New Knight Castellan Revealed!

[PiñaColada]

Maybe the part Lysere agrees with would be a good first step to implement as a beta rule then? I still dislike if someone takes like and alaitoc army but puts in a detachment so they can get saim-hann shining spears because they're just so good.

 

Stray- The soup is the dinner. It counts!

 

I feel like the suggestions from banis had is good from a balance perspective but might be a bit convoluted. Separate CP pools are going to be annoying to keep track of I think. Redtoof might be on to something, but I'm not sure I prefer that wway to simply not allowing allies to give out CP

[Lysere]

Maybe the part Lysere agrees with would be a good first step to implement as a beta rule then? I still dislike if someone takes like and alaitoc army but puts in a detachment so they can get saim-hann shining spears because they're just so good.

 

Stray- The soup is the dinner. It counts!

 

I feel like the suggestions from banis had is good from a balance perspective but might be a bit convoluted. Separate CP pools are going to be annoying to keep track of I think. Redtoof might be on to something, but I'm not sure I prefer that wway to simply not allowing allies to give out CP

 

Perhaps limiting sub factions to all needing to be the same in a battle-forged list for units from the same codex. So you can take two guard detachments but they both need to be the same sub faction, and then bolt on a third detachment of an entirely different faction, that's not granting CP but gets their traits.

[Stray]

 

Maybe the part Lysere agrees with would be a good first step to implement as a beta rule then? I still dislike if someone takes like and alaitoc army but puts in a detachment so they can get saim-hann shining spears because they're just so good.

 

Stray- The soup is the dinner. It counts!

 

That's the other issue when it comes to soup (which is totally a drink ), it massively favours some players over others in matched play.

 

Play as Space Marines, and you have what? 10+ other armies that you can take a detachment of and use fully. No real restrictions, and all the goodness. Chaos marines? Similar story. Aeldari? Not quite as much of selection, but there's a lot of options in the three or four significantly different armies you can pull from.

 

But as a Tau player? Or Necron? Or Ork? Tyranid? You get... nothing. Well, almost nothing. That's a huge advantage that 8th edition has handed out to some factions over others really.

For me, in matched play, especially in Tournament situations, it seems much more balanced to say no allies at all - play your faction only. Or do what 7th did and let any combo be used. It's not fluffy, but nor are Tourneys generally, and a sense of fairness is likely more important there :/

[Lysere]

Well with Knights it'll be a bit harder to soup when running three of the big guys but it can work. Ran a Gallant, Warden, and Crusader the other day with two Warglaives and some Scions.

 

Would've been a solid win if the Warden had actually been rolling average.

[Heliomanes]

Just banning allies altogether isn't a good solution either, neither for fluff nor balance. In a mono faction meta, most competitive players would have to turn to the strongest codex - turning the dial back to what the Eldar codex was for a good while in past editions. Limiting the ability to generate CPs to a single faction seems like a good restriction though.

[Guest MistaGav]

I like the idea of allies and I think they are a real key component of 8th whether people like it or not. For 180 points, I can add about 32 cheap dudes that provides more bodies, more targets, more screening and more objective camping. Even if they gave 0cp I would still consider. Also allies just compliment other factions weaknesses and strengths so well hence why Custodes + AM are so prevalent at the moment.

 

I would propose a simple rule to tone them down a bit: For each detachment that features a different faction keyword from that of your warlord but still considered battleforged -2cp.

 

So knights + AM would mean -2cp whichever is your warlord. Custodes + AM + knight would mean -4cp so it really disincentives taking more than one ally but there is still a little something. Then also maybe another rule that adds a few CP if every detachment that is the same faction keyword as your warlord adds 1-2cp.

[CaptainMarsh]

What do people think of the Warden? This will be my first foray into knights and I like the Avenger.

[Stray]

Just banning allies altogether isn't a good solution either, neither for fluff nor balance. In a mono faction meta, most competitive players would have to turn to the strongest codex - turning the dial back to what the Eldar codex was for a good while in past editions. Limiting the ability to generate CPs to a single faction seems like a good restriction though.

 

I agree, and like allies too. Trouble is we can't pretend some don't benefit hugely from it, while others get no benefit at all :/.

 

When you can use these selections to also increase CP etc as well, it starts to look like someone is just being punished for choosing to enjoy say Tau. In our own little groups, it's no big deal. At somewhere like the LVO though? That's a serious aspect of the game that is simply devoid of even the pretense of balance.

