B&C Knights FAQ: For Scions of House Confused

[Stray]

Noble Scions! Throne Mechanicum giving you flashbacks? Binary Cant starting to induce headaches? Still wondering what that giant red button in the middle of your Crusaders console does?

 

We're here to help!

 

This thread is designed to serve as an in-house, FAQ following the release of the Imperial Knights codex. It is intended to be a 'living document' for all of the B&C community to pose, and answer, questions relating to Knights. As a question is asked and answered, I will edit the initial post to include it, and the agreed upon answer. This way (hopefully) the mighty hive-mind present on the board is able to effectively use it's collective intellect to assist the rest of the community.

 

 

 

Q: How do Knight Lances work?

 

A: In a Battle-forged Army, any Super Heavy Detachment where all units have the keyword IMPERIAL KNIGHTS, becomes a Knight Lance. Vehicles with this keyword currently consist of all QUESTORUS, ARMIGER, CERASTUS, ACASTUS or DOMINUS class Knights.

 

When a Detachment becomes a Lance, you may pick a single vehicle of any type within the lance to become a Character and gain the CHARACTER Keyword. In addition, all Knights within the detachment gain access to your choice of Household Traditions. It should be noted that every Knight within the Lance must have the same Tradition.

 

As long as a Knight Lance contains at least one unit with the TITANIC keyword, the Lance detachment generates 3 CP. If the Lance contains at least 3 units with the TITANIC keyword, it instead generates 6CP.

 

There exist some caveats and limitations to the above however, and they are as follows:

 

• FREEBLADES may be included in a Lance, but never themselves benefit from Household Traditions. In addition, FREEBLADES may not carry a HOUSEHOLD keyword, so cannot, for example, be the target of household specific Stratagems.
• Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments may NOT become Lances, and the Knight(s) in them may not therefore benefit from Household Traditions. In addition, they do NOT generate CP.

 

 

Q: What about Forge World Knights? Cerastus and Acastus Class?

 

A: As of 22/06/2018, the Forge World Knights are fully compatible with Lance, Stratagem and other keyword requirements from Codex: Imperial Knights. See the offical FAQ for specific wording. 

 

 

 

Q: What is the best Knight Weapon for X, Y, Z?

 

A: ​'Best' is a really relative term that can't typically account for any of the millions of variables that can happen within a game. However, below is a very basic list of 'average' weapon performance (not counting any buffs from traits etc) against a variety of targets:

 

http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss78/tcgfade0ut/wep%201_zpsejhwgd88.png

http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss78/tcgfade0ut/wep%202_zpsk5vtqhuk.png

http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss78/tcgfade0ut/wep%203_zpskl07eqt9.png

 

 

 

Q: If I take a Knight in a Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment, can I pay the CP to use the stratagems that allows me to make a Knight a CHARACTER and take a relic or warlord trait?

 

A: Yes. Knights in Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments can be the target of both the EXALTED COURT and HEIRLOOMS OF THE HOUSEHOLD stratagems as normal. Note that Knights in a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment may still never benefit from a Household Tradition. RAW, they should though be able to take household specific Warlord Traits and Relics, as nothing appears to prevent the Knight(s) from being given a Household KEYWORD.

 

 

 

Q:  If a model using heroic intervention comes into contact with a Knight with a Gauntlet, can the Knight target the model with the DEATH GRIP Stratagem even if he has not declared a charge against it?

 

A: Yes. RAW, there are two elements which constitute requirements to use Death Grip:

 

1. The Knight must have fought.
2. The Knight must choose an enemy unit within 1", that consists of a single model, to be the target of Death Grip.

 

There's nothing to say that the Knight must have charged, only that he must have fought. It also states nowhere that the Knight must use Death Grip on the unit he had been fighting. So a character that has HI'd into combat, would be at risk if in range.

 

It should be noted that there is some debate about the targeting requirements for Death Grip. As such, it is advisable to always declare a charge against all targets you wish to potentially involve in combat, including any that you intend to target with Death Grip after your standard attacks are complete.

 

 

 

Q:  Firestorm Protocols - If I declare all my shots into two targets and after destroying the closest target, I still having my declared shots available for the second target, do I get the benefit of the Firestorm Protocols Tradition against the second target?

 

A: No. Unfortunately Firestorm Protocols only triggers against the initial 'closest target' which the firing unit has shot at. You cannot sequentially destroy multiple units and preserve the bonus throughout the firing units shooting action.

 

 

 

Q: House Raven's 'Relentless Advance' - The tradition causes all Heavy weapons to be treated as Assault weapons when a unit Advances, and for Assault weapons to not suffer penalties to hit for Advancing. Do Heavy weapons acting as Assault weapons due to the tradition, still suffer the penalty to hit?

