New DeathWatch Codex Primaris Kill Team

[Kisada]

 

 

Ohhhh!!! Deathwatch have access to Mortis Dreads! I totally missed this! Man Deathwatch is going to be really scary with Forgeworld units and their new rules. 

 

 

Hmmmm ... Mortis Dreads with mission tactics giving them +1 to wound ... hmmm

[Matt_149]

I already have a plan for autocannon Mortis dreads and leviathan with stormcannons arrays

[CCE1981]

 

 

Intercessors + 5 Inceptors Combat Squad them. You now have 5x toughness 5, 2-wound, 10” move troops (guessing they have objective secured), that can mix Plasma and Assault bolters.

 

Alternatively you can do the same with Aggressors or Hellblasters to hold a backline objective.

You don't have to fill out the squad to get the T5. Both kill teams get a rule called "mixed units." You basically get majority toughness OR the DW player's choice of toughness if there are multiple in a kill team. As written, you can have 1 T5 model and still have T5 for the unit.... unless he dies (which is assumed at this point, may need to be FAQ'd).

Uhmm, how does that translate from Inceptors or Aggressors can be troops?

[Mobius0288]

 

 

Intercessors + 5 Inceptors Combat Squad them. You now have 5x toughness 5, 2-wound, 10” move troops (guessing they have objective secured), that can mix Plasma and Assault bolters.

 

Alternatively you can do the same with Aggressors or Hellblasters to hold a backline objective.

You don't have to fill out the squad to get the T5. Both kill teams get a rule called "mixed units." You basically get majority toughness OR the DW player's choice of toughness if there are multiple in a kill team. As written, you can have 1 T5 model and still have T5 for the unit.... unless he dies (which is assumed at this point, may need to be FAQ'd).

Uhmm, how does that translate from Inceptors or Aggressors can be troops?

 

 

So I was wrong on the T5 part, it's only if you have equal or great T5 models in the unit. But kill teams now get the combat squad ability if it's a unit of 10. Kill teams are troop choices. If I combat squad a kill team that has 5 intercessors and 5 hellblasters, I get 2 units that are troop choices. If you take the Hellblasters in your heavy support slot instead, it will remain a heavy support choice no matter what.

 

So more to your point, 5 intercessors, 3 aggressors and 2 inceptors in a Fortis Kill Team. I can combat squad them into 5 intercessors and the aggressors/inceptors into 2 units. My aggressor/inceptor unit can now fall back and shoot, advance and shoot w/o penalty, and have objective secured.

[Moostick]

I certainly hope they don't FAQ combat squad out (or that there isn't some rule saying at least 1 vet needs to stay in each split unit), but considering their track record, I wouldn't be surprised if that was not intended and actually a misplacement.

[mjrwaud]

Methinks "Combat Squad" is going to get FAQ'd real fast...

 

Does a combat squad still count as being part of a full unit for purposes of the special rules granted by adding aggessors / inceptors so that they maintain the rules if divided? I wouldn't think so... it seems like real cheezy rule lawyering to split a unit into 3 intercessors + 2 aggressors and 2 intercessors + 3 inceptors while giving all the special rules to both squads.

[Finkmilkana]

Don’t the special rules also vanish once the model giving it dies? If so there would be no reason why combat squad wouldn’t remove it.

[Sawtooth]

Has there been any indication that Primaris Watch Masters will be an option? My gut says no but I haven't seen anything hinting either way. Just curious.

[Irbis]

But kill teams now get the combat squad ability if it's a unit of 10. Kill teams are troop choices. If I combat squad a kill team that has 5 intercessors and 5 hellblasters, I get 2 units that are troop choices. If you take the Hellblasters in your heavy support slot instead, it will remain a heavy support choice no matter what.

 

Yeah, I can see it being FAQ away very soon. Also, in your example, you lose hellblaster sarge plus his better stats and gear, so there is some tradeoff even now...

 

Has there been any indication that Primaris Watch Masters will be an option? My gut says no but I haven't seen anything hinting either way. Just curious.

