Kill Team Tactica: Adeptus Astartes

[Panzer]

To be more clear, they changed the wording from 40k to Kill Team and considering FLY and the Harlequins can still ignore vertical movement for charging I think it's done this way for Reiver on purpose unfortunately.

[thewarriorhunter]

I think you're right. So then using that language and logic I would think if you advance you can't ignore vertical distance either.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Indeed. You don't get to ignore vertical movement when falling back or retreating either (though the latter is particularly amusing to imagine!).

[thewarriorhunter]

Well I've been playing them wrong. Assaulting and ignoring vertical distance was nice. That's quite the nerf for me now 

[Berzul]

I wonder, how has anyone fared with an only-tacticals team? I want to try one tomorrow.

 

I have some games against Death Guard and one to break the tie with my Tyranid opponent, and I plan on playing the following:

 

Tactical Sergeant (Leader) with Combi Plasma

 

Tactical Marine Gunner (Sniper) with Plasma Gun

Tactical Marine Gunner (Demolitions) with Missile Launcher

Tactical Marine (Comms) with Bolter

 

Tactical Marine with Bolter

Tactical Marine with Bolter

Tactical Marine with Bolter

 

My idea is pretty straight forward. The plan is to run a mobile squad, with a screen of marines leading the way with 2 plasma guns boosted by a comms specialist with them. Move this guys across the board, trying to keep the enemy at a decent distance and focusing my plasma shots on priority targets. This, supported by a missile launcher in the backlines, firing frag shots with a +1 to wound on clusters of gaunts and pox walkers.

[thewarriorhunter]

I've considered it. A scout with ML/Camo adds another -1 to hit and is one point cheaper, not sure if the -1 to hit is better worse than the save difference between the scout and tactical. I guess if you REALLY needed that point you could swap to a scout.

[thewarriorhunter]

So I'm working on the base 100 points for my Primaris-only KT. I'm not sure if I want to run them with Astartes or DW rules. Lore could go either way. DW models are expensive though... I'm not sure if the SIA is worth the premium. Astartes Primaris list can get 6 models, DW can only get 5.

 

My base list for Astartes is:

 

 

+ Leader +

 

Reiver Sergeant: Bolt carbine, Combat knife, Grapnel Launcher, Leader

 

+ Specialists +

 

Intercessor: Bolt rifle, Comms

 

Intercessor Gunner: Auxiliary grenade launcher, Stalker Bolt Rifle, Sniper

 

Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt rifle, Combat, Power sword

 

+ Non-specialists +

 

Intercessor Gunner: Auxiliary grenade launcher, Bolt rifle

 

Reiver: Combat knife, Grapnel Launcher

 

++ Total: [100pts] ++

 

Thoughts for this list is the Sniper Intercessor hangs out in the back lines with the Comms intercessor. I now have a 30" Grenade sniper rerolling 1's with no range penalty. One of Primaris shortcomings are they have nothing over STR 4 so this gives me that, with some nice AP also. I gave him the stalker because if he does need to fire it'll probably be at range so this increases his reach.

 

Reivers move up with the combat intercessor and try to help him get into combat. His Power sword gives me some -AP for close combat with 4 attacks.

 

Final Intercessor floats around where needed and is mid range fire support. AGL is free so I'll give it to him in case he has a better shot than my sniper.

 

If I went DW the list is pretty similar:

 

+ Leader +

 

Reiver Sergeant Bolt carbine, Combat knife, Grapnel Launcher, Leader

 

+ Specialists +

 

Intercessor: Bolt pistol, Bolt rifle, Comms

 

Intercessor Gunner: Auxiliary grenade launcher, Bolt pistol, Sniper, Stalker bolt rifle

 

Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combat, Power sword

 

+ Non-specialists +

 

Reiver: Bolt carbine, Grapnel Launcher, Heavy bolt pistol

 

++ Total: [100pts] ++

 

Everything remains the same but I lose out of the 4th Intercessor to run mid range support. I realize the SIA is a force multiplier but I don't know what's better. I know I'm hamstringing myself a little bit by only using Primaris but it is what I would like to do initially to see if it's viable.

