Kill Team Tactica: Adeptus Astartes

[Panzer]

Me and my main opponent do Los from heads to get around some of the gameyness of "I'm actually shooting from my elbow so you don't get obscured, but I'm obscured from you"

 

I don't see how that's "gamey". The guy who's hugging the terrain should be perfectly capable to bend around it to give some clear shots and still have most of his body obscured. Cover is not a binary thing where either both have it or none. You might measure from the elbow for the model but in reality your model is just looking around the corner for a few seconds. Models are static, soldiers are not. ^^

[Raven1]

 

 

Me and my main opponent do Los from heads to get around some of the gameyness of "I'm actually shooting from my elbow so you don't get obscured, but I'm obscured from you"

I don't see how that's "gamey". The guy who's hugging the terrain should be perfectly capable to bend around it to give some clear shots and still have most of his body obscured. Cover is not a binary thing where either both have it or none. You might measure from the elbow for the model but in reality your model is just looking around the corner for a few seconds. Models are static, soldiers are not. ^^

Fully agree the models are static but game isn't if you can play the angles then do it.

[thewarriorhunter]

I played against my dad today. He's never touched a tabletop game before and he had a blast. He used the obscured rule to full effect on me... His sgt is holding out a chainsword and he declared a shooting attack against one of mine. I said "he can't see him around the corner" to which my dad replied "his hand is sticking out so he has a clear shot"... I was pissed and impressed all at once... luckily I made my save 

[Disruptor_fe404]

Alrighty, played three games on Sunday and watched a fourth.

 

First game, I drew against Thousand Sons (can't remember mission type, but it wasn't Take Prisoners or Sweep and Clear or Recover Intelligence). Missile launchers and grav guns were my go-to choices to get around All is Dust.

 

Second game was against Tyranids. It was Take Prisoners, and he had a very close combat-heavy list, so I didn't fancy my chances. Turns out he rolled pretty badly while my bolt pistols rolled hot. Like, real hot. I won this, despite being charged first turn and my cloaked missile scouts basically doing nothing. Executed two genestealers with bolt pistol rounds to the head, while the combat-cessor sarge earned his points by slicing through three genestealers before dying to a lictor. I completely failed to kill the only termagant on the field though, which managed to get to maximum flesh wounds after making three armour saves in a row against boltpistols.

 

Third game was the same list against Orks, playing Recover Intelligence. This was a stomping by the greenskins, as I felt like trying out the same list without any changes. He brought twelve models, and tied up two-thirds of my team in the first movement phase (I set up a touch too aggressively, I think). Game ended with him on 34 victory points and me on 1.

 

I learned a lot in those games! Mostly that a decent Command Roster needs options that can deal with swarms, and that camo cloaks are effectively wasted points against Orks. Definitely looking at ways of getting flamers into the Roster, as well as perhaps a few bare-bones shotgun scouts.

 

Also, old news I'm sure, but from the game I watched, frag cannons are pretty much easy mode.

[MasterDeath]

This is actually good advice, Disruptor. If I may ask a question: How did the Morale phase play out in these games? Any cases of fail-cascading?

[Disruptor_fe404]

Nids have no issue with Leadership unless they actually run a solid number of gaunts (and I wouldn't expect see many do this), and the various flavours of Marines have re-rolls. It happened too late to actually help me, but I did manage to get one Ork flank to crumble via Shaken tokens at the end of the game against them.

[thewarriorhunter]

if there are warriors on the field and in a half decent location nids don't care about nerve tests at all. Warriors have a 12" bubble for auto-passing nerve tests. In my two games against them no model ever had to take a test.

[Panzer]

Yeah as always it's key to take out synapse creatures against nids. However if you managed to do that and there are only gaunts left then you should have basically won already since their LD is so low. ^^

[Berzul]

So, Warriors and Lictors have synapse?

[Panzer]

So, Warriors and Lictors have synapse?

 Only Warriors, but Lictors and Genestealer have LD9 and are lacking the Instinctive Behaviour rule as well.

[Berzul]

He guys, need your opinions and thoughts on this list vs Tyranids.

 

This is to fight a friend who I already faced with a heavy plasma list, when he fought with a list if just a lictor leader, 3 warriors and 1 genestealer.

 

He did not play a horde of gaunts because his first fights he played with multiple shot weapons being able to shoot everyone with their split shots, instead of a 2" area around your initial target. A rules mistake that made him feel that hordes were kinda pointless.

 

I corrected this ruled mistake in our game, and I fully expect him to run a horde of gaunts this time, with his camuflaged lictor at the lead, and genestealers to rush me.

 

My list, as planned, is this:

 

Tactical Sergeant (Leader), with Auspex and Bolt Pistol

 

Scout (Demolitions), with Sniper Rifle and Camo Cloak

Scout (Comms), with Sniper Rifle and Camo Cloak

Tactical Gunner (Sniper), with Missile Launcher

 

Scout Gunner with Heavy Bolter

Scout Gunner with Heavy Bolter

Intercessor Gunner with Bolt Rifle and Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

 

I plan on running the Leader and Sniper specialists together to hunt the Lictor and any Warriors to break synapse. The missile should be able to fire at 2+/3+ with stratagems, and ignoring obscured (which will negate the Lictor's camouflage).

 

Then, the two Scouts go together in higher ground to fire at genestealers. A Demo sniper firing on 2+/3+ with Comms at even obscured targets, can push a Mortam Wound on a 5+/4+ with stratagems, and hopefully negate the 5++ save of the genestealers.

 

Lastly, a gunline of Heave Bolters and Grenades shall focus on Gaunts rushing my position, firing as many salvo of shots as I can before they reach me.

 

Any thoughts?

