Kill Team Tactica: Heretic Astartes

[Cheex]

Am guessing it’s because you’re taking sniper on the plasma gun to reroll those 1s when overcharged.

Unless you want your other Gunner to have a flamer and Demolitions...

 

Plus, with all the negative hit modifiers in this game, I wouldn't want to risk overcharging my plasma most of the time anyway.

[Brother Antio]

 

 

Am guessing it’s because you’re taking sniper on the plasma gun to reroll those 1s when overcharged.

Unless you want your other Gunner to have a flamer and Demolitions...

 

Plus, with all the negative hit modifiers in this game, I wouldn't want to risk overcharging my plasma most of the time anyway.

Overcharging only kills you on a natural roll of a 1. But yes, flamer with demo might be a good one to go for.

[Midnight Brotherhood]

I've found close combat cultists to be surprisingly cheap and effective, using advance to run from cover to cover up the board and performing out of line of sight charges. Once they get in CC they seem not bad at all as there is very little modifiers to hit rolls in CC, and they can take a hit or two and not go down like a wet tissue.

 

Been thinking of running a combat spec Cultist Champion in a campaign as he would get 4 attacks straight off the bat and maybe 5 further down the combat tree, it's just whether he's worth that precious specialist slot.

 

Leadership seems to be a much bigger deal in this game so I'm enjoying the icon of vengeance.

 

The veteran specialism seems to fall by the wayside a little, not really sure what to take that one on or instead of. Heavy, sniper and demo or zealot seem to be my go tos at the moment.

 

I hope the CSM expansions brings good tactics as we only get 4 faction tactics? Adeptus Astartes, Death guard, ztbousand Sons and other armies get 6 faction tactics...

[Cheex]

 

 

Am guessing it’s because you’re taking sniper on the plasma gun to reroll those 1s when overcharged.

Unless you want your other Gunner to have a flamer and Demolitions...

 

Plus, with all the negative hit modifiers in this game, I wouldn't want to risk overcharging my plasma most of the time anyway.

Overcharging only kills you on a natural roll of a 1. But yes, flamer with demo might be a good one to go for.

 

Ah, right you are. That's what I get for skimming over the weapons profiles.

[Brother Antio]

It’s ok, it’s surprising the amount of times I’ve read people write that they don’t want to take plasma because of all the negatives to hit. Hopefully everyone keeps thinking that way until I have to play them!

[Iron_Within]

Sniper+Beseech the Dark Gods seems like a good combo, as long as you don't roll a "1". I was thinking we can put out a surprising amount of dakka, or we can get more flamers than most as well, so I was thinking of a few different lists. 

 

On the note of Aspiring Champions, what do people think of power swords vs power fists?

 

A couple of 100pt lists I was thinking of were one where you load up on stubbers and heavy bolters, an alternative is where one takes 3 flamers. 3 flamers would be quite nasty.

[hushrong]

I've been using the power sword and haven't been too impressed with it. Strength user is so-so for me since most armies I am fighting are marines. AP -3 is always nice and 1 damage is 1 damage. My issue, because I am fighting against marines, is landing wounds on a 4+.

 

The power fist with S x2, AP -3 and D D3 looks very tempting but the -1 to hit has me grinding teeth a bit. I rewrote my list to bring a Champ with a power fist but have yet to use it.

 

I honestly would love to see others input on this.

 

Flamers are nasty. The reason why flamers scare me are TS Rubrics armed with warpflamers. It's legit and can be VERY nasty. I mentioned it on the TS forum but you can give each Rubric a warpflamer, advance them toward the enemy, you can shoot d6 auto-hits since it's an assault weapon if you have a viable target in range...and more often than not you will toast something. On the flipside someone has to shoot your rubric with All is Dust...and if they charge your warpflamer equipped mini...d6 auto-hits in overwatch is nasty. 

[Joe]

Out of curiosity, how are everyone's individual kill teams coming along? I've played a few games using some leftover Space Marines I had knocking around, but my actual kill team hasn't really progressed all that far yet...

 

[thewarriorhunter]

I plan on eventually building up a CSM Kill Team but haven't gotten their yet. I have the Execution Force game so I've got three boltgun marines and a lot of cultists. I'm going to see if I can somehow convert a spare HB from a dev sprue to work with the marine models, otherwise I'm thinking a pure cultist list could be a lot of fun and I've got 15 of those models to work with.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

So. How are we arming Marine Champs? For Leaders, power swords & fists are probably excessive but plasma pistols are always nice for the Strength and AP even if you never overcharge it.

 

A Khorne Zealot Champ with fist and fight-twice strat is going to hurt. Though a power sword is probably just as good since there isn't a built in hit penalty.

[Panzer]

The thing is that unless you take a Cultist Leader you can't have your Marine Champion be anything interesting aside from being the Leader since you're allowed to have only one Marine Champion in your Kill Team.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I'm aware of that. Cultist Leader isn't a terrible choice though. Keep him in the back, out of LOS, and use him as a cheap CP battery while the rest of the team does the hard work.