 

Any thoughts?

[Kilofix]

Thoughts on which 3 specials to take between Heavy, Demo, Sniper and Comms?

 

And what would be the best models / weapons to respectively apply them to?

 

Also, does anyone bother taking a Flamer?

 

Thanks!

[Panzer]

Thoughts on which 3 specials to take between Heavy, Demo, Sniper and Comms?

 

And what would be the best models / weapons to respectively apply them to?

 

Also, does anyone bother taking a Flamer?

 

Thanks!

 

 

All of them are really good so it's really more up to personal preference.

• Demolition helps you to wound your targets so is better on stuff that might have trouble with that like Stalker Bolt rifles, Frag Grenade launcher, Heavy Bolter and Sniper.
• Sniper helps with hitting your targets so it's basically always good for any weapon but I guess you get most out of it with weapons that already wound well like Plasma and Krak Grenade launcher.
• Comms goes in the same direction as Sniper at level 1 basically just that you can also decide to buff another model instead so you could make a Demolition specialist hit better or make a Sniper hit REALLY good
• Heavy is not THAT interesting at level 1 imo. It gives Heavy and Assault weapon wielder a bit more mobility and slightly more damage output by adding another shot to a multi-shot weapon via its Tactic. This one becomes way more interesting at level 2 where you can let your specialist shoot twice and spread hit debuffs around in case you don't kill your targets

 

Flamer are great. Against the right team it can really ruin your opponents day. I've seen whole Ork Boy teams and Tyranid teams getting stopped by one or two flamer guys because they had a bit of bad luck and couldn't get to them. Your Flamer guy could be your Demolition expert since it already hits automatically to increase your chance to wound your targets.

[Disruptor_fe404]

 

Everything remains the same but I lose out of the 4th Intercessor to run mid range support. I realize the SIA is a force multiplier but I don't know what's better. I know I'm hamstringing myself a little bit by only using Primaris but it is what I would like to do initially to see if it's viable.

 

Any thoughts?

 

If your heart is set on Primaris-only, both are viable but in my opinion, the two extra wounds are worth more than SIA, especially since it means your Combat-cessor sergeant can still take a bolt rifle.

 

 

Thoughts on which 3 specials to take between Heavy, Demo, Sniper and Comms?

 

And what would be the best models / weapons to respectively apply them to?

 

Also, does anyone bother taking a Flamer?

 

Thanks!

 

I always take Comms because my lists always feature at least two heavy weapons, and I've had good results with Sniper on a missile launcher or a grav-gun.

 

Take the flamer against Nids and Orks (and GSC). You won't regret it (unless you take nothing else!).

[Berzul]

Sniper with a missile launcher paired with a comms sgt with auspex is a deadly combo.

[Adrenalined]

Sniper with a missile launcher paired with a comms sgt with auspex is a deadly combo.

You running that on a tac or scout? I was thinking scout for the cloak, but maybe the better save is worth more

[Berzul]

 

Sniper with a missile launcher paired with a comms sgt with auspex is a deadly combo.

You running that on a tac or scout? I was thinking scout for the cloak, but maybe the better save is worth more

 

 

I did on a tactical missile, not a scout, but either way would be fine I think.

[Kilofix]

The problem with the Flamer is that I will be unable to take a Plasma Gun. Thoughts?

 

Edit - Also, without any AP, does anyone find Reivers useful at all?

Edited August 21, 2018 by Kilofix

[thewarriorhunter]

I like reivers for mobile area control but only being able to ignore vertical distance for 6 inches of movement really cripples them, IMO. I wish the Grapnel Hook applied for all movement, or at least advances and charges.

 

They're a big threat bubble but I don't know how well they fit. I'm trying to make a primaris only KT and plan on using one as my leader and a second as a harassment troop.

[Disruptor_fe404]

The problem with the Flamer is that I will be unable to take a Plasma Gun. Thoughts?