[MasterDeath]

What Mission are you gonna play? Of the 8 Missions in the Rulebook one will force you to hold the middle (Gather Intelligence), one will force you into Melee (Take Prisoner) and three will force you to move heavily, if you are on the wrong side (Disrupt Supply and Feint as an Attacker, and Ambush as the Defender). You have two models in your list that can actually move without hindering themself (Leader and Intercessor). Maybe some Flamers?

[Berzul]

We are going to roll them at random, saddly. Can't plan to such detail.

[thewarriorhunter]

We are going to roll them at random, saddly. Can't plan to such detail.

That's the best way! I prefer to roll, but then I love the open war deck for 40k... Hrm... I need to see if I can use the open war deck for kill team for variety...

[Disruptor_fe404]

My group is limited to the four Matched Play missions for now. I'm the one who has the most developed Command Roster though - the others are either fielding multiple factions or are experimenting heavily within their own Rosters.

 

As a side note, I think it's worth thinking of Kill Teams in terms of what your Command Roster brings, as that is how the game is designed.

[thewarriorhunter]

I haven't dipped into the command roster because I'm still in the experimental stage, and I really only have a few units to take. I should probably put a roster together for my Raven Guard. I'm working on a homebrew Kill Team that I want to be entirely Primaris. If that doesn't work (get's stomped all the time) I'll look into adding some tacs/scouts since they are cheaper and will get me an extra body or two.

[Disruptor_fe404]

My experience thus far has been that the W2 of Primaris models is very nice, but is tempered by an absence of brute force that is present in the other unit types.

[thewarriorhunter]

Yes, the fact that the Primaris have nothing over STR 4 for a weapon is disappointing. The options are limited but my lore demands Primaris, at least to start. I can always retcon if I need to...

[UnkyHamHam]

I'm not quite sure I understand the command roster. Even if you were just going to play matched play with no campaign or experience increase rules, are you still able to utilize the roster? What purposes does it serve?

[thewarriorhunter]

Think of it like a multi-tool like a Leatherman. You have a tool that can take care of a variety of tasks but you won't need every tool for ever job. You need the pliers to pull a nail, the standard driver to remove a screw, and the scissors to clip the loose thread on your shirt.

 

The tool is the command roster, and the individual tools are your models. You rock up to the table with up to 20 'tools' available for use. Once you know what you need to get the job done you cherry pick your models to accomplish the objectives.

[Disruptor_fe404]

I'm not quite sure I understand the command roster. Even if you were just going to play matched play with no campaign or experience increase rules, are you still able to utilize the roster? What purposes does it serve?

You choose you Kill Team from the options you've noted down in your Command Roster, after you have rolled for mission (and theoretically after you've swapped Command Rosters with your opponents).

 

This means you know which factions you're going against and what the objectives of the mission will be, and can thus tailor accordingly.

[MasterDeath]

We are going to roll them at random, saddly. Can't plan to such detail.

Even more reason to have a bit of flexibility in the list. I never liked pure Gunline, but I mainly play daemons, so what do I know :D

[SkimaskMohawk]

Gamey wasn't quite the right word, but more like...consistent.

 

And also, considering how nothing else is hypothetical, I don't see how "my dude is really leaning around the corner to fully see you, even though it's just his elbow pad" gets the pass

[Berzul]

 

We are going to roll them at random, saddly. Can't plan to such detail.

Even more reason to have a bit of flexibility in the list. I never liked pure Gunline, but I mainly play daemons, so what do I know

 

 

Well we played the ambush mission, so I got absolutely CRUSHED and didn't manage to get ANYONE away. We also played the scenario were one defends 3 objectives? GOt my position rushed and was crushed. Both times I got my entire team wiped out.

 

I do not think the list was bad. To the contrary. Mortal Wounds wth the Sniper at 4+ wound rolls was amazing. Comms to buff it worked great. The missile launcher sniper with Auspex also worked amazingly well. And the 2-heavy bolters and Auxiliary grenade launcher were awesome vs gaunts.

 

BUUUUUUT, my opponend rolled more 6's saves than I have ever seen in my LIFE.

 

Plasma, with an AP-3, worked better last time, since it negated his saves entirely. But, I was expecting missiles with an -2 to AP would wound SOMETHING. Instead, they all got nulled by saves of sixes. Each. Freaking. Time.

[Berzul]

My group is now going to start playing with Command Rosters, not only 100-point Matched Play Lists.

 

So, I started putting together a starting Command Roster, taking into consideration level progression and what specialist combos I have already tried and found to be great together.

 

COMMAND ROSTER

Tactical Sergeant (Leader) with Auspex and Bolt Pistol

Scout Sergeant (Leader) with Chainsword and Bolt Pistol

 

Tactical Gunner (Sniper) with Missile Launcher

Tactical Gunner (Heavy) with Heavy Bolter

Tactical Gunner (Veteran) with Plasma Gun

Tactical Sergeant (Comms) with Combi Plasma

Intercessor Gunner (Demolitions) with Bolt Rifle and Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

 

Scout with Sniper Rifle and Camo Cloak

Scout with Sniper Rifle and Camo Cloak

Scout with Boltgun

Scout Gunner with Missile Launcher

Scout Gunner with Heavy Bolter

 

 

 

Leader with Auspex + Sniper Gunner with Missile Launcher worked amazingly in my last games.

Comms Sgt + Veteran Gunner, both with plasma, I imagine will work great too. In matched play I used a Sniper Gunner for the PLasma Gun, but as Veterans level up, his skills I feel become awesome so I might just try them out. I might try out a Sgt with Auspex at Comms to pair with the Veteran with Plasma Gun though. Could work well too.

Heavy Bolter Heavy I like for More Bullets. 4 S5 AP-1 shots? Nice. Specially next to the Leader with Auspex.

 

THe rest is just for variety