Commissars are back! Guard and the big FAQ

[Wassa]

They should have made an exception for Sly Marbo too. “Lethal Ambush” and “Cult Ambush” are pretty similar abilities.

 

Commissar Yarrick is still pretty expensive too.

[Feral_80]

Complains about not being able to spam stuff are silly. That is exactly the point, spamming is bad and you should be happy there is a way to prevent it now. Besides, it really does not affect 'normal' AM lists that much. We have only benefitted from this FAQ so far.

 

Apart from poor Inquisitors. I guess they were just forgotten, and next time they'll get a rule similar to that provided for Assassins & c.

[Withershadow]

As someone with only 3 non-special character HQ options for my Drukhari, none of whom can be in the same detachment, it's really hard for me to take my fellow Guard Commanders' complaints seriously.

[our_baz]

You spend some time away from the barracks, prepping your ETL vows and this happens! Were GW reading our threads on Commissars? They are usable again .

My take on the FAQ, positive changes. Smite changes are good, with a caveat for pyskic armies (needed).

Soup restrictions I'm on board with (likely designed for the competitive meta), but looks like Inquistors are a little lost now. But with the increase in CP bringing them (if you want) fo -1CP isn't too much of a bind. 

Rule of 3, as I've been on the wrong end of Dreadnought and scout bike spam, I think it can discourage min/maxing, which could be good for seeing  diverse armies. It does hit IG a bit but it can be worked around.

T1 Deepstrike beta, on the fence with this (mainly as I avoid using it, my meta is clued up to avoid it). It looks a little heavy handed. But GW obviously thought something needed to be done. A more balanced approach should come out in the wash on this.

 

Just read this one:
 

Q: Some Characters have aura abilities, such as a
Commissar’s Aura of Discipline or a Chaplain’s Spiritual Leader, that allow nearby friendly units to use the character’s Leadership characteristic instead of their own. There are also lots of abilities that modify Leadership characteristics. Could you explain
how these rules interact and in what order I should apply the substitution and any modifications?
A: You modify the Leadership characteristic first,
then you use the character’s Leadership characteristic
instead (this means that the modification will not affect
the unit unless the character’s Leadership has also
been modified)

Means my Mordians dont get to add one to Commissar or Banner buffs
Edit:
Banner should still work as its +1. However Commissars wont. Im ok with that

 

Its good they have put that issue to bed. As a fellow Mordian player gives us various options for good reliable Ld buff's

[NatBrannigan]

Like all of this.

 

Don't like how in the main thread about this FAQ the grumblings about Guard being overpowered are back... I must admit I'm surprised a Brigade gives you so many CP's now, I thought we'd be losing some!

 

Hopefully the restrictions on Imperium soups stop people abusing our Infantry and the grumblings will go away!

[domsto]

Like all of this.

 

Don't like how in the main thread about this FAQ the grumblings about Guard being overpowered are back... I must admit I'm surprised a Brigade gives you so many CP's now, I thought we'd be losing some!

 

Hopefully the restrictions on Imperium soups stop people abusing our Infantry and the grumblings will go away!

The new soup rule changes nothing for the current soups that are played on Tournaments.

You are still able to pick a AM detachment and a Space Marines detachment in one army for example

and now that battalion brings 5cp i think you will see a AM Battalion in every Imperium tournament list now.

[Feral_80]

Only somebody who has not played in the last 5 months can still believe to the myth of AM being overpowered.

 

I've tried to point it out in the thread, but I guess it will hardly be noticed. No way to reason with whiners.

[crimsondave]

So what got fixed with the new keyword/detachment rules?  Were people bringing a bunch of mixed detachments?

[duz_]

I think when it comes to the competitive scene we can all agree:

All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again

;)

 

 

Lets not focus too much on the hypothetical what if's. This thread would serve all better to discuss specifically how these changes impact your list good or bad.

 

Having gone through the main FAQ last night there's a couple more in there that could impact a guard commander. I also think they missed a few items. If I get a chance I want to send through and email with a few questions of my own.

 

As always gents keep it civil and constructive :tu:

[NatBrannigan]

Ah I see what you mean about the soup actually being made worse! Oh my.... How did they come to that decision? I don't want any more CP's! I can't spend the ones I have now and I don't like the nasty looks I get when I'm telling my opponent about my army pre-game...

 

Having said that our Strategems certainly don't seem as good as other codex's, or is that just me? The Volley Fire Mordian stratagem is great but after it took about 20 minutes to shoot one unit using that and FRFSRF on a combined squad I'll never use it again...

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I have to say, I'm ok with all of this. In the end, GW makes the rules. 

 

Commissars: I love that the rule is optional now. 

 

Matched Play Rules:

I'm really happy that mixed detachments are no longer a thing. I'm also really happy that they've come out with rules for organized play, and the datasheet restrictions should help keep spam to a minimum. Organized play restricts the number of detachments that players can take as well, so again, keeps spam down. 

