Leman Russ.. Returning as a Daemon Primarch?

[BloodWolves]

To be honest.. I just asked because I stumbled upon the post. I didnt know it was gonna cause this much rage. I was just reflecting on one of my most favorite quotes:

"Well, to each his own. I chose my path, you chose the way of the hero. And they found you amusing for a while, the people of this city. But the one thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail, fall, die trying. In spite of everything you've done for them, eventually they will hate you. Why bother?"

- Green Goblin

 

Im sorry this topic has ruffled so much... fur. I do like what you had to said on the part of being the Devil's Advocate. Thanks for not just shutting down everything.

[Ranulf]

Ranulf, let's play devil's advocate again then, if you are willing to believe that Russ could have been turned to chaos due to his time in the warp, why do you believe that a Wulfen Russ would only be because of a marketing department whim?  It would make just as much sense that his inner nature/curse would come out due to his time in the warp?

 

I never said that Wulfen Russ was only a possibility because of a marketing department whim, it was a glib statement having a dig at how the 40K narrative is often driven heavily by marketing - something that could force the writers to come up with something that tests well with focus groups then gets shoehorned into the fiction after the fact. (ie. Primaris marines) 

 

Of course, Wulfen Russ is a bad example to apply the previous theory to and has more to do with my desire to see a non-wulfen Russ release than anything else. There's a very strong case to be made that Russ could return as a Wulfen. There's plenty of grounding in the established fiction for such a thing to happen given the nature of Russ's unique genome, the influence of the Warp, the machinations of Magnus and the passage of time. (though the question of warp-time vs real-time still hangs) 

 

One could also argue that as the curse of the Wulfen stems from the instability of the Canis Helix when used as genetic catalyst to trigger the physical transformation of recruits, it should only affect Astartes rather than the Primarch himself from whose genome the Canis Helix is derived. Given that instability levels dropped considerably once Russ was reunited with the Legion during the crusade, one might presume that Russ simply is what he is - a Primarch with a stable genetic makeup that includes some interesting inclusions that define him as unique creation but can manifest in mutations when used in the creation of his sons.

 

But as I've previously stated, that's the point of discussion - it's interesting to see the differing viewpoints and it kills time while we wait for the Codex/Russ release to drop.

 

-Ran

[Bulwyf]

There's nothing wrong with posting this since it was a floating rumor months back. No need to apologize for posting it. What you are seeing is fans reacting to someone we've waited a long time for in terms of a playable model coming out as a traitor instead of the loyal son he's always been.

[TiguriusX]

Never apologize for honest discussion.  Trolling SW and teasing we will fall to chaos is bad but I don't think you are doing that haha

[Jackalwolf]

WILL. FIGHT. NAKED.

[Guest]

There's nothing wrong with posting this since it was a floating rumor months back. No need to apologize for posting it. What you are seeing is fans reacting to someone we've waited a long time for in terms of a playable model coming out as a traitor instead of the loyal son he's always been.

Unfortunately as I've said before, the last 3 codexs that have taken forever to get out are almost at fanatics levels as all 3 expect big releases. It is to be expected, and I fear if GW doesn't do enough to sate their hunger (especially SW & Ork players) there is going to be alot of bitterness. Personally I have set my expectations to a narrative/story and the basic Primaris upgrade others got, and at most a new Primaris.

[Dantay VI]

To be honest it has dragged on for so long, I hardly care anymore....

[Slave to Darkness]

WILL. FIGHT. NAKED.

Slaanesh sent me to fight you. *strips off and greases up with some chicken skin.*

[Karack Blackstone]

 

WILL. FIGHT. NAKED.

Slaanesh sent me to fight you. *strips off and greases up with some chicken skin.*

 

 

*Readies the Flamer.*

 

"I love the smell of burnt cultist in the morning."

 

*Fwoosh!*

 

Edit:

 

I kid, I kid. I do at this point wish there were flaming Chainswords. I expect the Black Templars and Sisters of Battle would love the idea. I might need to get on that!

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I'm sure you could get the salamanders on board as well

[Slan Drakkos]

 

WILL. FIGHT. NAKED.

Slaanesh sent me to fight you. *strips off and greases up with some chicken skin.*

You're doing the one true God's work.

I'm sure you could get the salamanders on board as well

what makes you think that we'd want to take time off from pimping our rides and wargear?

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

 

WILL. FIGHT. NAKED.

Slaanesh sent me to fight you. *strips off and greases up with some chicken skin.*

You're doing the one true God's work.

I'm sure you could get the salamanders on board as well

what makes you think that we'd want to take time off from pimping our rides and wargear?

 

 

Uhm, flaming and barbequing enemies of mankind beats pimping and smithing? Just saying.

 

Sigh, let the derailment commence.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

How are flaming chainswords not pimped wargear?

[Sete]

 

WILL. FIGHT. NAKED.

Slaanesh sent me to fight you. *strips off and greases up with some chicken skin.*

Sigh... * Unzips...

[Guest]

 

 

WILL. FIGHT. NAKED.

Slaanesh sent me to fight you. *strips off and greases up with some chicken skin.*

Sigh... * Unzips...

Black Templar succumbs to Slaanesh. You are a dissapointment to Dorn, someone call Grimaldus to deal with this heretic.

[Slave to Darkness]

 

 

 

WILL. FIGHT. NAKED.

