Kill Team Tactica: Adeptus Astartes

[Disruptor_fe404]

Let’s get this started, shall we?
 
Use this thread to discuss Adeptus Astartes-related tactical topics. I’ll get the ball rolling with this list:
 
 
Matched Play!
 
Leader: Scout Sergeant - Sniper rifle, boltpistol, frag & krak grenades, camo cloak
 
Combat: Reiver Sergeant - Bolt carbine, combat blade, shock & frag & krak grenades, grapnel launcher
 
Sniper: Tactical Gunner - Heavy bolter, boltpistol, frag & krak grenades
 
Comms: Intercessor - Stalker boltrifle, boltpistol, frag & krak grenades
 
Fire Team (Space Marine Scouts): Scout Gunner - Missile launcher, boltpistol, frag & krak grenades, camo cloak
 
Fire Team (Space Marine Scouts): Scout Gunner - Missile launcher, boltpistol, frag & krak grenades, camo cloak
 
Total 98 points.
 
 
Things I’m considering and am looking for comments on:

• An Intercessor Sergeant with a power sword costs the same as the Reiver Sergeant above. I’ll have one on my Command Roster, and intend for them to be swappable depending on whether I’m facing power armour or not.
• Conventional wisdom has the stalker boltrifle being underwhelming, but I feel that the stalker’s Tactic is actually quite strong.
• I have enough points spare here that I can take a missile launcher on the Tactical Gunner instead of the heavy bolter, but I’d prefer the option of being able to use Hellfire Shells, as I know I will be seeing storm shield Veterans and Rubrics. Plus I don’t really think I need a third missile launcher…
• Alternatively, I’m also considering a Tactical Gunner with a meltagun instead of the heavy bolter, just so that this particular configuration has something else to harass at short range alongside the Reiver Sergeant.

So what do you think? What are your thoughts on Astartes in Kill Team? Anything you want to try out in a campaign? Have you had a chance to use the exclusive Tactics?

Edited September 17, 2019 by Chaplain Dosjetka
Edited title.

[Tokugawa]

KT looks like the best usage for primaris.

[Knightsword]

I'm still wrapping my head around the rule book but I like the idea of camping a Tactical Sergeant Comms specialist with an auspex next to a Tactical Gunner with a heavy bolter.

 

If I understand it correctly then the level 1 ability of the Comms specialist can give the Gunner a 2+ to hit and the auspex can then negate the modifier for shooting at an obscured target? Further giving the sniper specialist role to the Gunner like you have almost guarantees 2+ to hit if there are any additional modifiers (such as being at long range). Pairing this with the hellfire shells tactic would make for fun shenanigans. Not sure which path I'd go down with the levelling options for the sniper specialist role though, they're all very enticing when paired with a heavy bolter!

 

I agree that the stalker tactic looks rather juicy when dealing with power armour opponents, especially if you have a clear LoS on them.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Knightsword

[MasterDeath]

I think the Astartes are probably the strongest faction in KT. The amount of special/Heavy Weapons is absurd. 2 Missile launchers, 1 Heavy Bolter/Missile Launcher, 1 Special Weapon, Sniper Rifles, Stalker Bolters and Ultra-Long Range Grenades along with up to 4 Sergeants. There is no reason to ever take a normal grunt unless you already have all those Gunners and Sarges.

 

For the List above: Have you thought about a Aux-Grenade launcher Demolitionist. +1 to wound vs obscured at 30" is pretty good. Spend 1 CP for Custom Ammo and your frags hurt even Plague Marines on a 3+. And you are hitting obscured models even at 30" on a 4+, as grenade weapons get no range penalty. On level 2 you can even rerolls 1s to hit and your range goes up to 33" (Not that you need that).

[rendingon1+]

Why stalker bolt rifle is consider bad?

[Disruptor_fe404]

KT looks like the best usage for primaris.

 

Agreed. Being able to vary their loadouts within the 'squad' is huge. Hellblasters make a great showing in 40k proper though!

 

 

I'm still wrapping my head around the rule book but I like the idea of camping a Tactical Sergeant Comms specialist with an auspex next to a Tactical Gunner with a heavy bolter.

 

If I understand it correctly then the level 1 ability of the Comms specialist can give the Gunner a 2+ to hit and the auspex can then negate the modifier for shooting at an obscured target? Further giving the sniper specialist role to the Gunner like you have almost guarantees 2+ to hit if there are any additional modifiers (such as being at long range). Pairing this with the hellfire shells tactic would make for fun shenanigans. Not sure which path I'd go down with the levelling options for the sniper specialist role though, they're all very enticing when paired with a heavy bolter!

 

I agree that the stalker tactic looks rather juicy when dealing with power armour opponents, especially if you have a clear LoS on them.

 

Yup, you're understanding it correctly! The buff-bot Sergeant you've described certainly can do work too!

