Kill Team Tactica: Adeptus Astartes

[thewarriorhunter]

That's a really good point. I think a lot of our discussion is taking place in the vacuum of one-off games where we are only seeing Level 1 traits being available. On the flip side though, the points increase for Level 2+ seems pretty drastic and I wonder if it's just better to retire those units at that point in a campaign and re-up a new level 1 unit.

[Berzul]

Demo does seem to work only at lv 1 on regular matches. Once you start leveling up, almost all skills are wasted on a sniper rifle.

 

As for HB over Missiles, yeah... I might go 3xHB tomorrow. Not sure what to do with the extra points I'd save. maybe take sniper rifle on the leader for safety.

As for specialties, I'm thinking I'll take

 

• Sniper in my plasma tactical as I need someone accurate to wound with it and not waste shots;
• Heavy on my tactical heavy weapon to keep him  moving along with the plasma marines;
• Comms on my tactical sgt to buff them both as needed.  Might switch him to an auspex even, not sure yet.

 

EDITED:

 

Now, thinking about the sniper scout as a demolitions expert, and considering saving 2 points on the missile launcher and rather going for a third heavy bolter...

 

How would this list be:

 

Scout Sgt., Leader, with Bolt Pistol and Chainsword

 

Scout, Demolitions, with Sniper Rifle and Camo Cloak

Tactical Gunner, Sniper, with Plasma Gun

Tactical Sgt., Comms, with Combi Plasma

 

Scout Gunner, with Heavy Bolter

Scout Gunner, with Heavy Bolter

Tactical Gunner, with Heavy Bolter

 

 

Leader just takes the chainsword because he has 2 attacks base, so when I get into melee, might as well have 3 attacks, but would otherwise stay out of trouble throughout the fight.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Berzul

[N1SB]

Quick note to thank you for sharing tabletop experiences from actual playing.

 

I want to do something with a mix of old & new, like a mix of scouts/tacticals and Primaris.  It looks like a mix of scouts/tacs with HBs and Intercessors would be great.

 

Looking forward to hearing more about Primaris.

[thewarriorhunter]

@Berzul-

 

I've not worked out the points in your list but can you make your Leader a marine? You'll get the 3+ save at that point. You do have the combi plasma in your list, I haven't taken that so that might be where your extra points are going.

 

I'm personally a fan of giving Heavy to one of your HBs. That will allow the model to be mobile and not suffer a penalty to hit for movement. Being able to reposition that gun can really make your opponent think twice about moving into open area that you now have covered.

 

 

Quick note to thank you for sharing tabletop experiences from actual playing.

 

I want to do something with a mix of old & new, like a mix of scouts/tacticals and Primaris.  It looks like a mix of scouts/tacs with HBs and Intercessors would be great.

 

Looking forward to hearing more about Primaris.

 

Reivers are really good and fit well with oldmarines. I want to build a Primaris only list but have to finish painting the 5 Word Bearers for 30k that are on my bench right now. I do plan on taking an AGL with Sniper so I can have a 'grenade sniper' in the back lines.

[Berzul]

Put the Scout Sgt as leader, to free my Combi Plasma Tac Sgt to take Comms as a specialism, so he can pair up better with my plasma gunner.

 

After the heavy weapons, and the special weapons, all I have left is 20 points or so.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Berzul

[Disruptor_fe404]

Have a day of gaming on Sunday. The Command Roster is what I'm considering against a field of Orks, Tyranids, and Deathwatch.

• Scout Sergeant + LEADER - Sniper rifle, camo cloak
• Scout Gunner + HEAVY -  Missile launcher, camo cloak
• Scout Gunner + SNIPER -  Missile launcher, camo cloak
• Scout Gunner -  Missile launcher, camo cloak
• Scout Gunner -  Missile launcher, camo cloak
• Tactical Sergeant - Combi-grav
• Tactical Gunner + SNIPER - Heavy bolter
• Tactical Gunner - Heavy bolter
• Tactical Gunner + SNIPER - Grav-gun
• Tactical Gunner - Grav-gun
• Reiver Sergeant + COMBAT - Bolt carbine, combat blade, grapnel launcher
• Reiver Sergeant - Bolt carbine, combat blade, grapnel launcher
• Reiver - Heavy bolt pistol, combat blade, grapnel launcher
• Reiver - Heavy bolt pistol, combat blade, grapnel launcher
• Intercessor Sergeant + COMBAT - Bolt carbine, power sword
• Intercessor + COMMS - Bolt rifle
• Intercessor Gunner - Bolt rifle, auxilliary grenade launcher
• Intercessor - Bolt rifle