 

A: No. The Tradition causes both Heavy weapons and Assault weapons to completely ignore the penalty to hit rolls for Advancing. 

[Vel'Cona]

[Clingy]

(Stands up and claps with joyful tear creeping out of his eye)

 

Bravo sir, bravo!

[Clingy]

Just realised my question is best placed in here

 

Pasted for relevance

 

Daft question but I’m a daft person. I’m about to play a game with a solo knight. What is it I have to do to get warlord trait and relic on it?

 

Can anyone shed light on this for me. Do I burn 2CP by using exalted court and heirlooms of the household?

 

That sound right?

[Stray]

Just realised my question is best placed in here

 

Pasted for relevance

 

Daft question but I’m a daft person. I’m about to play a game with a solo knight. What is it I have to do to get warlord trait and relic on it?

 

Can anyone shed light on this for me. Do I burn 2CP by using exalted court and heirlooms of the household?

 

That sound right?

 

Yup, exactly right buddy.

 

You can use both the Warlord Trait, and Relic Strats on a solo Knight in a Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, thus giving it the benefits of being a Character, and the selected trait / relic.

 

Note though, that you still cannot ever get a Household tradition if you're in a SHAD. I don't see any reason why you can't take Household specific relics or warlord traits however, as nothing prevents you from having a Household Keyword on that Knight. 

[Clingy]

Thanks. Right so I can take a house Tanaris Gallant and have all the fun I want with stratagems....but that native 6+ FNP is not allowed?

[Stray]

Thanks. Right so I can take a house Tanaris Gallant and have all the fun I want with stratagems....but that native 6+ FNP is not allowed?

 

Exactly right Clingy.

 

FAQ updated to reflect your Q & A.

[Clingy]

Cheers champ.

 

Wish me luck!

[Vel'Cona]

Thanks. Right so I can take a house Tanaris Gallant and have all the fun I want with stratagems....but that native 6+ FNP is not allowed?

 

Could also try him as a Freeblade and just use generic Relics/Strategems.  Might be more bonuses there if you don't mind gambling a bit on the Burdens table.

[Charlo]

Gallant Paragon Gauntlet.

 

Now those are numbers I like to see!

[Stray]

They're insane aren't they?

 

Look at the stomps too! Out does traitors pyre against a fair few things. Now, those are numbers in a vacuum, but still... Gallants buddy. so, so good.

 

When you think those are pre-buffs, and you could add at least two more attacks too... not to mention Death Grip.

[Clingy]

Today the omnissiah did not look fondly upon his children of the cog.

 

 

He got anihliated by a great unclean one. The -3 to hit shafted him.

[Stray]

Could you have burned the wrong incense Clingy? I'm certain the Omnissiah likes the Nepeta cataria plant best as an offering. You should totally keep large amounts of that around...

[Clingy]

It was indeed a possibility. Logical analysis however lead me to conclude that during the rights of cleansing I used an incorrect cant

 

‘1000100001000100’

 

I should have canted ‘1000100001000101’

[point_Zer0]

 

Q: What about Forge World Knights? Cerastus and Acastus Class?

 

A: RAW, Cerastus and Acastus class Knights do NOT count toward the requirements for a Knight Lance. As such, they gain no benefit from the Lance or Household Rules. They MAY however become Freeblades.

It has been stated that this is not intended, and that we should expect the forthcoming FAQ to allow any Forge World Knights to join Lances as normal (Source: Codex Author Robin Cruddich during a recent interview on Warhammer TV).

 

Is it really so? As i understood the rulebook, you do not receive +3cp for the knight lance, but you still can use household rules (only QUESTOR IMPERIALIS ones though)

 

 

However, the Command Benefit of each

Imperial Knights Super-heavy Detachment

is changed to ‘None’ unless it contains any

combination of at least three QUESTORIS

CLASS and/or DOMINUS CLASS units.

Command benefit are those 3 command points, aren' they?

[Stray]

 

 

Q: What about Forge World Knights? Cerastus and Acastus Class?

 

A: RAW, Cerastus and Acastus class Knights do NOT count toward the requirements for a Knight Lance. As such, they gain no benefit from the Lance or Household Rules. They MAY however become Freeblades.

It has been stated that this is not intended, and that we should expect the forthcoming FAQ to allow any Forge World Knights to join Lances as normal (Source: Codex Author Robin Cruddich during a recent interview on Warhammer TV).

 

Is it really so? As i understood the rulebook, you do not receive +3cp for the knight lance, but you still can use household rules (only QUESTOR IMPERIALIS ones though)

 

 

However, the Command Benefit of each

Imperial Knights Super-heavy Detachment

is changed to ‘None’ unless it contains any

combination of at least three QUESTORIS

CLASS and/or DOMINUS CLASS units.

Command benefit are those 3 command points, aren' they?