 

 

I think the Astartes are probably the strongest faction in KT. The amount of special/Heavy Weapons is absurd. 2 Missile launchers, 1 Heavy Bolter/Missile Launcher, 1 Special Weapon, Sniper Rifles, Stalker Bolters and Ultra-Long Range Grenades along with up to 4 Sergeants. There is no reason to ever take a normal grunt unless you already have all those Gunners and Sarges.

 

For the List above: Have you thought about a Aux-Grenade launcher Demolitionist. +1 to wound vs obscured at 30" is pretty good. Spend 1 CP for Custom Ammo and your frags hurt even Plague Marines on a 3+. And you are hitting obscured models even at 30" on a 4+, as grenade weapons get no range penalty. On level 2 you can even rerolls 1s to hit and your range goes up to 33" (Not that you need that).

 

I feel like Thousand Sons are definitely in the running, being lead by a psyker, with All Is Dust being a powerful rule and bird-goat-daemon Medics being fairly cheap in a campaign. Astartes are definitely up there though. So very versatile without being expensive like Deathwatch.

 

Not seeing where you're reading that grenades ignore the long range penalty? In the list above, I'd only put in the Intercessor you're proposing as a substitute for the heavy bolter Gunner as I rate both the Comms and Combat specialists pretty highly, and I don't really think there's enough situations where I'd prefer the Demo AGL over the Sniper heavy bolter, to be honest.

 

Why stalker bolt rifle is consider bad?

 

Conventional wisdom says it's less versatile than the standard bolt rifle, and I agree with that as a general obseration. But in the list above, there's not a lot of moving around anyway, so I think I'd be happy to run it, especially as I can throw that Tactic down if needed.

[MasterDeath]

 

 

 

I think the Astartes are probably the strongest faction in KT. The amount of special/Heavy Weapons is absurd. 2 Missile launchers, 1 Heavy Bolter/Missile Launcher, 1 Special Weapon, Sniper Rifles, Stalker Bolters and Ultra-Long Range Grenades along with up to 4 Sergeants. There is no reason to ever take a normal grunt unless you already have all those Gunners and Sarges.

 

For the List above: Have you thought about a Aux-Grenade launcher Demolitionist. +1 to wound vs obscured at 30" is pretty good. Spend 1 CP for Custom Ammo and your frags hurt even Plague Marines on a 3+. And you are hitting obscured models even at 30" on a 4+, as grenade weapons get no range penalty. On level 2 you can even rerolls 1s to hit and your range goes up to 33" (Not that you need that).

 

I feel like Thousand Sons are definitely in the running, being lead by a psyker, with All Is Dust being a powerful rule and bird-goat-daemon Medics being fairly cheap in a campaign. Astartes are definitely up there though. So very versatile without being expensive like Deathwatch.

 

Not seeing where you're reading that grenades ignore the long range penalty? In the list above, I'd only put in the Intercessor you're proposing as a substitute for the heavy bolter Gunner as I rate both the Comms and Combat specialists pretty highly, and I don't really think there's enough situations where I'd prefer the Demo AGL over the Sniper heavy bolter, to be honest.

 

 

 

Page 31: Long Range: "Grenade Weapons are not affected by this rule"

And as the Aux Launcher just increases grenade range for the model, no long range penalty.

 

What do you think is so good about the combat Specialist? Especially on a model without AP. I see the the reason for Coms, they are awesome. If Combat, I would use it on an Intercessor Sarge with Power Sword. Or for Adeptus Astartes, not at all. I would probably go for Heavy, Sniper and Demo and maybe Coms for one of them (Probably replacing the Heavy).

[SkimaskMohawk]

Reiver sarge gets 5 attacks with combat. Sheer weight of attacks should be enough to force successful wounds through. Plus the juicy grapnel let's you pull some really janky charges.

 

Intercessor with sword and combat does look like a slayer though, especially against 1ksons

[Disruptor_fe404]

 

Page 31: Long Range: "Grenade Weapons are not affected by this rule"

And as the Aux Launcher just increases grenade range for the model, no long range penalty.

 

What do you think is so good about the combat Specialist? Especially on a model without AP. I see the the reason for Coms, they are awesome. If Combat, I would use it on an Intercessor Sarge with Power Sword. Or for Adeptus Astartes, not at all. I would probably go for Heavy, Sniper and Demo and maybe Coms for one of them (Probably replacing the Heavy).

 

 

Not sure how I missed that exception to the long range penalty! Solid.

 

 

Reiver sarge gets 5 attacks with combat. Sheer weight of attacks should be enough to force successful wounds through. Plus the juicy grapnel let's you pull some really janky charges.

 

Intercessor with sword and combat does look like a slayer though, especially against 1ksons

 

This precisely. For both the Reiver and the Intercessor.