 

Then again, I can't say I have a solution

[PiñaColada]

What do people think of the Warden? This will be my first foray into knights and I like the Avenger.

The warden is pretty solid in my opinion. The new relic avenger (endless fury) is a damn solid gun. That, alongside the fact that melee is pretty decent now depending on which house trait you choose (assuming you get to pick one) and the price drop on both the gun and the knight chassis makes the knight a good deal.

[Stray]

What do people think of the Warden? This will be my first foray into knights and I like the Avenger.

 

It's superb. Possibly for me, the most balanced and generally useful of all the Knights now. The Avenger is great, it does some good work chewing up infantry, elites and light vehicles, and a Gauntlet now puts serious hurt on everything else - even other super heavies.

 

As a first Knight, it's arguable, but given what we've seen from the codex I'd probably advise it over many of the others now.

[Lysere]

 

What do people think of the Warden? This will be my first foray into knights and I like the Avenger.

The warden is pretty solid in my opinion. The new relic avenger (endless fury) is a damn solid gun. That, alongside the fact that melee is pretty decent now depending on which house trait you choose (assuming you get to pick one) and the price drop on both the gun and the knight chassis makes the knight a good deal.

 

 

Honestly if you're not taking the relic version it's still lackluster unless you're against a lot of infantry. I wouldn't take more than one gatling in a list if possible. Too many other solid weapon choices at this point but the Warden is a solid option because it also has the melee. Still prefer the Crusader but I'm planning on mostly playing Hawkshroud since I like their warlord trait and strat.

[DeStinyFiSh]

Yeah, we are back on topic

 

My favourite is the Gallant to be honest. I will give him Landstrider and Sanctuary and he will help my Ad Mech units to get out of their deployment zone by putting pressure onto the opponent for a relatively low budget.

But I think Warden and Crusader are still the best options, especially with the Endless Fury gun!

[Lysere]

Yeah, we are back on topic

 

My favourite is the Gallant to be honest. I will give him Landstrider and Sanctuary and he will help my Ad Mech units to get out of their deployment zone by putting pressure onto the opponent for a relatively low budget.

But I think Warden and Crusader are still the best options, especially with the Endless Fury gun!

 

Honestly I don't think the relic is even necessary on a Gallant. I guess it'll depend on your match up but he's definitely the last knight I give a relic when setting up.

[Stray]

Crusader is all guns, Gallant is all stabby stabby. They're both great, but they're extremes. The ol' Warden, he does both - and that's a decent place to be when you're learning how Knights function with your first one. 

 

You can always magnetise an arm or two and make any of the others anyway.

 

(Edit: Psst - also, you're doing it right. The Avenger is for many of us the best Questorus gun. Here's why: 'How many shots boys?' Thermal: '2,4,1,5,2,6,1...', 'Uh huh, RFBC?' RFBC: '4, 12!.. 2, 7, 3, 9, 4...' 'Avenger?' Avenger: '12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12...' Reliable. Ol' reliable she is ;) )

[PiñaColada]

Of the questoris knights my new favourite might be the preceptor though. I don't think it's the best but dual firing modes on the gun is nice. And it buffs the armigers which is great because I love those models and they're pretty good now. They also looks so admech! Couple the preceptor with the relic that buffs armigers and he's a proud dad cheering his kids on to devastating effect :)

 

I'm still sad there seems to be no las-impulsor relic though

[Heliomanes]

I honestly think the Gallant seems like the best option so far, at the very least for the Questoris chassis. They have so many fantastic stratagems, they are by far the cheapest, and you can build some real interesting combos with household traditions, warlord traits and relics for them.

For instance (this is just from the top of my head, we can certainly find better combinations);

House Terryn - for the tradition (roll extra dice for advance and charge, and discard lowest), and the stratagem which lets a knight fight twice in the combat phase.

Knight gallant 1:
Relic: 2+ armor save
Warlord trait: add 2 to advance and charge for knights within 6'

Knight gallant 2:
Relic: Ravager
Warlord trait: 4++ invuln vs shooting

Knight gallant 3:
Relic: 5++ invuln in melee
Warlord trait: 1 reroll +1 command point

Combine this with, for instance, the stratagem that lets you advance and charge. The added bonuses to both are nuts. Or the "Death Grip" stratagem that lets you squish things. Rotating ion shields once in shooting and once in melee. Fighting twice. And so on.

[Stray]

I honestly think the Gallant seems like the best option so far, at the very least for the Questoris chassis. They have so many fantastic stratagems, they are by far the cheapest, and you can build some real interesting combos with household traditions, warlord traits and relics for them.

