Kill Team Tactica: Heretic Astartes

[Midnight Brotherhood]

Well, there are a few workarounds so you can use both stratagems. If you have "One Man army" on your Vet, you get a CP for Vet-Stratagems. Leaders have "Tactician" +1 CP on 5+ Stratagem or you could put 10 points less than your opponent on the table for another +1 CP per round. But basically, you have to choose and "a good game is a string of hard descisions" as I think Sid Meier once said.

Good call, I still need to play at higher levels. Me and a friend are starting our first campaign tonight of Night Lords vs Death Guard. Should be interesting.

[mel_danes]

The +1 CP for points disparity is just the first round of play, it does not repeat.

[MasterDeath]

The +1 CP for points disparity is just the first round of play, it does not repeat.

Good catch. 

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

The +1 CP for points disparity is just the first round of play, it does not repeat.

Is it just +1 CP for the first turn or can that single CP be saved for later in game.

[Panzer]

 

The +1 CP for points disparity is just the first round of play, it does not repeat.

Is it just +1 CP for the first turn or can that single CP be saved for later in game.

 

 

You get the +1CP per 10p below the one with the highest points at the beginning of the first turn but you can use them in any turn you want. They don't vanish at the end of the first turn. ;)

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Cheers fort he clarification.

[Midnight Brotherhood]

Played against Death Guard doing disrupt the supplys with me attacking and him defending, just some observations:

 

I tried beseech the gods for the first time on my heavy bolter and he was found unworthy lol. It hurt losing my fire support, I think in the future I'll take that risk on the Cultist with heavy stubber as losing the CSM heavy bolter is just too much of a blow and I think the cultist feels the benefit a lot more (effectively making him as good as a CSM at shooting)

 

So I think for a CSM on the move, a CSM heavy gunner with a meltagun is a solid choice for objective capping. He can melt any enemy off an objective and be very mobile by being able to move and advance and still shoot without penalty.

 

I'm finding bolters surprisingly reliable as well for gunning down T3 targets. Power Fist is defo the way to go on the champion, smashed a plague marine in the first round of close combat no problem.

 

CC Cultists are still good at ganging up on weak targets of similar statline to themselves, they struggle with MEQs though. Autoguns are good for additional fire support against MEQs and below.

[MaxB]

Played a fun game last week against marines.

 

The cc cultists actually did something other than die!

 

Was able to get 5 cultists around 2 space marines on an objective. They lasted 3 turns securing the objective and the game.

 

My opponent got unlucky not killing them off earlier (though I has flesh wounded the SM sergeant already) and his other marines were too far away to rescue them. So lesson learned is that everything is a bit more survivable in KT. And being able to surround an opponent stops them from falling back, effectively keeping your weak cultists safe from getting shot up!

[MaxB]

Played against Death Guard doing disrupt the supplys with me attacking and him defending, just some observations:

 

I tried beseech the gods for the first time on my heavy bolter and he was found unworthy lol. It hurt losing my fire support, I think in the future I'll take that risk on the Cultist with heavy stubber as losing the CSM heavy bolter is just too much of a blow and I think the cultist feels the benefit a lot more (effectively making him as good as a CSM at shooting)

 

So I think for a CSM on the move, a CSM heavy gunner with a meltagun is a solid choice for objective capping. He can melt any enemy off an objective and be very mobile by being able to move and advance and still shoot without penalty.

 

I'm finding bolters surprisingly reliable as well for gunning down T3 targets. Power Fist is defo the way to go on the champion, smashed a plague marine in the first round of close combat no problem.

 

CC Cultists are still good at ganging up on weak targets of similar statline to themselves, they struggle with MEQs though. Autoguns are good for additional fire support against MEQs and below.

I'll have to give the meltagun a try.

 

Devastating Beseech the Gods result!

 

I was thinking you could run at 90pts for the extra CP, having a re-roll for Beseech the Gods. 