[Midnight Brotherhood]

Depends how you like to play, I can't stomach a cultist being the leader of my Night Lords kill team personally. I find the cultist champion makes an excellent combat specialist. I like to arm my CSM Aspiring Champion with a power fist and bolt pistol using the DV chosen model. He rarely gets to shoot anyway and if anyone does come within 12" I'd sooner charge and use the power fist rather than not charge and shoot. Dropping the plasma pistol and saving 2pts just helps you squeeze in certain kill team configurations you would otherwise be slightly over for.

[MaxB]

Only played a couple of games, but here's some stuff that I'm learning:

 

- Beseech the Gods on a CSM gunner Heavy Specialist with HB. Without modifiers, BS 2+ wounding all but DG on 2+ for the rest of the game is fun

- Use scout phase strategy no. 5 (the bonus movement one) to rush 2x flamer cultists up the board

- Currently using a power sword, but having the D3 damage of the fist would be handy - really insuring guys go out of action rather than flesh wound

- Bunch your cultists up. Yes vulnerable to multi shot guns, but Nerve tests can really spiral once you inevitably lose a few guys so you need as much Leadership help as possible. THey also can meatshield your flamers/CSM champ

- While a bit unfluffy, having a Cultist champ as leader works - hide him so you keep getting those CP's (I like to think my Fallen are the real puppet masters, just using the Cultist champ to gain further influence over the local populace.

 

There's a few more things I want to try like the icons and more strats (there's quite a few to get your head around!)

 

Max

[JeffJedi]

I'm considering a kill team using Sons of Horus Reavers. Maybe they never accepted Abbadon and kept the Heresy colors and name.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Depends how you like to play, I can't stomach a cultist being the leader of my Night Lords kill team personally. I find the cultist champion makes an excellent combat specialist. I like to arm my CSM Aspiring Champion with a power fist and bolt pistol using the DV chosen model. He rarely gets to shoot anyway and if anyone does come within 12" I'd sooner charge and use the power fist rather than not charge and shoot. Dropping the plasma pistol and saving 2pts just helps you squeeze in certain kill team configurations you would otherwise be slightly over for.

Yeah, the thought that my Legionnaires might be following the orders of an operative is counterintuitive, but I can rationalize it by simply pointing out how devastating a power sword Zealot Aspiring Champ is in combat. With VOTLW applied, he is wounding a Marine on 2+ at AP-3. That can leave a mark!

 

I also feel that flamers are going to be go-to guns for us. We can nab three in a list, one being a Demo specialist which is not at all shabby. The reason I'm in love with fire? Rate of fire. A potential 6 shots per gun is superb at such a small scale; they autohit and thus ignore range and flesh wound mods; and being short range isn't an issue when it's a small board packed with terrain and you can still shoot after Advancing.

[MaxB]

Just brainstorming some combos with the various icons. Would this work?

 

Use Beseech the Gods on a Zealot Champ with Power sword, and take another CSM with Icon of Excess. Now in combat the Zealot Champ is hitting on 2+ and triggering Death to False Emperor on 4+ (Modified by Beseech the Gods). On the charge wounding most things on 2+ (power sword).

 

Legal? This assumes the Death to the False Emperor can be from modified rolls. Which I think is correct, as overwatch, etc, always specify un-modified rolls.

 

Now this only works against Imperium, and is best if the Zealot charges, and if he and the icon CSM both survive....so a few conditions. But could be fun!

[MaxB]

I also feel that flamers are going to be go-to guns for us. We can nab three in a list, one being a Demo specialist which is not at all shabby. The reason I'm in love with fire? Rate of fire. A potential 6 shots per gun is superb at such a small scale; they autohit and thus ignore range and flesh wound mods; and being short range isn't an issue when it's a small board packed with terrain and you can still shoot after Advancing.

 

 

Mm flamers are great. I'm sticking to two flamer cultists.

 

Worth taking the third over a Plasma gun though? Maybe depends on opponent. For eg flamers on DG are gonna struggle

Edited August 10, 2018 by MaxB

[MasterDeath]

 

The veteran specialism seems to fall by the wayside a little, not really sure what to take that one on or instead of. Heavy, sniper and demo or zealot seem to be my go tos at the moment.

 

Have you thought about making the Veteran a Babysitter for some cultists? Seen it all to make them fight longer and Battle-Scarred to put pressure on the opponent. For a lvl 4 One-Man-Army because its awesome.

[old git]

I keep thinking '...is it just me...?'