 

EDIT: It's worth pointing out that I am absolutely expecting close combat to happen in every mission.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Disruptor_fe404

[Kierdale]

How about:

 

Tac sergeant - comms spec, auspex. 14

Tac gunner - heavy bolter. 16

Reiver sergeant - combat spec. Grapnel. 18

Intercessor sergeant - leader power sword. 18

Intercessor gunner - demo spec, aux grenade. 16

= 82

 

Then either of...

Tac gunner with rocket launcher = 18...for more boom,

Or reiver with grapnel 17 for more CC...?

[Disruptor_fe404]

Viable. Though you can't have both a heavy bolter and a missile launcher in the Tactical Squad. Scout gunner with missile launcher instead? Since you already have two models with a CC bent.

[Kierdale]

Viable. Though you can't have both a heavy bolter and a missile launcher in the Tactical Squad. Scout gunner with missile launcher instead? Since you already have two models with a CC bent.

Oh yes!

 

So:

Tac sergeant - comms spec, auspex. 14

Tac gunner - heavy bolter. 16

Reiver sergeant - combat spec. Grapnel. 18

Intercessor sergeant - leader power sword. 18

Intercessor gunner - demo spec, aux grenade. 16

Scout gunner with rocket launcher. 16

= 98

 

Throw a camo cloak on the scout and give the tac sergeant a plasma pistol to make it 100? :)

[Knightsword]

I'll likely never get round to playing a game at this point but i'd like to try the below eventually.

 

I'd attempt to play the team per below:

• The missile launcher and heavy bolter camp at range with the auspex sergeant and shoot anyone and everything as well as make use of the Hellfire Shells tactic when possible.
• The Combat and Leader roles are interchangeable between the Intercessor Sergeant and Reiver Sergeant dependent on what I'm likely to face each game. Their loadouts would change accordingly.
• The Reiver Sergeant can harass the midfield and make a speedy getaway with the grapnel. The grav chute is there because I had a point spare.
• The Intercessor Gunner can either move up midfield or stay long range and camp with the heavy weapons.
• The Intercessor Sergeant valiantly charges up the field to engage in CC.

 

I'm not sure what role the Scout missilie launcher should be. I guess that would change depending on the opponent too. 

 

If I tweak the list so that the Reiver Sergeant is the Combat specialist with only a grapnel launcher and the Intercessor Sergeant the Leader with just a bolt rifle then I get enough points to give the Tactical Sergeant a combi-grav or combi-melta.

 

 

Reiver Sergeant - Leader Specialist

• Bolt carbine
• Heavy bolt pistol
• Grapnel launcher
• Grav chute

Total points: 19

 

Intercessor Sergeant - Combat Specialist

• Power sword
• Bolt rifle

Total points: 18

 

Scout Gunner - Heavy or Sniper Specialist

• Missile launcher
• Camo cloak
• Bolt pistol

Total points: 17

 

Intercessor Gunner - Demolitions Specialist

• Bolt rifle
• Bolt pistol
• Auxiliary grenade launcher

Total points: 16

 

Tactical Sergeant - Comms Specialist

• Boltgun
• Bolt pistol
• Auspex

Total points: 14

 

Tactical Gunner - Sniper Specialist

• Heavy bolter
• Bolt pistol

Total points: 16

 

Kill Team points total: 100

[MasterDeath]

I would give your Combat Sarge an Auto Bolter (was that the name? The Assault Weapon). If he is not charging, you will have him moving and advancing. Better to have an Assault weapon there.

Something to think about: The Level 2 Veteran stratagem, allows to advance and shoot, while counting as stationary. Would be funny with a Multimelter but a Missile Launcher should also work for surprise flank shoots. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I do think a demo scout sniper is going to be a necessity against 1ksons, who look really strong.

 

Supported by a coms aspects, you hit on 2+ and mortal wound on a 4+ with the tactic vs obscured. Let's you put down most single wound models, especially vulnerable leaders

[Knightsword]

I would give your Combat Sarge an Auto Bolter (was that the name? The Assault Weapon). If he is not charging, you will have him moving and advancing. Better to have an Assault weapon there.

Something to think about: The Level 2 Veteran stratagem, allows to advance and shoot, while counting as stationary. Would be funny with a Multimelter but a Missile Launcher should also work for surprise flank shoots. 

 

How did the auto bolt rifle not occur to me?! Makes much more sense. I have the amazing mental image of a scout sprinting, diving and firing a missile mid air.

 

 

I do think a demo scout sniper is going to be a necessity against 1ksons, who look really strong.

 

Supported by a coms aspects, you hit on 2+ and mortal wound on a 4+ with the tactic vs obscured. Let's you put down most single wound models, especially vulnerable leaders

 

I was about to ask whether the mortal wound roll had to be a natural 6, but it does say wound rolls of 6+ so modifiers must affect it. That's a really nasty combo. Not entirely sure who i'd swap out of the sniper rifle. Maybe alternate the missile launcher and sniper rifle depending on the game. 