 

For instance (this is just from the top of my head, we can certainly find better combinations);

 

House Terryn - for the tradition (roll extra dice for advance and charge, and discard lowest), and the stratagem which lets a knight fight twice in the combat phase.

 

Knight gallant 1:

Relic: 2+ armor save

Warlord trait: add 2 to advance and charge for knights within 6'

 

Knight gallant 2:

Relic: Ravager

Warlord trait: 4++ invuln vs shooting

 

Knight gallant 3:

Relic: 5++ invuln in melee

Warlord trait: 1 reroll +1 command point

 

Combine this with, for instance, the stratagem that lets you advance and charge. The added bonuses to both are nuts. Or the "Death Grip" stratagem that lets you squish things. Rotating ion shields once in shooting and once in melee. Fighting twice. And so on.

 

Yeah, the Gallant I think is my favourite Questorus variant now too. It's the kid that got tired of having sand kicked in it's face, stood up and realised, 'I'm really strong'. *Death grip*.

[CaptainMarsh]

I plan on running a Warden, a Gallant, and a Castellan in my Lance. Should be fun to see!

[Prot]

I honestly think the Gallant seems like the best option so far, at the very least for the Questoris chassis. They have so many fantastic stratagems, they are by far the cheapest, and you can build some real interesting combos with household traditions, warlord traits and relics for them.

For instance (this is just from the top of my head, we can certainly find better combinations);

House Terryn - for the tradition (roll extra dice for advance and charge, and discard lowest), and the stratagem which lets a knight fight twice in the combat phase.

Knight gallant 1:

Relic: 2+ armor save

Warlord trait: add 2 to advance and charge for knights within 6'

Knight gallant 2:

Relic: Ravager

Warlord trait: 4++ invuln vs shooting

Knight gallant 3:

Relic: 5++ invuln in melee

Warlord trait: 1 reroll +1 command point

Combine this with, for instance, the stratagem that lets you advance and charge. The added bonuses to both are nuts. Or the "Death Grip" stratagem that lets you squish things. Rotating ion shields once in shooting and once in melee. Fighting twice. And so on.

Helio you gotta stop doing this... it’s killing me. Every time I think I have a house picked, someone drops a juicy detail that makes me change my mind. Lol

[Clingy]

House Taranis for me, not just because mine is painted that way but for the ‘zombie knight’

[LucidNinja]

Just a thought, I wonder if the dominus legs will work on the questoris body and vice versa?

[Tyriks]

They'd look weird, I bet. They're a lot beefier than Questoris legs.

[General Strike]

Okay now give me the best house, relics, and warlord traits for a shooting knight army. Something like a Castellan, 2x Crusaders, an Errant, and a Warden.

[Gaz1858]

Okay now give me the best house, relics, and warlord traits for a shooting knight army. Something like a Castellan, 2x Crusaders, an Errant, and a Warden.

 

Vulkar

Battle Cannon, Endless Fury, Twin Icarus Autocannon

6s on wounds cause Mortal (non relic weapons)

1CP Stratagem for every hit of a 6 equalling 2 hits

 

So RFBD rolls 2D6 shots. Any 6s to hit mean 2 hits and any 6s to wound are mortal in addition to normal'

Endless Fury fires 14 shots with any 6s to hit meaning 4 hits

Twin Icarus Autocannon fires 4 shots with any 6s meaning 2 hits

2 Stubbers firing 6 shots with any 6s to hit giving 2 hits

 

And if the target happens to be the closest enemy unit you reroll 1s to hit

[Heliomanes]

Okay now give me the best house, relics, and warlord traits for a shooting knight army. Something like a Castellan, 2x Crusaders, an Errant, and a Warden.

I don't think we have " the best house" for it yet. But here's nothing;

 

If you want to use a Castellan, you'll always want to use a Questor Mechanicus house, since it gives you access to the relic plasma weapon "Cawl's Wrath". You'll also want to get access to rerolling 1s, so you can overcharge it in relative safety.

 

Vulker is ok, but I prefer Raven. Their Household Tradition allow for shooting with assault and heavy weapons after advancing without a hit penalty, which translates to a flat movement bonus for shooty knights. They also have a wonderful stratagem that will let you reroll ALL 1s for a knight in the shooting phase. That means 1s to hit, 1s to wound, 1s when you roll for number of shots etc. It really complements the Castellan chassis wonderfully.