Sisters speculation topic

[Sir_Gaea]

What would be the point of Knights under the Soritas tag? We can already take a Knight and give it a relic for 1CP under the Super-heavy Auxiliary detachment.

[Lord Grimskull]

While it wouldn't likely have acts of faith, when the codex drops we could assume Orders will have a chapter tactics equivalent.

 

A great point however that I hadn't considered.

[taikishi]

How would you feel if the Sororitas book allowed them to field knights under the AS tag. With the Order Famulous dealing with the Noble houses does it seem plausable?

 

The sisters already "borrow" a lot of tech from other imperial factions, would it be too much?

 

Ironic you bring this up. I've spent a good part of the morning, because it's been so slow at work, trying to come up a force of Knights, probably one of Sisters or Dark Angels or GK or Custodes, and maybe Guilliman to represent a Galactic Empire force with the Knights functioning as AT-STs, the Sisters/DA/GK/Custodes as Stormtroopers and the Emperor's Royal Guard and then Guilliman as Vader even though he'd be missing any psychic (re: Force) powers.

 

That said, am I reading correctly that the only way to get the Household traditions (and possibly stratagems) is to take 3 non-Armiger knights in a Super Heavy Detachment? If so, bleh, because I really don't want to spend 1500 points or more on Knights alone.

[dracpanzer]

You don't need three Questoris Knights or their big brothers to get strategems, you need them to get the CP bonus for the SH Detachment.

[Atrus]

Those of us with a knight or two might not complain.

 

Edit: I fail to see the point/benefit of it though. Nothing stopping peeps from having a super heavy auxiliary with a knight and just fluff bunny the rest.

[taikishi]

The only benefit I can think of is something most other armies have:

 

a supreme command detachment with a LoW. Of course, that still requires us to have more HQ choices (Unique and non-Unique) so that 3 of our maximum 5 HQs aren't tied up in one detachment with no other units but a LoW and an Elite.

[Drider]

On the off topic of knights, to go with my Crusader I picked up the Forgebane box a while back when that came out for the Armigers to try in comparison to dominions. I've picked up a Valiant, the renegade box and a pair of Helverins now too. Got it all on Saturday and the second thing I opened was the Valiant, the first thing was the stainless steel battle gauge, which I've been absolutely smashing, it's about 80% done at this point and I'll do a hobby update with it soonish. The way things are shaping up it looks like i'm going to be running a list with the valiant, two questors and a battalion of sisters. it's not optimal but it's a fair enough combination due to the knights need for CPs and our lack of need for them.

[Ezr91aeL]

I'm sorry but I see no sense in having Knighs with the Adepta Sororitas tag. Already in the lore many houses are bound with many Imperial organizations: Astra Militarum regiments, Astartes chapters, even orders of the Adepta Sororitas. Anyway none of these houses renounces to their indipendency. They have pride and traditions and they will never left them because they are KNIGHTS!
Also in the last years GW is more focused on making every (new) unit of an army and exclusive of that army: so if we will see a LoW with the Sororitas tag, well it will something that will be present only in the Sororitas Codex.

[Purifying Tempest]

A LoW like a... Living Saint?  I would say Celestine would need to be there, because she does... but then the HQ selection would almost literally be halved.

[Beams]

A LoW like a... Living Saint? I would say Celestine would need to be there, because she does... but then the HQ selection would almost literally be halved.

Does she though? She's arguably less powerful than Ghaz, and a bit better than Yarrick. She's much better in a no sisters army than she is in sisters.

 

Unless they plan on making her able to go to to toe with Papa Smurf both I. Terms of buffs and damage, she should stay where she is.

[Lord Grimskull]

Celestine has always sorta made me wonder if she's what a "good" demon might be. With all that resurrection, flying, and somehow just showing up across the galaxy and such.... She doesn't even have a bolter!

[Atrus]

Not going to get into it. Celestine is fine where she is.

 

Still eagerly awaiting another sister progress update from geedubs

[Purifying Tempest]

Living Saints could easily be LoW type models.  Just because they cannot fight a Primarch doesn't mean they need to be the cost of one.  Celestine is half the cost of Rowboat, and while she won't smash him into the dirt, she can fight him.  Celestine is also capable of taking over an entire game, a trait which many LoW models have in common.

 

I also think that Living Saints, in the fluff, are of a much greater significance to the Sororitas and even the Imperium than exclusively to one Order.  If Bloody Rose had a Canoness elevated to the status of Living Saint, she would be equally revered across any Order.

