby Dread but at least I do not need to rely on "Wings of Sangiunius" just to keep up with the unit I am hoping to buff.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Currently I am planning to run 4 SG supported by a Priest and Ancient. I like the small foot print to hide out of LoS from Knights and they won't be able to target the characters.

[lash144]

Currently I am planning to run 4 SG supported by a Priest and Ancient. I like the small foot print to hide out of LoS from Knights and they won't be able to target the characters.

I don't think that's a great idea. SG really get good when you have many of them and buff the crap out of them ^^

Just deepstrike them, so they are protected.