 

Nope. In fact, DW has least available sheets of Primaris officers of all SM, because reasons

[Mobius0288]

 

But kill teams now get the combat squad ability if it's a unit of 10. Kill teams are troop choices. If I combat squad a kill team that has 5 intercessors and 5 hellblasters, I get 2 units that are troop choices. If you take the Hellblasters in your heavy support slot instead, it will remain a heavy support choice no matter what.

 

Yeah, I can see it being FAQ away very soon. Also, in your example, you lose hellblaster sarge plus his better stats and gear, so there is some tradeoff even now...

 

 

Ya that needs to be considered, for sure. Especially now that there's a Sgt list of weapons... and biker Sgts would get access to those, where the rest of bikers would not. A biker Sgt with a storm bolter? Why yes please. I doubt it will be "FAQ'd" later. They haven't been Erreta'ing a lot after codexes come out. Plus, the intention is to let us have access to more kill team types and this mechanic let's us do that. I am one of those people that emailed/social media'd requests to get more types of kill teams, and I know several others that did as well.

 

This also plays into your comment about datasheet limitations. We have a whole lot of cool stuff available to us. We can now be better then space marines if played right, or fantastic allies to many imperium armies... where before, we were far too expensive and capabilities fell short to even consider us a useful ally. Heck, I can ditch regular termies in my ultramarine army and take a DW kill team (storm bolters) and a Captain, and kill stuff BETTER for cheaper.

 

Everyone's go to is "omg that's broke, it's going to be FAQ'd." Dude how long have they been pumping out codexes for 8th? And you really think they misprinted "Combat Squads" in all of the infantry data sheets? Really? We finally have some teeth guys. Get on board. Kinda carried over from several other discussions I had else where but still needs to be said. <end rant>

[Moostick]

...but all the codex releases have been riddled with mistakes?

 

Regardless, we will need to wait until the codex is released for the exact wording. I would love to have 3 bikers and 2 VVs, but blindly following questionable things without questioning something is not a good way to go about anything.

[dicebod]

So for a backfield, objective camping Fortis kill team, I see lots of folks espousing taking 5x Stalker Bolter Intercessors, 4x Heavy Plasma Incinerator Hellblasters & an Aggressor to let them move and shoot without penalty.  I can see the appeal here - with the right ammo, your Intercessor can be taking a -3 AP shot @ 36" or a -2 AP Shot @ 42".

 

Question is, is the increased range on the Stalker really worth the fewer shots?  Once the enemy is within 18", you're firing twice @ AP -2 with a stock bolt rifle, and you can still reach out (if you need to) with 1 AP -3 shot @ 24".  To me, that 6 extra inches you get out of the stalker isn't worth the extra cost or the decreased flexibility...change my mind?

 

My thoughts are also the same on the Heavy Plasma for the Hellblasters.  Sure, you are shooting @ -1 strength...but with the right Doctrine you can still be wounding MEQs on a 2+ without overcharging on the standard gun.  And since you really don't need the Aggressor anymore, you can add another Hellblaster to the unit.

[Sawtooth]

I'm personally tinkering with the maniac footslogger squad idea. Auto bolt rifles, at least an Aggressor, Reiver with carbine, Inceptor with plasma, and maybe assault Hellblaster. Advance down the field in a fire frenzy at anything in range, retreat out of combat and pour dakka into target as needed. I have no idea if this is a good idea but it makes me cackle thinking about it.

[Lemondish]

I'm personally tinkering with the maniac footslogger squad idea. Auto bolt rifles, at least an Aggressor, Reiver with carbine, Inceptor with plasma, and maybe assault Hellblaster. Advance down the field in a fire frenzy at anything in range, retreat out of combat and pour dakka into target as needed. I have no idea if this is a good idea but it makes me cackle thinking about it.

 

I want to do this as well. It's also beneficial that the auto bolt rifle is the coolest looking of the bunch.