 

That gives access to goofy things like Imperium Super-Heavy Auxiliary detachments with a Living Saint, which is something they were previously (ab)using Celestine for.  And while it was silly, it was still showing respect to an important character in a largely disregarded line.  I'll take some recognition over total obscurity.

 

The HQ section needs to be looked at pretty hard.  Sororitas specific build-a-HQ doesn't scale nicely, at all.  A Canoness is a 45 point model.  What room did they leave between that and a 200 point Saint?  There are certain ranks they could fill out, and it would be nice to see a 100ish point non-named HQ with a few force multipliers to match not having a psychic phase and that price tag.

 

There's work to be done all around, but if they're going to really enforce the "rule of 3" business to the point that it becomes common-place, HQs are a place the Sororitas desperately need help in.  Maybe something like a Canoness Preceptor (different data slate, not upgrade to the Canoness slate) (and even that is a step down for a Canoness, isn't it?)?

[Lord Grimskull]

I could use some enlightening..

 

I've seen a fair bit of gripes about the rule of 3 and it's effect on Sisters but I don't get it.

 

The canonness is flexible +1" aura model that can be impressively cheap for what she can do.

 

You can take 3 for a brigade or two for a batallion and we can even take two battalion detachments with the addition of Celestine.

Heck! Even Celestine has a mechanism for being cheaper, which many big chunky lore characters don't.

 

Now, I will admit I was one of those guys enjoying the 5 canonness melee thrashing "squad" but it was still clearly a gimick.

 

Also, do I want more options? Sure, who doesn't.

 

I just don't see how things are drastically different now than before. It seems bizzare to me.

[radionausea]

Because in 2,000 point games you'll want more than 1 detachment, probably 3 (battalion, outrider, spearhead or another battalion).

 

You can just about do that now but you have to take special characters to do it.

[synthaside]

I would expect to see a slightly higher  80-120 point HQ unit  for the sisters, an Abbess or  "Cannoness Superior" 

I'd think her stat line would be similar a Tech-priest dominus, reversed reflecting that she's a " strong and tough old bird ;-)
but her eyes aren't quite what they were hence the BS 3+, rolls for shooting, cost reflecting her stats and equipment.

 

M6  WS2+  BS3+  S4 T4 W5 A5  Ld9  Sv 3+   Act of faith  , Shield of Faith , Rosarsarious, Muster the Righteous
( marine style chapter master aura of re-roll all failed hit rolls within 6)

Bolt Gun, Bolt Pistol and a Power Maul .
 

[ERJAK]

I could use some enlightening..

 

I've seen a fair bit of gripes about the rule of 3 and it's effect on Sisters but I don't get it.

 

The canonness is flexible +1" aura model that can be impressively cheap for what she can do.

 

You can take 3 for a brigade or two for a batallion and we can even take two battalion detachments with the addition of Celestine.

Heck! Even Celestine has a mechanism for being cheaper, which many big chunky lore characters don't.

 

Now, I will admit I was one of those guys enjoying the 5 canonness melee thrashing "squad" but it was still clearly a gimick.

 

Also, do I want more options? Sure, who doesn't.

 

I just don't see how things are drastically different now than before. It seems bizzare to me.

1 Canoness is okay, 2 is subpar, 3 is terrible. People aren't complaining about the Canoness and the rule of 3 because they want to take more Canonesses, they're complaining because having only 1 generic HQ makes certain detachment combinations impossible, especially considering when you factor in that Uriah Jacobus is easily 3 times more expensive than he should be. It's incredibly unfair.

 

The bigger issue with the canoness is the no souping within detachments thing. Pretty much the only SoB list that's seen success since the FAQ is Battalion with 3 dominion squads in repressors+outrider with 3 squads of seraphim+Allies.(Local success is irrelevant, variants on that list are the ones performing in very competitive settings). Being forced to take 2 Canonesses in those setups feels awful because the second one is just a 45pt 'Martyrdom' cast.

[ERJAK]

I would expect to see a slightly higher  80-120 point HQ unit  for the sisters, an Abbess or  "Cannoness Superior" 

 

I'd think her stat line would be similar a Tech-priest dominus, reversed reflecting that she's a " strong and tough old bird ;-)

but her eyes aren't quite what they were hence the BS 3+, rolls for shooting, cost reflecting her stats and equipment.

