Speculation & spoilers regarding The Magos, Pariah etc

[DukeLeto69]

Just going to note that there seems to be an epic poem about the Heresy with plot relevance that shows up which is the extent of their knowledge, referred to as the Heretikhameron.

 

 

"Nine Sons who stood and Nine who turned. Nine for the Eight and Nine against the Eight. Eighteen all to make the Great Cosmos or bring it crashing down"

Mine was a passage from The Heretikhameron, or 'Days of Heresy', a long verse poem written circa M32, which recounts the War of the Primarchs. I never read it all, and it was tortuously complex, but I remember the grand style of the opening book, with all its epic images and its declamatory tones, speaking of the 'Bright Emperor', and the Nine Sons Who Stood, and the Nine Who Turned. Sister Bismillah used to read it to me in the dormitory of the Scholam Orbus. I think the orphanage only had the first book in a little yellow volume. Anyway, my tempering litany is not just those words, it is Sister Bismillah's voice reciting them. She is, I suppose, the most maternal influence I have ever known in my life, so her soft voice was an important part of it.

- Pariah

 

So yeah, Bequin and Medea literally know what they do because they had a chance to read like Book 1 of the HH series in poem format.

That explains some “knowledge” but not all...

 

Knowing about the missing primarchs! Even in the HH series (era) that is proscribed knowledge known only to a very small number of elite people!

It’s arrived at long last! I was beginning to worry my order had been forgotten. I got the limited ed but the cover on the standard edition is beautiful compared to the limited edition. Wifey agrees. Unfortunately I know the main spoiler but can’t work it out. It’s also going to have to wait until after lambing to get read. I get the feeling it not one to be read on a coffee break at 2am.

A real shame you know the main spoiler! But you are right - this is NOT a dip in over coffee book. Enjoy!

[b1soul]

I like that there's a HH-version of Paradise Lost in the 40K universe

[GAZ_AV_NZ]

Spoiler comment also contains spoiler from Alpharius

From Bequins comments about an alpha legion astartes being present with Eisenhorn then two pages on talking to Deathrow who is Alpharius
Is this the Primarch?
She says twins talking about Alpharius and relates it to herself being cloned
I thought Dan pretty much confirmed it was Alpharius

Given he's alive and Omegon is dead I felt it was him
Alpharius always lead important ground operations himself so its no surprise he is there himself
Most importantly psykers cannot read his mind
Malcador was unable to read his, Helped teach Alpharius to screen his mind
So Eisenhorn and Ravenor simply think its a general astartes when it's actually Alpharius himself

For those who were not aware Alpharius was the first Primarch found and was trained by Malcador
After finding Omegon he switched places with Omegon and lead from the shadows
Omegon led the legion during the heresy
Dorn killed Omegon
Alpharius knew Valdor very early on and it was Alpharius who started the blood games
It's fitting for him to be here in this book

Well done Dan Edited April 4, 2021 by Brother Lunkhead
spoiler tag added

[Carach]

you can use the spoiler tag to hide text you know.

 

just pop spoiler in [] and at the end of your text pop /spoiler in []

[malika666]

Back when Dan wrote Pariah it was the Alpha Legion’s gimmick (at least in the Heresy era) that all Legionaries called themselves Alpharius. The sentence “I am Alpharius” was kinda their catchphrase.

[DukeLeto69]

Back when Dan wrote Pariah it was the Alpha Legion’s gimmick (at least in the Heresy era) that all Legionaries called themselves Alpharius. The sentence “I am Alpharius” was kinda their catchphrase.

And wasn’t it Abnett who originally coined the whole “I am Alpharius” in Legion?

[malika666]

Indeed he was! But I doubt the Alpharius from Pariah is the Primarch.

[Arendious]

Indeed he was! But I doubt the Alpharius from Pariah is the Primarch.

Indeed. That would confirm, insofar as anything in 40k is confirmed, that Alpharius is alive and active as of Penitent's place in the timeline. (Mid M40, iirc) And, that seems like a fairly big revelation to drop via a background character.