[Midnight Brotherhood]

You can't reroll the result unfortunately. Tactical reroll isn't the same as 40k where you can use it for anything, you can only use it for very specific rolls now which it lists in the tactic.

[MaxB]

Ah good call. I think i'll still risk it, maybe not during a campaign though...

[Midnight Brotherhood]

Yeah I don't think I'll risk it on my heavy bolter again as he's too much of a lynch pin in the kill team to risk losing. Certainly I'll try it on the heavy stubber cultist though, or possibly a CSM Zealot as it would trigger DTTFE and the killing frenzy zealot tactic on a 5+ instead of 6+ and also wounding on a 2+ with a chainsword on the charge against T4.

[Juicemonger]

I've played 3 games with Heretic Astartes so far. I lost first to Adeptus Astartes.

I took a cultist heavy list. Beseech the Dark Gods killed my CSM melee Zealot before the game began and while my cultists lasted most of the game they were neutralized by the flesh wound > shaken domino effect.

 

Game 2 I lost to Tyranids

Took a more balanced list of Cultists and Marines. 2 cultist flamers and a csm flamer. "Beseeched" a Cultist Champion, but he got picked off before he reached combat. The CSM flamer got tied up by a hail mary Hormagaunt charge in turn 2. He got surrounded on turn 3 and was ineffective for the remainder of the game. Incredibly cold dice, my Leader with a power fist whiffed 6 swings in 4 turns. My Chainsword Zealot also failed to stick wounds on Termagaunts over 3 turns. Once enough cultists were flesh wounded the shaken and broken domino effect kicked in once again and I lost.

 

I finally won my first game last night against Adeptus Astartes.

Minimized my Cultists. A Cult champ was my leader, with two Stubber gunners. They sat back and scored objectives. My Aspiring Champ Zealot scored some kills with his power sword. My Heavy CSM gunner shot a few models off an objective. 3 chainsword marines pushed the central objective. While they killed little they were durable and obnoxious. My plasma sniper died early but thats ok. My dice were a little hot, which unfortunately took some of the enthusiasm out my opponents sails. That said, I feel like I played a solid game without too many glaring tactical errors.

 

Mass cultists FEEL like a liability, but 3 in the back field staying hidden are an amazing tool.

[Berzul]

I gotta preface this by saying that I have never played Chaos.... not officially anyway. I am Dark Angel player, after all ;D

 

In any case, I want to try a dip into chaos with Kill Team. I have a box of Veterans frommy chapter I think I could make as Fallen, and I'd like to build a command roster by adding a box of Chaos Space Marines and a box of Cultists, to paint as Alpha Legion. My plan is to play them as an Alpha Legion main list, with some Fallen Angels in there, thematically playing them as allies of the Alpha Legion.

 

But, I have no idea how to put together Chaos lists. Can anyone share some wisdom and advice on what Chaos lists should look like? Strenghts, weaknesses?

 

 

[Juicemonger]

Obviously, I'm not a walking success story, but I've learned a lot from my losses. Broad strokes they play similar to Tac marines with access to melee chaff and the luxury of dirt cheap cultists (a double edged sword as seen above). However you get 3 cultists for 1 marine so you can boost your numbers from 7 to 9 comfortably with out losing much offense or defense and increasing your board control.

Marines:

Aspiring champ- Power Sword or Fist, Bolt Pistol or Plasma pistol. My favorite build at the moment is Zealot with Sword and Bolt Pistol. Consistently sticks wounds on the charge with 3 Strength 5 ap -3 attacks. Mark of Khorne unlocks the fight twice tactic for 2 cp.

CSM Gunner- So far Heavy/Demo Heavy Bolter have worked well paired with either a Sniper Plasma Rifle or a Demo Flamer. Melta seems too inconsistent.

CSM- so far I've been running them with chainswords and been pleased. Bolters seldom kill models, might as well skew melee and tie up enemy shooting. Even better if you play the wet noodle slap fights on objectives.

