BLACK BLΠFLY Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Corax prolly fled to return to the remnants of his legion for safeguarding them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Well, yes, but the two aren't mutually exclusive. Had Corvus not made that escape he'd almost certainly have fallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I wouldn't say that at all - he is THE master of stealth after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Enough so to escape when he's in the middle of a battlefield, surrounded by enemies? I'm dubious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 He stood in plain sight and no one saw him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Then why didn't he do that in the aftermath when he was charging at Iron Warriors? He had Curze in contact with him and the Word Bearers converging on him. Aside from anything else, wraith-slipping has been established to not work on machines, so auto-senses would pick him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I forget which novel it is but it disproves everything you have said. - edit - https://www.blacklibrary.com/series/the-horus-heresy/deliverance-lost-ebook.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 In the end, he was surrounded by two Primarchs and their Legions. On top of that, was his own Legion under attack, as well. It was a tactical retreat in order to continue the fight on another day and to save as much of his sons as possible. There was no reason to continue the fight. He would've finished off Lorgar easily but fighting for your life and that of your sons for hours and dealing with another Primarch takes its toll. Thus, he avoided fighting Curze. Still curious though who would win in a Corax vs. Curze fight. It would heavily depend on which version of Curze participates. The A D B Curze/ Nighthaunter, who was plagued by his visions or the later "I can see/ predict every move you'll make" Curze. Seemed like both of them were able to withdrew and meld with shadows. Don't think that there were much possibilities on the Istvaan 5 wastes. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I forget which novel it is but it disproves everything you have said. - edit - https://www.blacklibrary.com/series/the-horus-heresy/deliverance-lost-ebook.html I am not spending £10 on Gav Thorpe's prose. Please quote me the sections that prove he could a) evade an army which was aware of him and looking at him at the moment he wraith-slipped and b- fool machines with a psychic power which functions by screwing with an opponent's perceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagoth Ur Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I possess the story Black Orange linked to and it states nothing of such nature. It only states that Corax can erase himself from other individuals perception if they were not aware of him actively in the first place. He cannot simply pull a Solid Snake and make everyone on the battlefield unaware of him, because they were very aware of him in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I never said he can disappear before your eyes into thin air. I guess when you’re losing argument try to change what the other person said - very immature imo. And another thing blunty don’t ever tell me what to do because I won’t just on principle alone. Try being polite and nicely asking next time . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roomsky Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Hmm, much as I would like to say most non-lethal primarch bouts are a poor narrative choice, they've often been startlingly well-handled. The obviously suit the narrative and offer character development, and the worst are asanine because they're obviously being used for fanservice. Here's a few personal highlights from both ends: The Good: Rogal vs Alpharius I thought French handled this one excellently. It was just mundane enough to keep the danger real, all while maintaining that usual primarch larger-than-life feel. The ending pushes it over the edge into one of my absolute favorites. Lion vs Curze (All of ADB's) Somehow these figures clash like, 3 times under ADB's pen, and each time it feels so many leagues beyond what a normal marine can do. The speed at which things occur is represented very well, as is the force of the battles such as when Curze breaks most of the bones in Corswain's body. Brevity used to great effect. The Bad: Vulkan vs Curze (Kyme) How did this happen. Curze killed Vulkan with tableware earlier this very novel, and now an even weaker (naked) Vulkan can lay the smackdown on an armed and armored Curze? At least he'd been regenerating for a while in UE. No thank you. Sangy v Curze Not bad per se. It certainly gave some incite into their views on each other. Curze is hurt by being terribly overused, and this seems the least necessary as far as the parent book's narrative is concerned. I give Abnett a pass because he made Curze every bit as threatening (and inhuman) as he should be, even if I thought he went to far with his precognition. Here it just seems cheap, and excuse to have the two of them stalemate and make up a "fun" scenario. Again, not bad, but wholly unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Jaghatai vs Mortarion gets my vote, whatever Chris touches has been gold for me so far and his Primarchs/characters are fantastic. He almost made me like Eidolon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I never said he can disappear before your eyes into thin air. I guess when you’re losing