Slaanesh sent me to fight you. *strips off and greases up with some chicken skin.*

Sigh... * Unzips...

Black Templar succumbs to Slaanesh. You are a dissapointment to Dorn, someone call Grimaldus to deal with this heretic.

Ooo Ima get a paddlin??

[Dantay VI]

Only if Firepoer gets involved, he is the holder of the Paddleum Maximus, is he not?

[Slave to Darkness]

Only if Firepoer gets involved, he is the holder of the Paddleum Maximus, is he not?

Sgt Kabuki Cultist is pleased.

 

 

Dragging this wreck back on track, I hope GW avoid Wulfen/Altered Beast Russ. Theres no need and that would be another nail in the coffin of good fluff. Not like I expect them to write anything decent these days.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

Only if Firepoer gets involved, he is the holder of the Paddleum Maximus, is he not?

Sgt Kabuki Cultist is pleased.

 

 

Dragging this wreck back on track, I hope GW avoid Wulfen/Altered Beast Russ. Theres no need and that would be another nail in the coffin of good fluff. Not like I expect them to write anything decent these days.

 

 

The first sane comment from you thus far, one I heartily agree with. However, I think a good chunk of space Wolves fans/players like the idea of a Wulfen Russ, so the best I'm hoping for is a dual kit, satisfy both the pro furry and anti furry camps. (of which I'm part of the anti-furry camp).

[lonewolf81]

Whats wrong with the wulfen aspect of the codex guys? I love it , it makes us different from other space marines. I would love a stratagem that can wulfenize a custom HQ like the  death company keyword strat , giving him extra abilities for CPs . Also dual form Russ , yes please. I get that a lot of people are fed up with the wolf mcwolfson thing but the wulfen aspect provides a darker side to the SW codex which is cool in my opinion.

 

PS : i always took the mark of the wulfen upgrade in 5th edition, i hope it is brought back as a stratagem or as squad upgrade like i said above :)

[Leif Bearclaw]

Whats wrong with the wulfen aspect of the codex guys? I love it , it makes us different from other space marines.

Well personally, everything. They represent the antithesis of what drew me to the SWs, the cool, norse/celtic themed Space Marines. Not a bunch of fantasy monsters rocking around what's still meant to be a SciFi army/setting.

 

The models (apart from some of their gear, like the Mjollnir-style Thunder Hammers) are just, bad. Especially the derpy Wolf Paws. They don't look like they belong in a Space Marine army.

 

Thematically? Wulfen are failures. They did not master the the beast, and instead it conquered them. Which is especially why Wulfen Russ (ignoring the 'does he even have the Canis Helix' question) is a terrible idea. I'm sick enough of Russ being a major butt monkey in the HH, we don't need to top it off with his 40k incarnation being a fundamental failure.

 

It was better in the old 13th Co (and even then, the actual Wulfen were the least interesting bit of their fluff), where it wasn't clear whether the Wulfen-ising was temporary, the men had been through the mother of all extenuating circumstances (fighting in Hell for 10k years), they were already the closest to the beast (the old 13th all bearing the Mark of the Wulfen, those who had come closest to devolving during recruitment), there was the speculation that the full manifestation of the Wulfen curse in mature Marines was a defensive response to excessive Warp exposure and they looked right. Like feral, ramshackle, devolved Marines, with none of the custom gear we see in the modern incarnation.

 

Do they make us different? One could argue we were already plenty different from other Marines, with our unique spins on pretty much all the SM infantry types. When Wulfen arrived with Warzone Fenris, a bunch of the external complaints were 'the Wolves have just been given better Death Company'. And I can kinda see the point. Both start out as Marines, are victims of a curse/flaw/unique quirk of their gene-seed, and devolve, losing their mental faculties, into berserk assault troops. Where's the uniqueness (apart from aesthetics)?

 

 

I get that a lot of people are fed up with the wolf mcwolfson thing but the wulfen aspect provides a darker side to the SW codex which is cool in my opinion.

See, I just wouldn't say that at all. the Wulfen stuff has provided us with a more cartoony side. The darkest the SWs have been is the Great Crusade era VI Legion, which had no Wulfen (ignoring for a moment the weird HH retcons about the origins of the Wulfen).

[lonewolf81]

I get your point but without wulfen, thunderwolves and fen wolves, we are yet another version of vanila marines. The cartoony style you mention is everywhere in the 40k universe ( marines with chainswords charging against super advanced ranged weapons , totally realistic :) ) I guess i am at the wolf side of things :)

[Slave to Darkness]

I dont mind Wolfywolves. I just dont use them.

 

But Wulfen Russ... Nah. Theres no reason for him to Wolf out, he lacks the (Canis Helix?) so its technically impossable. But I wouldnt put it past GW to balls up their own fluff for a few extra quid.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I don't feel like the wilden are failures thematically. They were space wolves caught in the warp. I think the "curse" is what kept them from falling to chaos. But they aren't like a failed aspirant who goes feral they are still intelligent if different space wolves.

[Gherrick]

Wulfen are partial failures, in as they still have some humanity left.

 

The wolf theme was my main draw, and less the norse/Celtic aspects, so I guess if GW can keep both it would be a total win. I like both TWC and fen wolves, and don't share the view that they are "too much fantasy". Hell, we would need to remove all shoulderpads just to get *that* effort underway...