[b1soul]

PoD rather clearly informs us that Alpharius is dead...and then French followed up with a statement that Alpharius is dead. So unless Dan is retconning PoD or resurrecting a dead primarch whose head was chewed up into little bits by Dorn's giant chainsword, Deathrow is not Alpharius. I also can't imagine the Alpharius who fought in Dorn's "weight class" having any trouble with an Emperor's Children marine.

[Urauloth]

I think the big revelation of that scene is meant to be the kind of company Eisenhorn is keeping now.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Urauloth

[Arendious]

I also can't imagine the Alpharius who fought in Dorn's "weight class" having any trouble with an Emperor's Children marine.

This is an excellent point as well. Even if the Smiling One is closer to a Chaos Lord than 'just a Chaos Marine', I can't imagine a Primarch breaking much of a sweat against him.

 

Narratively, it sandbags Eisenhorn, Ravenor, and Beta.

[Carach]

I think we have enough golly gee moments to not need Alpharius to actually *be* Alpharius in this series..

[b1soul]

In the Alpharius primarch novella

 

an Alpharius who has yet to reach full physical maturity (and who isn't wearing power armour) goes toe-to-toe against a fully equipped Valdor, a bit briefly though

 

...and before that, he utterly obliterates a fully equipped Custodes (he starts this fight with nothing but a throwing knife).

 

I think Alpharius would very handily best Teke, even only equipped as Deathrow. This should be a non-Chaos buffed Astartes who struggled against a Chaos-buffed champion.

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by b1soul

[Bobss]

So what's the logic behind the Ravenor trilogy not being reprinted into three lovely individual books with gorgeous new cover art like the Eisenhorn trilogy was?

[DukeLeto69]

So what's the logic behind the Ravenor trilogy not being reprinted into three lovely individual books with gorgeous new cover art like the Eisenhorn trilogy was?

Er you said “logic” when referring to GW/BL

[Bobss]

 

So what's the logic behind the Ravenor trilogy not being reprinted into three lovely individual books with gorgeous new cover art like the Eisenhorn trilogy was?

Er you said “logic” when referring to GW/BL

 

 

My mistake! 

[cheywood]

Got my copy of The Vincula Insurgency earlier today. Not sure when exactly I’ll read it, but in the foreword Abnett confirms it’s the first in a series of Ghost Dossiers telling the ‘shadow history of the regiment’. He sounds quite excited about how it all connects together, but Abnett’s usually a good hype-man.

 

Edit: put this in the wrong thread! Kelborn, could you delete it when you have a chance please?

Edited June 24, 2021 by cheywood

[DukeLeto69]

Trawling the various discussions forums there were some really interesting theories posted so I am going to paraphrase some of these below and then add three more of my own.

 

Now we have The Magos we know for certain(?) that Eisenhorn is not the Yellow King. We also know for certain(?) that Orpheus and The Yellow King are one in the same.

 

We also know that the Cognitae are creating Graels as vessels who can speak Enuncia. That they want to use these to kill The God Emperor. We also know that they only managed to create eight (the Grael Magent).

 

We know that the Cognitae could have requested help from the "traitor hosts" which I read as the Traitor Legions (but no indication of which ones).

 

Theories I have read across different sites include...

 

1. The Yellow King is Alpharius (or Omegon) due to the similar sounding or corrupted "Orpheus" v "Alpharius"

2. The Yellow King is Ahriman as there are references to the City of Dust, a planet in the Eye (planet of sorcerers) and not being able to go there or the Black Library.

3. The Yellow King is actually The Crimson King Magnus...same references to Ahriman but why change to Yellow?

4. The Yellow King is Lorgar! He wore gold armour and had a golden (yellow) complexion and the Word Bearers are involved!

5. The Yellow King is Lord Inquisitor Rorken!

 

These are all really interesting theories and I don't discount any of them. However, I will add a few theories of my own regarding the identity of the Yellow King:

 

1. One of the perpetuals (John Grammaticus is a Psyker and had dealings with the Alpha Legion and Word Bearers before/during HH although it also seems that JG is now a mortal in the HH timeline as of end of Unremembered Empire). In Perihelion Eisenhorn detects his power but says it is young! Is that because he is a perpetual who has recently regenerated/been reborn? Abnett seems to be creating a wider linked mythos so I am sure he will provide more linkages between HH and W40k stories he does (already has with Enuncia and "I am Alpharius" for example).