Cultist:

Champ- tried a zealot build, was underwhelmed. Now I've decided to run one as my leader for my backfield CP battery.

Gunner- Heavy Stubbers are free, it's hard to beat free. On the other hand if you MUST play aggressively with Cultists flamers are lethal but die to a stiff breeze.

Cultists- again, I've skewed to melee when I've run them, while they can tie up scary shooters for dirt cheap their deaths and flesh wounds can bring you to difficult nerve tests and break tests very quickly.

As for Icons, I've found them to be of debatable value. Icon of Vengeance buffs morale for 1 point so why not. Icon of Wrath gives rerolls to charge, but at 5 points, thats one less cultist on the board.

Tactics: Daemon Spirit 2 CP for a 50% chance of a mortal wound... expensive

Veterans of the Long war, 2 CP for +1 to wound against Imperium. Expensive and situational.

Beseech The Dark gods: 2 CP for a 5/6 chance to get +1 to hit and +1 to wound. Fantastic except for that 1/6 the model dies before the game starts. How much do you like gambling?

Fury of Khorne. Fight twice, always worth 2 CP when you have a 3 attack strength 5 power sword.

Mostly I find the Specialist tactics to be more useful than the Faction tactics.

 

So far the builds feel a little bland perhaps. I'm hoping new tactics from a start collecting box spice things up.

[Juicemonger]

A quick aside on buying/building cultists, Necromunda Orlocks come with a flamer and heavy stubber, options only found in the discontinued Dark Vengeance box. Visually I think they work just fine for Cultists as well.

[Berzul]

I was thinking of something on the lines of:

Aspiring Champion Leader with Power Sword and Plasma Pistol

Chaos Space Marine Zealot with Chainsword and Bolt Pistol
Chaos Space Marine Gunner Heavy with Heavy Bolter
Chaos Space Marine Gunner Sniper with Plasma Rifle

Chaos Space Marine with Botlgun
Chaos Space Marine with Boltgun
Chaos Cultist with Autogun
Chaos Cultist with Autogun
Chaos Cultist with Combat Weapon and Auto Pistol
Chaos Cultist with Combat Weapon and Auto Pistol

10 models.

You can run the close combat marines with cultists as human shields, hold the midline with the bolter csm amd the plasma sniper

Keep the back with the heavy bolter and autogun cultists to provide him with cover and protection.

 

My idea would be to pair up the Aspiring Champion with the Zealot CSM, and keep them together as they run up, with a couple of Cultist in front of them to grant them cover (and maybe take some shots for their masters as well). I'd try and support them with the two CSM with Boltguns aiding the Sniper with Plasma Gun, as they move at a walking pace behind them, firing at approeaching threats or covering the flanks. In the back, and possibly in an elevated position, I'd set the Heavy Bolter as a Heavy Speciallist (gotta love "more bullets" as a tactic), with two Cultists with autoguns to cover him as well.

 

I'd paint the Specialists as Fallen, the regular CSM and the AC as regular Chaos Space Marines from the Alpha Legion, and the cultists as cultists. Trying to keep it fluffy.

 

As they level up, the specialists just get better at their jobs, really. So, not many ways to mess it up in progression there. But the leader I'd go down the reduce enemy leadership tree, as it will be a close combat leader.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Berzul

[Kilofix]

Does anyone have issues with lack of AP except for maybe the Gunner with Plasma or the Champion with Power Sword? Especially against 2+ Thousand Sons, 3+/5++ Death Guard or, 3+/2W Primaris?

[Juicemonger]

@Berzul

I dig it. It's a balanced start. Thoughts on how you'd add to it to fill out a command roster? I think a flamer marine to swap in for horde clearing and cultists with heavy weapons would give you some flexibility for different match ups.