 

I'll be looking at running variations of this 100-pt team out of that Roster (very similar to the one I posted in my initial post):

• Scout Sergeant + LEADER - Sniper rifle, camo cloak
• Scout Gunner -  Missile launcher, camo cloak
• Scout Gunner -  Missile launcher, camo cloak
• Tactical Gunner + SNIPER - Heavy bolter
• Intercessor + COMMS - Bolt rifle
• Intercessor Sergeant + COMBAT - Bolt carbine, power sword

The plan is of course to shoot things to bits before they reach me, but if they do, my COMBAT specialist serves as a counter-charge element. I can swap the SNIPER specialism to either a missile launcher Scout or take a grav-gun Gunner instead. I do actually have 2 points spare with this 'default' list, so perhaps I should re-jig the Command Roster itself to have the COMMS Intercessor be a Gunner with an Auxilliary Grenade Launcher (and now that I mention it, I see no reason not to...). Also, am considering swapping the COMMS specialism onto one of the Scout Gunners perhaps. As far as alternative options go, with the Reivers on the Roster, I can also push into a mobility-based close combat list for the marginally more swarm-based lists. Or I can pivot to double-grav and double-missile launcher to play against a more elite team.

[Berzul]

So, two games vs Tyranids yesterday. One on a tall board (lots of high buildings), one on a maze of low ruins.

 

My list was:

 

Scout leader with chainsword

 

Plasma tactical sniper

Combi plasma tactical comms

Heavy bolter tactical heavy

 

Scout with missile launcher

Scout with heavy bolter

Scout with bolter

 

My opponents list, although I do not remember the names of the gear, was:

 

Lictor leader

 

Combat warrior with plenty of swords

Heavy warrior with a big cannon

Veteran warrior with assault guns

 

Genestealer

 

 

Total victories both times.

 

My plasma sniper firing with 3+ at short range at the Lictor managed to put in 4 wounds on both battles, taking the leader out each time.

 

My missiles failed almost everytime, but my heavy bolters (with comms) managed to splatter the genestealer and combat warrior before they could get to me.

 

The MVP goes to my scout sgt, who on the second battle rushed an objective and got jumped by the veteran warrior. After two rounds of combat, he managed to slice it up with his chainsword, without taking a single wound himself.

 

Observations:

 

The luck was on my side on this one, so, take the victories with a grain of salt.

 

Plasma sniper + combi plasma comms + heavy bolter heavy are now my new A Team. Kept them together and they dealt so much damage... Just, so much damage.

 

The missile launcher is a very unreliable weapon, but when it hits, its amazing. Managed one 6-damage hit on a warriornon game two that desintegrated it outright.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Lictor should usually be getting obscured, so youd be hitting on a 4+ at best with coms support.

 

Honestly drawing los from the most favourable vantage means that larger models can deny obscure when shooting you, while still claiming it themselves

Edited August 10, 2018 by SkimaskMohawk

[Berzul]

I dont think the suspect overrides additional modifiers like camo cloaks or the lictors rule, so the plasma would have had a slightly harder time hitting the lictor.

I managed to catch it in the open once, hitting on 3+, with a 2+ due to stratagems.

 

The second time it was in cover. 3+ became 5+, back to 3+ due to comms and stratagem

 

Both times I fired overcharged shots, managed to land both hits each time, and with no saves stripped the lictor out of all of its wounds. Injury rolls were a 5 and a 6 respectively. Died both times.

 

Glory to the sons of the Lion!

Edited August 10, 2018 by Berzul

[SkimaskMohawk]

Edited my reply, but yea, totally forgot that the sniper strat is +1 to hit. I usually spend my cp on rerolls or demo for a priority mortal wounding

[Berzul]

Yeah, I forgot about it too on my early games.

 

Now I always have my CP at hand for that, and for More Bullets. I will usually use the +1 on comms with the HB with a +1 shot, to fire 4 times at 2+/3+, while the sniper fires at 2+/3+ rerolling on his own.