 

2. Could the Yellow King be Ravenor? In The Magos Eisenhorn asks "could yellow mean flames? A figure burning head to foot. A symbolic name for someone who has burned through and been transmuted". Ravenor was burned and physically destroyed at the Triumph of Thracian! (And in the GG books Brostin calls fire Mr Yellow).

 

3. This one is more "out there" - Who is the biggest baddest dude in 40k who is famous for wearing yellow...or is that gold? A Gold wearing powerful psyker who is manipulating and controlling and has revisited Sancour over the millennia in the form of Orpheus (perhaps)? Isn't a "King" a ruler in the same way as an "Emperor"... Could the Yellow King be the God Emperor? Could it be just one of His manifestations (in the same way I think the Solar Priest was in Talon of Horus) and therefore not the full blown concentrated power of Him? Would that explain the reference to a young power by Eisenhorn in Perihelion? Perhaps He felt "young" because he was distant and it was just one aspect of the God Emperor's multi-faceted conscience? Also in The Magos when asked about who the Yellow King is Ravenor says to Eisenhorn "He's been there all the time, since the earliest days of everything"

Fraters please excuse the threadromancing but brother Byrd gave a like to this post that caused me to read it again and...hmmmm

 

Remember this thread is deliberately spoiler territory so if you teleported in STOP READING NOW

 

Still here?

 

Ok

So after reading Penitent it now appears that The Yellow King is Constantin Valdor. That’s cool. Very cool and makes sense. It would mean that Valdor has visited Sancour multiple times over the ten millennia in the form of Orpheus. Ok but hang on a minute...

 

In Perihelion it seems pretty clear that TYK is a psyker. Powerful but “young”. Was/is Valdor a psyker?

 

Is Abnett doing a bait and switch?

 

Am I still clinging to my head cannon too strongly (and the wish that TYK is actually The God Emperor)?

 

Probably but it has piqued my interest again so a re-read of Perihelion->Pariah->The Magos->Penitent is due very soon!

Edited April 27, 2022 by Kelborn

[Moonreaper666]

 

Trawling the various discussions forums there were some really interesting theories posted so I am going to paraphrase some of these below and then add three more of my own.

 

Now we have The Magos we know for certain(?) that Eisenhorn is not the Yellow King. We also know for certain(?) that Orpheus and The Yellow King are one in the same.

 

We also know that the Cognitae are creating Graels as vessels who can speak Enuncia. That they want to use these to kill The God Emperor. We also know that they only managed to create eight (the Grael Magent).

 

We know that the Cognitae could have requested help from the "traitor hosts" which I read as the Traitor Legions (but no indication of which ones).

 

Theories I have read across different sites include...

 

1. The Yellow King is Alpharius (or Omegon) due to the similar sounding or corrupted "Orpheus" v "Alpharius"

2. The Yellow King is Ahriman as there are references to the City of Dust, a planet in the Eye (planet of sorcerers) and not being able to go there or the Black Library.

3. The Yellow King is actually The Crimson King Magnus...same references to Ahriman but why change to Yellow?

4. The Yellow King is Lorgar! He wore gold armour and had a golden (yellow) complexion and the Word Bearers are involved!

5. The Yellow King is Lord Inquisitor Rorken!

 

These are all really interesting theories and I don't discount any of them. However, I will add a few theories of my own regarding the identity of the Yellow King:

 

1. One of the perpetuals (John Grammaticus is a Psyker and had dealings with the Alpha Legion and Word Bearers before/during HH although it also seems that JG is now a mortal in the HH timeline as of end of Unremembered Empire). In Perihelion Eisenhorn detects his power but says it is young! Is that because he is a perpetual who has recently regenerated/been reborn? Abnett seems to be creating a wider linked mythos so I am sure he will provide more linkages between HH and W40k stories he does (already has with Enuncia and "I am Alpharius" for example).

 

2. Could the Yellow King be Ravenor? In The Magos Eisenhorn asks "could yellow mean flames? A figure burning head to foot. A symbolic name for someone who has burned through and been transmuted". Ravenor was burned and physically destroyed at the Triumph of Thracian! (And in the GG books Brostin calls fire Mr Yellow).