 

M6  WS2+  BS3+  S4 T4 W5 A5  Ld9  Sv 3+   Act of faith  , Shield of Faith , Rosarsarious, Muster the Righteous

( marine style chapter master aura of re-roll all failed hit rolls within 6)

Bolt Gun, Bolt Pistol and a Power Maul .

 

That's just a terrible version of a generic space marine captain. An SM captain has a BETTER statline, a reroll 1s aura, and way better equipment options for cheaper. That exact equipment setup would only be 78pts on an SM captain and he'd still be BS2.  Also, if space marines could take a 45pt character that gave them reroll 1s to hit, you'd never see a generic foot captain ever again.

 

If you want a sisters character to be worth 80-120 points increasing her statline isn't going to cut it. Generic combat characters, especially footslogging ones, see almost no use. If you want an SoB character to break 100pts she needs to be able to have some sort of unique capability. For SoB what that means is something extremely fast with good buffs(12" move +full rerolls+ built in powerweapon at a bare minimum) or the ability to generate Acts of Faith, or a combination of these abilities. Having a t4 s4 combat character doesn't really do anything unless you have access to strong offensive buffs and 3++ is the absolute minimum defense you need.

[Purifying Tempest]

100'ish point HQ?  Canoness with a Jump Pack :)

 

Granted, she'd only come in as like 60-75+ upgrades... but... still.  Give her a power sword (Blade of Admonition) and an inferno pistol and go to work.

 

Getting an Abbess or Prioress or something would be great.  Maybe a Canoness with a touch better statline merged with like an Imagifier/Dialogus/Hospitaler/whatever.

 

The rule of 3 really doesn't hurt Sisters, exactly.  What it does hurt is army selection when scaling up to 2000 points and you've filled up on the good units (Dominions and Seraphim) or you bought 40 Stormbolters to spam Stormbolter Dominions in Repressors or something.  After awhile, though, you do have to start making sub-optimal choices with organization and units, though, purely due to how thin the unit selection is.

 

I don't think it hurt Sisters nearly as much as other armies (Dark Reapers, Hive Tyrants, Berserkers, whatever other flavor of spam would be dominating now (Lascannon Havocs vs Knights?)), but it can rear its head unexpectedly.

[Lord Grimskull]

Hey guys, I want to thank you for your input and kind of curtail this discussion so it doesn't get off topic (I can feel the eyes of Aqui on me). Very interesting to get the different opinions, you rock as always!

[Aqui]

:lol: I'm just as curious as to what the future holds for us too :) Its appreciated that this topic hasn't strayed off target (too much). It's both exciting and frustrating not knowing what we will see.

[Purifying Tempest]

Not much off of topic at all.  And I think the "rule of 3" will definitely be something we will be considering even more as the codex approaches.

 

I know we're getting a new line and all, but I don't think that line will be very deep.  I would hope we could get some more tactical decisions to do with our FOC slots, and a lot of that can be taken care of by fixing things like Celestians, Repentia, and our Heavy Support (that aren't Retributors).  But I don't expect to see a whole lot of "new selections", at least not up front.  I expect something on the scale of Grey Knights, a codex where it is: let's see how many ways we can field Psycannons, Psilencers, and Incinerators!  A few aberrations here and there, but a very central theme through their codex like the boltgun, flamer, and melta is to ours.

 

The army is pretty good in the Fast Attack slot.  Celestians feel just... awkward.  Exorcists need a little love somehow.  Pentitent Engines need to figure out whose side their on.  I do not envy the writers, here.  :)  They have a tough nut ahead of them, and not a lot of space to get things right in.

[Servant of Dante]

I'm sure there will be things I like and things I don't like. I mean, at the end of the day having a hardback codex that says Adepta Sororitas or Adeptus Ministorum on the cover will be enough to make me very happy for a long time :P

 

(even though I'm sure the fluff (based on the direction of Celestine) will keep me in salt for years to come :D )

[Atrus]

All Exorcists need (imo) is Dd6. Be happy to pay their original pts for it.

 

But yes, weiters and modelers have a big job ahead of them but i think at the end of it we'll have a product that we're more excited and happy with than we have gripes.

[Lucerne]

Terrible writing can- mostly- be worked around. Unless they screw up on the level of Necrons, Sisters should be fine.

 

But bad models, especially newly made ones? Those are a pitfall GW has thankfully dodged.