 

The team becomes quite deadly.

 

I am yet to try demolitions on the HB instead. The plan would be to offset the -1 to hit due to movement with the +1 duento comms, and fire at 3+/4+, but wounding on 2+ duw to demolitions. Less accuratez but deadlier.

[thewarriorhunter]

Honestly drawing los from the most favourable vantage means that larger models can deny obscure when shooting you, while still claiming it themselves

 

I've had that same thought. The simplest example I can think of is a bunker:

 

Hidden Content

 

Put a model inside and one out in the open. The model inside most likely has a clean shot at the model in the open. But if I draw LOS from his foot then it's an obscured shot, which doesn't make sense.

 

I feel LOS should be determined from center mass on models that are shooting and I plan on being consistent with that.

[Berzul]

I was under tje impression that if you are up against cover, THAT piece of cover did NOT obscure your target.

[thewarriorhunter]

I was under tje impression that if you are up against cover, THAT piece of cover did NOT obscure your target.

 

It shouldn't, but I can see someone trying to rules lawyer that it could.

[Berzul]

Ok, seriously, you'd have to be pointing a gun to someones head to convince them of that argument.

... I mean, I'd just pain stop the game if someone tried to enforce that on me, and would never play them again... ever.

[Neophyte for your Ryghts]

 

 

I was under tje impression that if you are up against cover, THAT piece of cover did NOT obscure your target.

It shouldn't, but I can see someone trying to rules lawyer that it could.

So, I don't have the rule book yet, but this is a rule. I think it's limited range, perhaps 1", but whoever is closer to obscuring terrain 'controls' it. So imagine my marine is adjacent to a low wall shooting a guardsman in the open. When I shoot him, there is no obscuring terrain, as I control it. Him shooting at me, however, is at -1. Is this a normal rule or advanced rule? No idea. But plenty of competent YouTube battle reports reference it. In fact, where control is unclear you roll off.

 

Hope that helps.

[Berzul]

It does! Thanks

[Panzer]

There's no such rule as controling terrain. Neither in the rules about shooting (including the rules for obscured targets) nor in the advanced rules for terrain.

 

However it's just logical that you don't obscure your own line of sight when hugging some terrain most of the time simply by how it's worded. It says you "aim" from the part of the models body that gives you the clearest line of sight. That could for example be a models elbow or foot or whatever if it means that you can shoot at your target without having it obscured by the terrain you're hugging.

[Neophyte for your Ryghts]

There's no such rule as controling terrain. Neither in the rules about shooting (including the rules for obscured targets) nor in the advanced rules for terrain.

 

However it's just logical that you don't obscure your own line of sight when hugging some terrain most of the time simply by how it's worded. It says you "aim" from the part of the models body that gives you the clearest line of sight. That could for example be a models elbow or foot or whatever if it means that you can shoot at your target without having it obscured by the terrain you're hugging.

Huh, weird. Where is this coming from, I wonder, cos I've seen it more than once. Can't recall which vid tho and, I confess, it could be from dozens I've watched in the last couple of days... Anyone else with a rule book have anything more on this?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Its purely made up

[Berzul]

Makes sense, though

[Disruptor_fe404]

'Best vantage point' from the shooting model (as per the rules) makes perfect sense to me, personally.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Me and my main opponent do Los from heads to get around some of the gameyness of "I'm actually shooting from my elbow so you don't get obscured, but I'm obscured from you"

[thewarriorhunter]

Played a game with a friend this evening after he got off work. Rereading the rules before hand and 'best vantage point of the model' is RAW, and I get it from a thematic sense. My elbow might be the only thing sticking out but that's because I'm ducking out to fire a shot and then ducking back behind when you're shooting at me. I can understand why some people might feel it's 'gamey' but I believe it makes sense.

 

Side Note: Game was fun. It was Raven Guard vs Grey Knights. I played GK, he was brand new so I gave him my RG since I had an idea how to play them so I could help them. I played the objective and was able to barely win because of that. He almost wiped me by turn two though because my rolls were terrible. Rolling averaged out by the end of the game though and it was good. We work together so I can see some 'extended' lunch breaks in our future...

[Neophyte for your Ryghts]

Its purely made up

I hereby declare this ruling 'Line of Ryghts™". Please subscribe to my Patreon account for more dreamrules.