 

3. This one is more "out there" - Who is the biggest baddest dude in 40k who is famous for wearing yellow...or is that gold? A Gold wearing powerful psyker who is manipulating and controlling and has revisited Sancour over the millennia in the form of Orpheus (perhaps)? Isn't a "King" a ruler in the same way as an "Emperor"... Could the Yellow King be the God Emperor? Could it be just one of His manifestations (in the same way I think the Solar Priest was in Talon of Horus) and therefore not the full blown concentrated power of Him? Would that explain the reference to a young power by Eisenhorn in Perihelion? Perhaps He felt "young" because he was distant and it was just one aspect of the God Emperor's multi-faceted conscience? Also in The Magos when asked about who the Yellow King is Ravenor says to Eisenhorn "He's been there all the time, since the earliest days of everything"

Fraters please excuse the threadromancing but brother Byrd gave a like to this post that caused me to read it again and...hmmmm

 

Remember this thread is deliberately spoiler territory so if you teleported in STOP READING NOW

 

Still here?

 

Ok

So after reading Penitent it now appears that The Yellow King is Constantin Valdor. That’s cool. Very cool and makes sense. It would mean that Valdor has visited Sancour multiple times over the ten millennia in the form of Orpheus. Ok but hang on a minute...

 

In Perihelion it seems pretty clear that TYK is a psyker. Powerful but “young”. Was/is Valdor a psyker?

Is Abnett doing a bait and switch?

 

Am I still clinging to my head cannon too strongly (and the wish that TYK is actually The God Emperor)?

 

Probably but it has piqued my interest again so a re-read of Perihelion->Pariah->The Magos->Penitent is due very soon!

Maybe SOMETHING happened to him that mutated him, probably Warpbased in origin

 

What counts as young in 40k? Uriel Ventriss is what 300 years?

Edited April 29, 2022 by Brother Lunkhead

[DukeLeto69]

I think the way it was written in Perihelion the meaning of “young” was not so much in an age sense but more in a “still developing my skills or getting used to them, they are not fully formed” kind of way.

 

Will have to re-read it but at the time (probably to fit my head canon) I also took it to mean “distant and not able to fully project” and then stretched that to be an avatar of The God Emperor’s multi-faceted conscience (along the lines of Jaq Draco book one).

[Sothalor]

 

The mind was strong. I pushed at it, harder, harder still. I knew the psyker was stronger than me, but sometimes strength isn't everything. I was hoping to outflank it with skill and practiced technique, to wrong-foot it. The mind sounded young, not experienced enough to know every trick an old dog has in his book.

But it was hard to push, because the mind kept moving. There was a flexibility to the psionic pattern that was quite disturbing. It was fluid. It flitted, like a wild bird, from slave to slave, yet it did so with great purpose and accuracy. It was not simply ricocheting from one consciousness to the next.

It was fast. Strong and fast.

I pushed again. It slipped aside, but this time I came away holding some words torn off its elusive subconscious like a handful of grass.

Grael Ochre, the Yellow King.

'Grael Ochre. Is that your name?'

No answer.

'Yellow King... of what?'

No answer.

'Yellow for cowardice? Won't you reply?'

I pushed again.

'What is Orpheus, Grael Ochre?' I asked. 'Why does that word lurk so brightly in your mind?'

- Perihelion

 

 

There's no direct evidence that the encounter Eisenhorn has is with the Yellow King himself. Gregor encounters a psyker manifestation, pits his mind against it (and comes off the poorer overall), manages to pluck some words from his opponents subconscious.

 

He addresses the psychic presence as if it with the term 'Yellow King', but that's just an in-moment, operant assumption on his part paired with some grasping at straws for anything he can get.

 

Also note that Grael later is revealed to be a term for a specific thing later in Bequin. They're tools of the King, but thus far it seems unlikely that the King in Yellow himself is one - although, that possibility does open up all sorts of interesting speculative veins.

[Knockagh]

Just finished a reread of the wonderful Ravenor series. Completely buzzing for book 3 of the Bequin run. Dan is just superb at picking loose threads in books that he never intended to put together and make something marvellous out of it. Just look at what he did with the Vincula insurgency, if you haven’t read this do so. It’s a masterpiece in how to retro work a story and make it into something even more spectacular. What a guy, he’s ace.