 

I'm thinking I'll use 2 - one for backfield board control, the other as the mobile aggressors before I activate the Vets in transports/deep strike. 

[Kisada]

Maybe instead of an aggressor in that group an inceptor for when they want to charge you to stop your shooting?

[Ahistorian]

Man o man but I hope Primaris sergeants get access to the sergeant equipment list. That and access to the Corvus would sell me on a Primaris Deathwatch army

[Sawtooth]

As for backfield camping, I'm actually thinking the role of the Stalker in this army is better served as mobile long range fire support. I think taking advantage of the Aggressor buff might be key to such a unit.

[Ahistorian]

I use Stalkers with my BA successor Primaris, and I'm not sure they're worth it given SIA.

[Doghouse]

Man o man but I hope Primaris sergeants get access to the sergeant equipment list. That and access to the Corvus would sell me on a Primaris Deathwatch army

 

I know Corvus can't carry Primaris and Sergeants can replace their bolt rifle with a chainsword or power sword or a just take a power sword or chainsword.

[Lemondish]

Man o man but I hope Primaris sergeants get access to the sergeant equipment list. That and access to the Corvus would sell me on a Primaris Deathwatch army

 

Sorry to ruin your day - they don't gain access to the sergeant equipment list and they cannot ride in the Blackstar. 

 

Which is why I'm going to use mine as the force that holds their ground until I deliver the glasscannon Vets. Or I'll add a Repulsor - bet that would look really nice in DW colours...

[Ahistorian]

Well that is a totally predictable shame :/

 

But DW Repulsors will likely look ace!

[Mobius0288]

Ya I was initially excited about the heavy stalker bolter rifles too, but our veteran's stalker bolters got improved slightly with AP and remained the same price. I think have 2 shots on a cheaper model is going to be a little better. The stalker bolt rifle would really only be good if you plan to move and shoot... then ya, the aggressor and hellblasters would go well together.  Adding Hellblasters, at least for me, just begs for a Captain to be nearby. Maybe a Primaris Capt with MC stalker bolt rifle? The tempest shell stratagem would also go well since they have the furthest (unmodified) range of all the SIA capable guns.

 

I'm thinking either add an aggressor and create an advancing/assault unit with Reivers and an inceptor, or just regular intercessors with a couple hellblasters spread out into multiple squads. Maybe even add an inceptor if I have the points. I'm definitely going to focus the rest of my points on our regular veterans since they have much better weapon choices.

[Lemondish]

Ya I was initially excited about the heavy stalker bolter rifles too, but our veteran's stalker bolters got improved slightly with AP and remained the same price. I think have 2 shots on a cheaper model is going to be a little better. The stalker bolt rifle would really only be good if you plan to move and shoot... then ya, the aggressor and hellblasters would go well together.  Adding Hellblasters, at least for me, just begs for a Captain to be nearby. Maybe a Primaris Capt with MC stalker bolt rifle? The tempest shell stratagem would also go well since they have the furthest (unmodified) range of all the SIA capable guns.

 

I'm thinking either add an aggressor and create an advancing/assault unit with Reivers and an inceptor, or just regular intercessors with a couple hellblasters spread out into multiple squads. Maybe even add an inceptor if I have the points. I'm definitely going to focus the rest of my points on our regular veterans since they have much better weapon choices.

 

My thoughts exactly. I think I'll just have a unit of really aggressive Primaris using all Assault weapons and another unit with basic bolt rifles that can reach out to 36'' with AP -2 sitting in the backfield. 

 

Apropos of nothing, anyone familiar with the sprues for Reivers and the multi-part Intercessors? I feel like the Reiver chest pieces would fit DW far better since they kind of look like the Kill team ones...but are they easily swapped? 

[Ahistorian]

Not really, all Primaris bodies are monopose with separate heads & arms. The waist is a scalpeler's minefield.

[Aothaine]

I already have a plan for autocannon Mortis dreads and leviathan with stormcannons arrays

 

Works better on the Relic Leviathan Dreadnought.