argument try to change what the other person said - very immature imo. And another thing blunty don’t ever tell me what to do because I won’t just on principle alone. Try being polite and nicely asking next time . That was phrased as a request. I was asking how exactly the book, in contrast to another Thorpe story about Corvus and what I'd gleaned about the ability from the wikis, demonstrated that I was totally wrong about the extent of the Raven's abilities. Disappearing was implicit in that statement, because there was really no other way for Corvus to get out of that situation other than to fire up the jump pack, which you seemed to be arguing wasn't his only option because of his mastery of stealth. The FW book Massacre goes further, incidentally, and says that it was only by good fortune that Corvus wasn't lost buying his sons' escape. Presumably down to Curze not immediately piling in with his own claws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 For whatever reason Curze relaxed his grip and that was the break Corax was waiting for if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 For whatever reason Curze relaxed his grip and that was the break Corax was waiting for if I remember correctly. Spending time calling Lorgar a dick and he was getting far too into it Also the prose suggest Corax and Curze had been duking it out before this point elsewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Corax vs Night Haunter in First Heretic Dorn vs Alpharius in Praetorian of Dorn Guilliman vs Angron and Lorgar in Betrayer It’s always difficult to make a fight a believable, but those three were really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Sangy v Curze Not bad per se. It certainly gave some incite into their views on each other. Curze is hurt by being terribly overused, and this seems the least necessary as far as the parent book's narrative is concerned. I give Abnett a pass because he made Curze every bit as threatening (and inhuman) as he should be, even if I thought he went to far with his precognition. Here it just seems cheap, and excuse to have the two of them stalemate and make up a "fun" scenario. Again, not bad, but wholly unnecessary. I believe this was written by Guy Haley in Pharos...or Thorpe in Angels of Caliban (I get all the Imperium Secundus arc novels blurred together). Positive it was not Abnett's Unremembered Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roomsky Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Sangy v Curze Not bad per se. It certainly gave some incite into their views on each other. Curze is hurt by being terribly overused, and this seems the least necessary as far as the parent book's narrative is concerned. I give Abnett a pass because he made Curze every bit as threatening (and inhuman) as he should be, even if I thought he went to far with his precognition. Here it just seems cheap, and excuse to have the two of them stalemate and make up a "fun" scenario. Again, not bad, but wholly unnecessary. I believe this was written by Guy Haley in Pharos...or Thorpe in Angels of Caliban (I get all the Imperium Secundus arc novels blurred together). Positive it was not Abnett's Unremembered Empire. Aye, it was Haley in Pharos. My point is that I didn't mind when Abnett gave him over-the-top precognition, because a ) it gave Curze back his teeth after VL, and b ) the whole book was a fun look at Curze in his element, it helped portray him as a force of nature, a beast of shadows rather than a skinny guy in boney armor. I did, however, mind it when Haley carried the trend because it cheapens every scene he's involved in. Curze's victories and defeats are now purely at the whims of the writer. Should he stalemate Sangy, their matching only because of their mutual precognition? Sure. Shall he then lose to the Lion, because reasons? Sure. Not a fan at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share Posted June 24, 2018 Corax vs. Curze really wasn't a "fight"...at most, it was a primarch "confrontation" Curze held Corax's wrist, they exchanged some words, and then Corax broke free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Iirc at the start of deliverance lost, corax reckons he could have killed curze as well as finishing off lorgar, but that would have almost guaranteed his own death. He also thought he had a slim shot at angron in the same scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 It's possible, but yes, he'd have been dragged down by the other Gal Vorbak after killing Curze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 The only time I remember Corax mentioning Angron is in the short Raven's Flight, where he straight up states he doesn't stand a chance against Angron. Adding only Sanguinius and Horus could hope to beat Angron. Lorgar says something similar in Betrayer (or maybe First Heretic). As I recall, both Curze and Corax look back at the confrontation on Istvaan with the notion they would have beat the other if it came down to it. It's up to the reader to decide who they want to believe, or the two are close enough that it really could have gone either way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I give it to Corax . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Primarch fights, the only time that characters muttering "I coulda taken him. Just you guys watch, next time I'll wipe the floor with him" under their breath is taken as gospel, rather than the -talking it so often is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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