 

Basically, with the game type changes to 8th edition (Open, Match, and Narrative) we can play however we like. I love that open play lets me recycle conscripts endlessly with the valhallan doctrine, while you have to pay for reinforcements in match play. 

 

The boost to CP is very welcome, at least for me. 

 

 

Having said that our Strategems certainly don't seem as good as other codex's, or is that just me? The Volley Fire Mordian stratagem is great but after it took about 20 minutes to shoot one unit using that and FRFSRF on a combined squad I'll never use it again...

I'd only use the consolidate squads strat to combine understrength units. you have 2 units with 6 guys each, that took a beating in your gunline? Now you have a 12 man squad.

[our_baz]

Does the FAQ effect my list. Partially. Gone are the days of running a Imperium Vanguard for 1CP to get my assassins into my list. But they can still come and play in a Vanguard for 0CP. With the CP changes it actually make me better off.

This means more 20 man blobs with Mordian Volley Fire Strat + plus FRFSRF in rapid fire range (Sorry @NatBrannigan, but this was so amusing to pull off).

Of the other changes 1T Deepstrike, doesn't affect my list as I dont use Scions as mine are cursed.

Smite as I run between 2-3 psykers so a possible minor inconvenience. But I use our psykers for buffs rather than smite spam.

Rule of 3, for me again no. The most of anything I bring is LRBT and they are in a squadron.

And Commies, they will find themselves back in my lists. As I run Mordian doctrines Ld buffs are in-built. But I can deffo see myself using a Lord Commissar now, as another Ld buff.

 

For me its a pint more than half full on these changes in terms of how its affects my lists. 

[Shamansky]

At my last tournament i had 14 CP total without Creed but with the warlord trait and laurels. And i could not find where to spend them more. 3 relics, Commissar's Leman Russ, rerolls, cadian, tallaran and unit special stratagems, morale saves, even 'fire on my position' was used and i still had 3-5 by the end of the games. Without changes to getting CPs back it looks like the Guard can 'party like a russian' with them.  

Rule of 3 would not hurt me either as it leaves my Troops alone.

Optional execution is weird fluff-wise but better than the previous variant and gives us even more options to amass CPs *laughs like Bender Rodriguez*

Do not really got what and why was fixed in 'Overlaping Fields of Fire'.

And YES! The trash-list-building era is over! No more Celestine+Bobby G+cusk of mortars called Cadian brigade. 

[Feral_80]

Hum I have a doubt...perhaps I have not read the Battle Brothers soup fix properly, but as far as I understand what it does is forcing all units in the same ("each", not "any") detachment to share a keyword that is not Imperium/Chaos etc.

 

In practice, what is the effect of this limitation? It does not seem that much to me. We can still take 1 detachment all made of Marines, 1 all of Sisters and 1 all of Guard. What we cannot do is mixing other units from index armies (Inquisitors, Assassins, Sisters, etc.) along with the only 2 'regiments' that we used to mix because they lost nothing by doing so (i.e. Krieg and Elysian). As all codexes will be released eventually, it is reasonable to assume that they will all implement the same mechanic: an army loses its 'regiment' bonus if it is mixed with other armies in the same detachment, and this will certainly be the case for Sisters. 'Agents' like Inquisitors etc. will probably have rules that allow to mix them in other detachments without jeopardizing any bonus, that's all. Most of the soup based on Imperium etc. stuff was already going to be reduced by the natural progression of the next codex releases.

 

It does not seem too dramatic as a fix to me. How many of used to include a mixed Krieg/Sisters/Inquisitor/Assassin detachment before anyway? I don't see how this prevents a Custodes detachment from being coupled with a (now even better) AM basic Battalion.

 

Or am I reading this wrong?

[crimsondave]

Hum I have a doubt...perhaps I have not read the Battle Brothers soup fix properly, but as far as I understand what it does is forcing all units in the same ("each", not "any") detachment to share a keyword that is not Imperium/Chaos etc.

 

In practice, what is the effect of this limitation? It does not seem that much to me. We can still take 1 detachment all made of Marines, 1 all of Sisters and 1 all of Guard. What we cannot do is mixing other units from index armies (Inquisitors, Assassins, Sisters, etc.) along with the only 2 'regiments' that we used to mix because they lost nothing by doing so (i.e. Krieg and Elysian). As all codexes will be released eventually, it is reasonable to assume that they will all implement the same mechanic: an army loses its 'regiment' bonus if it is mixed with other armies in the same detachment, and this will certainly be the case for Sisters. 'Agents' like Inquisitors etc. will probably have rules that allow to mix them in other detachments without jeopardizing any bonus, that's all. Most of the soup based on Imperium etc. stuff was already going to be reduced by the natural progression of the next codex releases.

 

It does not seem too dramatic as a fix to me. How many of used to include a mixed Krieg/Sisters/Inquisitor/Assassin detachment before anyway? I don't see how this prevents a Custodes detachment from being coupled with a (now even better) AM basic Battalion.

 

Or am I reading this wrong?