 

Don't get me wrong, over the years I have come to respect other players ways of doing things, usually 'cos they don't align with mine. However,

 

...why do players seem to be treating KT as just a smaller 40k game (I know, I know)? People seem to be advocating fitting in as much firepower as they can with the best possible combination of rerolls and weapons for the points. I realise we like to win but what about the narrative? A Kill Team is assembled for a specific mission, or series of missions, to achieve a goal. Even a one off game should (for me at least) represent this, not simply a gathering of X Y and Z to achieve 1 2 and 3. I hope I make some sense.

[Panzer]

I keep thinking '...is it just me...?' Don't get me wrong, over the years I have come to respect other players ways of doing things, usually 'cos they don't align with mine. However, ...why do players seem to be treating KT as just a smaller 40k game (I know, I know)? People seem to be advocating fitting in as much firepower as they can with the best possible combination of rerolls and weapons for the points. I realise we like to win but what about the narrative? A Kill Team is assembled for a specific mission, or series of missions, to achieve a goal. Even a one off game should (for me at least) represent this, not simply a gathering of X Y and Z to achieve 1 2 and 3. I hope I make some sense.

 

Because that's just the nature of the game. That has literally nothing to do with 40k.

Also having a team assembled for a specific mission basically means them being equipped with the best possible loadout to achieve victory in said mission. ^^

[thewarriorhunter]

I keep thinking '...is it just me...?' Don't get me wrong, over the years I have come to respect other players ways of doing things, usually 'cos they don't align with mine. However, ...why do players seem to be treating KT as just a smaller 40k game (I know, I know)? People seem to be advocating fitting in as much firepower as they can with the best possible combination of rerolls and weapons for the points. I realise we like to win but what about the narrative? A Kill Team is assembled for a specific mission, or series of missions, to achieve a goal. Even a one off game should (for me at least) represent this, not simply a gathering of X Y and Z to achieve 1 2 and 3. I hope I make some sense.

 

I hear you. I consider myself a hobbyist first, gamer second. When I game I consider the narrative first, then the competition second. I try to focus on having a great game and story told to the players, and my hope is for everyone to have fun. I've played four games of KT so far and only won one of them, but all four were a blast and really close.

 

My last two games were intro games for new people, one was a coworker and the other was my dad. It was Raven Guard vs Grey Knights, a match up that shouldn't really happen so I put a story together. Raven Guard had established a forward operating base in a blown out Imperial city. Tsneetch has sewn rumors and threats of a chaos uprising in that city so the Grey Knights responded. Confusion ensued and the two forces fought each other as they were trying to figure out what was going on. It wasn't the best story, but it explained what was happening and we all had fun.

 

You might consider who you're playing against, and maybe set the expectations before hand? I will admit I try to make a good list, but I don't care about optimizing and if something is cool I'm going to take that over something that might be better, but I think is lame.

[MaxB]

I keep thinking '...is it just me...?' Don't get me wrong, over the years I have come to respect other players ways of doing things, usually 'cos they don't align with mine. However, ...why do players seem to be treating KT as just a smaller 40k game (I know, I know)? People seem to be advocating fitting in as much firepower as they can with the best possible combination of rerolls and weapons for the points. I realise we like to win but what about the narrative? A Kill Team is assembled for a specific mission, or series of missions, to achieve a goal. Even a one off game should (for me at least) represent this, not simply a gathering of X Y and Z to achieve 1 2 and 3. I hope I make some sense.

 

Well this is a Tactica thread - hence all the competitive/tactical talk. 

 

There is another thread with more of a Hobby/narrative focus.

 

But maybe this is more a general observation you're having?

 

My LGS definitely has a nice mix of a hobby/competitive focus with Kill Team - we are having our own kill team painting/modelling comp (for bragging rights only haha), all to get ready for a Kill Team campaign.

 

But still, people like winning and have fun figuring out the best combos.

[Midnight Brotherhood]

 

The veteran specialism seems to fall by the wayside a little, not really sure what to take that one on or instead of. Heavy, sniper and demo or zealot seem to be my go tos at the moment.

 

Have you thought about making the Veteran a Babysitter for some cultists? Seen it all to make them fight longer and Battle-Scarred to put pressure on the opponent. For a lvl 4 One-Man-Army because its awesome.

 

 

Sounds like a great idea, I'll have to give it a try!

 

One thing I'm finding annoying at the moment is I feel like I can't use the veteran's level 1 tactic ability to move first before the game starts as I need the 2CP to do beseech the gods on my heavy bolter.

 

Ideally I'd love to move a CC veteran up the board with his tactic and also do beseech the gods but it's just not possible unless I gimp myself on points, and that doesn't seem worth it.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Midnight Brotherhood

[MasterDeath]

Well, there are a few workarounds so you can use both stratagems. If you have "One Man army" on your Vet, you get a CP for Vet-Stratagems. Leaders have "Tactician" +1 CP on 5+ Stratagem or you could put 10 points less than your opponent on the table for another +1 CP per round. But basically, you have to choose and "a good game is a string of hard descisions" as I think Sid Meier once said.