[DarkChaplain]

Note: Dawn of Fire 4: Throne of Light is out next Saturday, but it looks like some stores already had it downloadable already again (as per usual these days). It might include some interesting tidbits for speculation regarding Pandaemonium.

 

Most notably, the Star Child concept is back in canon. Alexio and Fortez, as well as the Tzeentch cult of the Star Child are directly referenced. The Notes on the Crusade section gives a bit more of a summary of the whole thing. We've known from Dark Imperium: Godblight that something like this was back in the cards, but Dawn of Fire is the first to actively bring back references to the Star Child theory.

 

I'm eager to dig into the audiobook myself next Saturday, but oh boy, it looks to be a treat for speculation on multiple fronts, and might well end up tying into Bequin. Especially considering a few of us here had already speculated that the delays may also in part have been down to setting up some elements in the wider setting for Penitent and Pandaemonium to truly work its magic and go as far as it potentially might; Two Metaphysical Blades, for example, could be seen as a step in that road, and Throne of Light and Godblight might serve as bigger ones.

 

Time will tell!

[Knockagh]

I hear you sensei…… this is indeed a very cool development. Going behind the scenes of the battles into the realm of the warp though is difficult territory for a lot of the writers. How they handle and write this will make or break the new setting fluff wise. There’s not much for them in the gaming side from this, unless it splits the imperium and gives rise to new factions, which could very well be possible.

I agree it’s very very likely to be a significant part of the yellow king storyline.

[DarkChaplain]

Considering how Godblight ended with a bang for the setting that they seem to be leading up to even with Psychic Awakening, Codex fluff like the acts of faith of the Sororitas, and potentially even Wraight's Watchers of the Throne and Vaults of Terra, we might be in for some big shakeups for 10th Edition or beyond as-is.

Looking at the Squats returning and the timeline rejigging, I get the feeling that certain Black Library folks are more directly working towards the future of the setting than most of their stable.

 

Guy Haley, iirc, was said to have jumped much closer to the studio on the fluff side with Darkness in the Blood, and it's only gotten tighter with Dawn of Fire, I'd bet. He also said that it'll end with some big surprises for the readers, with some big oomph for the setting in a way. At least that was the early premise for the series. The way it already hooks up to some of the books from before, and how Godblight was pushed back as a result, with the twist being revealed and now worked up to again, it seems very deliberate.

 

I'd go as far as to say that the current 9th Edition and the current era of novels is firmly in the Preparation Phase. The studio hasn't been pushing hard on the fluff side lately, probably also due to covid slowing down production, but at this point I'd see it as more intentional. 8th had the entire Psychic Awakening stuff, Ghazghkull, etc. A lot of big events. 9th currently lacks those for the most part. Factions are being brought up to speed, models renewed, factions fleshed out or even added. But fluff-wise, the biggest thing are the Voltann-Squats, and I'd be surprised if a bunch of the fluff coming up won't be trying to tie them closer into the current fluff.

 

To me, it looks like the actually big, significant events that they started pushing with the Fall of Cadia, are being reserved for later in the 9th Edition cycle, to lead up to 10th and open that with another bang like they did by introducing Primaris, a new imperial crusade, the Rift and so forth.

 

From that perspective, I'd consider Dawn of Fire and Bequin/Pandaemonium as well as the upcoming Wraight books - heck, maybe even Black Legion 3, if it happens anytime soon - a good indicator of things to come. Too many plot threads both from BL and the studio that seem to herald something big in the not-too-distant future.

 

I wouldn't have believed this a few years back, when Penitent was eternally pending and the universe was for all intents stagnant. I didn't believe that Abnett would turn around and go as deep with the Yellow King as it appears after Penitent. But now, with the setting in upheaval? I'd be surprised if they ended up pulling these punches after all.

 

tl;dr

I'd argue 9th Edition and "main thread"-novels released during it to be effectively leading up to another big change in 10th Edition, and we're currently seeing more preparatory and repair work for the holes of 8th with its timeline weirdness and Psychic Awakening. It'd also explain some odd scheduling over the last few years, and growing narrative boldness from certain authors.