 

I had the same question and have not gotten an answer.  Were people actually using mixed detachments or were they running 3 detachments like you describe?  I don't think this is fixing very much besides the Morty/Mag + Knight detachment.

[Feral_80]

Yep well if anything it seems to address some uber-combos like that one with Chaos, or some crazy Ynnari/Eldar stuff. But not much else - i.e. not 'normal' soups.

 

I seem to be missing the point, although I am certainly in favour of limiting uber-detachments like those. It seems rather ineffectual with Imperium at least.

[our_baz]

Hum I have a doubt...perhaps I have not read the Battle Brothers soup fix properly, but as far as I understand what it does is forcing all units in the same ("each", not "any") detachment to share a keyword that is not Imperium/Chaos etc.

 

In practice, what is the effect of this limitation? It does not seem that much to me. We can still take 1 detachment all made of Marines, 1 all of Sisters and 1 all of Guard. What we cannot do is mixing other units from index armies (Inquisitors, Assassins, Sisters, etc.) along with the only 2 'regiments' that we used to mix because they lost nothing by doing so (i.e. Krieg and Elysian). As all codexes will be released eventually, it is reasonable to assume that they will all implement the same mechanic: an army loses its 'regiment' bonus if it is mixed with other armies in the same detachment, and this will certainly be the case for Sisters. 'Agents' like Inquisitors etc. will probably have rules that allow to mix them in other detachments without jeopardizing any bonus, that's all. Most of the soup based on Imperium etc. stuff was already going to be reduced by the natural progression of the next codex releases.

 

It does not seem too dramatic as a fix to me. How many of used to include a mixed Krieg/Sisters/Inquisitor/Assassin detachment before anyway? I don't see how this prevents a Custodes detachment from being coupled with a (now even better) AM basic Battalion.

 

Or am I reading this wrong?

Your reading of it is correct IMHO. If you play in an environment where you are only allowed to take a single detachment it will make a difference.

The effect of the change just depends on how you play i suppose.

 

Edit: To answer you question only every used a mixed detachment (Imperium Vangaurd) as a way to access assassins. In addition to my Mordian Battalion Detachment.

[duz_]

I think it was a bit of both, with Index armies were being mixed with guard for cheap CP's and special characters.

 

As for the FAQ, I think it does little to prevent guard being taken in general to far CP's. Or mix and matching Chaos / Imperium forces in general.

I'm not sure how they're going to fix the problem though without ruling out allies completely, or allowing Xeno's to pair up?

 

I'm ok with allies and using guard for CP's. Lore wise it makes sense, Guard are in pretty much every theatre being the mainline of defence. 

[Withershadow]

The problem with just paying a CP for an auxiliary detachment is that those same organized play guidelines* call for only 3 detachments. It's hard to waste that on a single Inquisitor.  But we do have native options again for morale, so I guess it's not the end of the world.  Hopefully they expand the Inquisitor's rule to allow his inclusion in any Imperial army as an extra HQ (maybe non-compulsory one).

 

We may see Guard a little bit less, since now they can get more CPs just by running their own stuff in battalions, but we shall see.

 

Mixed detachments are there to kick in the teeth Ynnari and superheavy detachments of Magnus/Mortarion/Renegade Knight.  The latter was actually specifically called out during the open chat they had before the FAQ release.

 

 

*please let's not start another "matched play is not organized play!" debate, it effectively is for me everywhere I play

[Tirak]

I decided to make a video about my thoughts on the changes. Shameless self promotion but the TL:DR is mostly good, some bad, overall happy.

 

https://youtu.be/g6jOB5ZOaFE

[Mekhitar]

Soup lists went hand in hand with index armies (which had nothing to lose from souping up in detachments) - throwing Celestine and squad of seraphim or a few marine scouts together on the side of your ‘main’ list, just to grab an early relic or deny DS. They are less of a thing the more codexes come out, but they still pop up.

[H311fi5h]

I feel many non-Guard players dislike guard for being used as CP batteries for other Imperium armies such as Custodes or Blood Angels. That won't stop, it actually might be getting worse. Sure, a "pure" army can now get more CP's with a battaltion. But it is even better to include that one AM battalion and not waste any points on Tactical Squads or Custodian Guard.

[librisrouge]

I feel many non-Guard players dislike guard for being used as CP batteries for other Imperium armies such as Custodes or Blood Angels. That won't stop, it actually might be getting worse. Sure, a "pure" army can now get more CP's with a battaltion. But it is even better to include that one AM battalion and not waste any points on Tactical Squads or Custodian Guard.

Heck, IG players are kinda pissed that our faction is mostly other folks’ CP batteries.

[domsto]

Oh there is nothing more frustrating if you play against a "Space Marines" player and 2/3 of his Models are Imperial Guard

[Beams]

As someone with only 3 non-special character HQ options for my Drukhari, none of whom can be in the same detachment, it's really hard for me to take my fellow Guard Commanders' complaints seriously.

Adepta Sororitas have one nonnammed character.

 

Factions aren't equal, and Guard releies heavily on their orders, espec