[MasterDeath]

Thats actually what I really like about the Specialist system: What do I take? There are so many creative combos, you cant have them all. Very good design on GWs side, to not limit this Specs too much.

[Adalger]

Why is everyone going down the elite track (loading up on weapons, taking Primaris and/or seargents), resulting in low model count?

 

What do you think about

Reiver Seargent with knife, Leader.

Reiver with knife, combat spec.

Scout Seargent with sniper and camo, sniper spec.

Tactical Gunner with heavy bolter, heavy spec.

Three Tactical Marines with bolters as fire team.

 

Some spearheading and durable Reivers, some midrange support and long range specialists. Having 7 Marines could give them the edge because they can stand one more casualty before taking break tests.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Adalger

[Berzul]

 I must preface this list by stating that I do understand that reivers are the stars of the Space Marines Kill Teams, and that GW clearly wants us to play them. But I dislike Primaris in general, so I have no models for them.

 

With that said, I planned this list out:

 

Tactical Sergeant with Bolt Pistol and Auspex (Leader)

 

Tactical Gunner with Heavy Bolter (Sniper)

Scout Gunner with Heavy Bolter (Comms)

Intercessor Gunner with Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (Demolitions)

 

Scout with Bolter

Scout with Bolter

Scout with Bolter

Scout with Bolter

 

100 points on the dot, with a list of 8 models and a lot of supressive fire.

 

The idea is to have a balance between elites and non-elites, to reduce break tests and overwhelm the enmy. Astartes are already at a disadvantage on numbers. A list of 20 cultists can withstand and deal a lot more damage than 5 marines, despite their lower armor class, by virtue of their superior numbers. More guys means more wounds, splitted fire, and more shots coming your way at the ready.

 

So, going small and elite feels really dangerous to me. Which is why this list seeks to maximize both the bodies on the table as well as the shots being fired, to offset this weakness of the faction itself.

 

You have a Leader providing buffs through his auspex, supporting a moving line of accurante heavy fire. The Tactical gets to shoot on 2+/3+ due to marksman, the Scout gets to shoot at 2+/3+ due to scanner, the Intercessor gets to shoot without penalties thanks to the Sergeants Auspex, and offsets the low strength of the grenades with breacher. You then run a screen of scouts before them to take the front of enemy assaults and fire, or move them up together as objective capturers and harrassers of the enemy backline.

 

The weaknesses here is the total lack of close combat power, as well as the overuse of weapons with a high rate of fire, but low AP and D values, which means that you will have issue against heavily armored targets. The idea is to overwhelm the enemy with shots, and push on the wounds that way, which is by no means a perfect strategy. But, so far, my experience with the game has been of somewhat equal results with using lots of bolt shots, versus a couple of plasma shots, so I might as well try it out a bit more.

 

I'll try this list this week a few times, and see how it behaves, but to me, in paper, seems like a good way to go. Any criticism, of course, is more than welcome.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Berzul

[Berzul]

By 2+/3+ i mean when they are static, of course

[SkimaskMohawk]

Dont think we should be making expensive models our leaders. They're there to give us CP and help with leadership; cheap or durable seems the way to go, so scout sarge or intercesor sarge.

[Berzul]

Dont think we should be making expensive models our leaders. They're there to give us CP and help with leadership; cheap or durable seems the way to go, so scout sarge or intercesor sarge.

 

But, scout sarge has a save of 4+! For the 1 point difference, shouldn't the Tactical Sergeant be the better choice?

The intercessor sergeant is a lot more expensive, in this sense, and provides no additional benefit if I am correct... or does he have an extra wound on the normal intercessor?

[MasterDeath]

The Scout Sarge can get a Camo Cloak.

[Berzul]

Won't do much good against attacks that ignore obscured penalties.

 

The camo cloak improved that penalty by 1, does not provide a flat penalty to being shot.

 

I'm not saying its not good, it definetly adds survivability, but ups the cost by 2 points on the model, can be bypassed by an auspex, omnispwx, or equivalent, and still leaves you with a 4+ save.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Here's my thought on it. Bolters aren't great, so I'd rather hide my cheap leader and really reduce the chance of him ever dying, than take some potshots while paying more points and being targetable. A primaris is kind of a different story, since you have a gun that's great (rifle) and durability.

 

Other than that I had my first game tonight against gsc. Pretty easy to plink away dudes (he had almost all neophytes of some variety); I lost 3 out of 7 in total, 2 from an acolyte and purestrain and 1 from lots of combined fire.

 

Kinda feel like the morale stuff is badly implemented. It certainly speeds the game up, since it either a) ends the game in matched or b) locks down models from nerve. Maybe it was due to his higher model count, but it pretty much just spiralled into a win as soon as I killed half his list.