@Kilofix

Haven't fought either yet, but I imagine it's a bit rough. We have 3 legitimate threats with plasma, heavy bolter and a melee leader against hard targets. Hypothetically, I'd try to focus melee threats and flamers with my heavy hitters and tie up their shooty stuff with cultists. 3 melee cultists tri-pointing one rubric is gonna be a wet noodle fight between 12 points of your models and 16+ of theirs. Let us know if you have any luck.

[Panzer]

Lack of AP is not really a lack per se. We aren't supposed to field a Kill Team of Plasma Havocs or similar.

And yes Rubrics and Plague Marines are basically 1 wound Terminators in Kill Team and everything with 2+ wounds is great as well.

Edited August 27, 2018 by sfPanzer

[Wicced]

Necromunda Orlocks come with a flamer and heavy stubber, options only found in the discontinued Dark Vengeance box.

 

where did you see flamers in that box? I only saw heavy stubbers and harpoon launchers. Or are you talking about the old metal ones?

Edited August 27, 2018 by Wicced

[Midnight Brotherhood]

@Kilofix - I always have a heavy melta gun specialist in my roster now for those opponents. People shy away from the meltagun but it's extremely potent and pretty much a guaranteed kill if it hits, considering most Primaris teams range from 5-7 models taking one out a turn hurts alot. Same with DG or TS.

 

Heavy melta gunner is great as he can advance and still shoot with no advance penalty giving him a large threat range, especially in a standard kill team board he can potentially have a threat range of 24" on a 30" board, and that's not even counting deploying him near the front or even using the forward positions option in the scouting phase. Save your tactical reroll for either his hit or wound as it's worth it.

 

Apart from that for DG/TS/Prim you just gotta stack weight of fire - sniper heavy bolter, heavy melta, demo flamer cultist (can wound on 2+/3+!), plasma pistol power fist leader, and then beseech the gods on a heavy stubber cultist and as many autoguns as you can fit. CSM with Icon to keep the gunline happy.

 

 

++ Kill Team List (Heretic Astartes) [100pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

List Configuration: Matched Play: Kill Team

 

+ Leader +

 

Aspiring Champion [18pts]: *No Mark*, Leader, Plasma pistol, Power fist

 

+ Specialists +

 

Chaos Cultist Gunner [8pts]: *No Mark*, Demolitions, Flamer

 

Chaos Space Marine Gunner [16pts]: *No Mark*, Heavy, Meltagun

 

Chaos Space Marine Gunner [16pts]: *No Mark*, Heavy bolter, Sniper

 

+ Non-specialists +

 

Chaos Cultist [4pts]: *No Mark*, Autogun

 

Chaos Cultist [4pts]: *No Mark*, Autogun

 

Chaos Cultist [4pts]: *No Mark*, Autogun

 

Chaos Cultist [4pts]: *No Mark*, Autogun

 

Chaos Cultist [4pts]: *No Mark*, Autogun

 

Chaos Cultist [4pts]: *No Mark*, Autogun

 

Chaos Cultist Gunner [5pts]: *No Mark*, Heavy stubber

 

Chaos Space Marine [13pts]: *No Mark*, Boltgun, Icon of Vengeance

 

++ Total: [100pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

[Kilofix]

Yeah - specifically for Primaris (multi wound), TS (negates the +1 save), DG (more DR rolls), I’m thinking of switching to Melta instead of Plasma.

[Berzul]

@Berzul

I dig it. It's a balanced start. Thoughts on how you'd add to it to fill out a command roster? I think a flamer marine to swap in for horde clearing and cultists with heavy weapons would give you some flexibility for different match ups.

 

I figure I'd bring in a heavy stubber cultist and a gunner with a flamer, to make it to 12 models. So I can switch out the plasma gunner with a flamer for crowd killing, and buff up the heavy support with the stubber.

[Juicemonger]

@Wicced, You're totally right. I guess I saw a good FB conversion and assumed. Silly me.

@Midnight Brotherhood,I dig it. Sniper HB sounds really effective. I might take a whack at the melta setup. I'm still gun shy about running that many cultists though. Morale can get out of hand so quickly.