 

 

Thanks Point, this caused me to look again at what the requirements were - which was quite useful (This is exactly what we hoped for here, as with all of us adding to the FAQ's, we can reach the right answers far easier).

 

So, the issue with the FW Knights right now is that they lack the specific keyword IMPERIAL KNIGHTS, this is the keyword that a unit needs to become part of a Lance. So RAW, they don't technically count as we stated.

 

That said... I'd ignore this requirement, and would advise everyone to just play them as if they were any other type of Knight. We've been assured that we they should in fact be legal for Lances, and that the FAQ will amend them to allow them RAW.

 

I *think* you can get around this for now if you need to, by using the Freeblade Keyword with them. I notice that Battlescribe seems to require that a FW Knight be listed as a Freeblade also to make it legal in a detachment - presumably for this reason.

[LucidNinja]

Excellent write up! 1 suggestion, change the wording on the lance caveat "A lance only generates CP if it contains at least 3 questoris/dominus (big) knights"

Just how it is currently written armigers stop CP completely.

Great job

[fedratsailor]

looked at the lance requirements.  you have to have either 3 questoris and or dominus to qualify for 3 CP. doesn't negate taking any amiger in the same detachtment. just states those classes for the CP bonus.

[Gaz1858]

Great write up. I had a post with much the same in a topic and think it got lost in all the posts lol.

 

• A Lance does not generate CP if it contains ARMIGER class Knights.​​

   

Much like fedratsailor has said this should read A Lance only generates CP if you have three Dominus or Questoris Class Knights in it or LucidNinja's suggestion above

 

• Freeblades may be included in a Lance, but never themselves benefit from Household Traditions.

   

For clarity this should read Freeblades are never given a Household rather than dont benefit from the Traits. Not benefitting from the traits is more an Aux Super HEavy Det thing

 

: Yes. Knights in Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments can be the target of both the EXALTED COURT and HEIRLOOMS OF THE HOUSEHOLD stratagems as normal. Note that Knights in a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment may still never benefit from a Household Tradition. RAW, they should though be able to take household specific Warlord Traits and Relics, as nothing appears to prevent the Knight(s) from being given a Household KEYWORD.

 

 

Totally correct. All IKnights must be given a Household. This has to be a Questor Imperialis Household, a Questor Mechanicus Household or Freeblade

 

Cheers

[Stray]

Hmm, I'm going to disagree here.

 

I think it's simpler to say 'if you take Armigers in a lance, you get no CP' - as this is one variable - than to say 'a Lance must contain three dominus or questorus class Knights' - two variables.

 

Also, the way that's worded, implys that you must have either three dominus, OR three questorus class Knights, you see?

 

The other point for me is redundancy, if we state 'to generate CP, a lance must contain any combination of QUESTORUS or DOMINUS class Knights', we're in danger of causing artificial confusion if (or in this case almost certain when), CERASTUS and ACASTUS class Knights are added to this list. Especially as most people are playing with them included in the allowable classes anyway?

 

I think as long as the sole variable that cancels CP generation is the presence of an Armiger, it's just the simplest way to word things. I know that's not strictly how the Codex phrases it, but it's the codex that has caused confusion, so in this case, I think cutting to the chase and calling out the cause is just that much easier for folks.

 

I think it's a good idea to amend the writing around FREEBLADES though. While I think it's right to call out the fact that they never get a tradition, we should mention that they cannot also hold a <HOUSEHOLD> Keyword also - good shout.

[Zogash]

That is just factually incorrect, though. A Lance generates CP as long as "it contains any combination of at least three QUESTORIS CLASS and/or DOMINUS CLASS units". A Lance can, however, have up to five units, which means that a Lance of three "big" Knights and up to two units of Armigers would still fulfill all the requirements for CP generation.

[Stray]

That is just factually incorrect, though. A Lance generates CP as long as "it contains any combination of at least three QUESTORIS CLASS and/or DOMINUS CLASS units". A Lance can, however, have up to five units, which means that a Lance of three "big" Knights and up to two units of Armigers would still fulfill all the requirements for CP generation.

 

Right. Yeah, this is my bad - we're so used to talking about Lances and SHD's as being a three model deal, I'd honestly forgotten that you could take up to five in one - thank you for actually pointing that out!

 

I'll change the FAQ accordingly:

 

 

• A Lance ONLY generates Command Points (CP) if it contains a minimum of three QUESTORUS or DOMINUS class Knights (in any combination).​​

 

Sound good?

[Zogash]

Sound good?

Yup! :-)

[Clingy]

Do we have an eta on this faq?

[Stray]

Do we have an eta on this faq?

 

I think GW say they aim to deliver a Codex FAQ within a month of a Codex's release? They seem to be hitting around that kinda time so far, so shouldn't be more than a few weeks.