 

Edit - Also, without any AP, does anyone find Reivers useful at all?

 

I can't really think of any particular faction where you'd want both plasma and flamer. But if you did want both, you can have both a Gunner and a Sergeant with a combi.

 

Reivers are fine for bullying line infantry or anything with an invulnerable save, and for going vertical to either jockey for position with the carbine or threaten to set up a charge for a teammate with the shock grenades.

[Markov Geist]

The problem with the Flamer is that I will be unable to take a Plasma Gun. Thoughts?

 

Edit - Also, without any AP, does anyone find Reivers useful at all?

 

They do have -1 AP on their Heavy Bolt Pistols, for what it's worth.

 

What do you guys think of an Intercessor Gunner (Demolitions) with Stalker Bolt Rifle + Auxil- Granade Launcher?

 

He should be pretty safe in cover and put out decent damage at long range with -2 AP and the bonus to wound that Demolitions Experts get (+1 for obscured targets and an additional +1 from the Lvl 1 tactic.)

Edited August 22, 2018 by Markov Geist

[Berzul]

 

The problem with the Flamer is that I will be unable to take a Plasma Gun. Thoughts?

 

Edit - Also, without any AP, does anyone find Reivers useful at all?

 

They do have -1 AP on their Heavy Bolt Pistols, for what it's worth.

 

What do you guys think of an Intercessor Gunner (Demolitions) with Stalker Bolt Rifle + Auxil- Granade Launcher?

 

He should be pretty safe in cover and put out decent damage at long range with -2 AP and the bonus to wound that Demolitions Experts get (+1 for obscured targets and an additional +1 from the Lvl 1 tactic.)

 

 

They are absolute beasts.

 

My last game I had one with a comms speialist and an auspex leader next to him. Managed to mangle a tyranid team wih krak grenades.

But, even alone, think about it. Hits on 3+. With the intercessor tactic you can offset the obscured penalty, and with another CP you can wound at +2. Even a frag grenade will wound on a 2+ against most targets. And if he is level 2? You can rerroll 1s to hit.

 

Simply amazing.

[thewarriorhunter]

Now you've got me wondering if I should use Demo on my AGL interecessor as opposed to Sniper. I will admit I haven't spent a lot of times looking at tactics because all the games have been learning and I've had more of an opportunity to study them over my opponents. I think I'll make some photo copies of them to keep handy so whomever I'm playing can look over them as well.

[Panzer]

Sniper on AGL is only really worth it if you have a second Intercessor with Stalker bolt rifle who goes Demolition. Also only if you stick with level 1.

[thewarriorhunter]

Primaris are so expensive that in a campaign I don't know if I could go above level one. Once you start adding the level tax I will start losing bodies. and be under pointed unless I have multiple lvl 2 and up units on the board.

[Berzul]

An intercessor gunner with an auxiliary grenade launcher and 2 leves of demolitions will cost you 20 points. That is a fifth of your list, so its a lot. But, from my games last night, I gotta say its worth the investment.

 

My two lists last night were taken from the same command roster, and were as follows:

 

LIST 1

Tactical Sgt (Leader) with Power Sword and Plasma Pistol

Tactical Gunner (Sniper) with Plasma Gun

Tactical (Comms) with Boltgun

Intercessor Gunner (Demolitions) with Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

Tactical Marine

Tactical Marine

Tactical Marine

 

LIST 2

Tactical Sgt (Leader) with Auspex and Plasma Pistol

Tactical Gunner (Sniper) with Missile Launcher

Tactical (Comms) with Boltgun

Intercessor Gunner (Demolitions) with Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

Tactical Marine

Tactical Marine

Tactical Marine

[Panzer]

I can't deny that there's a huge difference between 6 models and 5 models in a team, however I do think many specialists become much more interesting at level 2.

Take a Heavy Bolter Heavy specialist for example. At level 1 he's neat. At level 2 you can let him shoot twice and spread to-hit debuffs on models you didn't kill (hell on models you didn't hit even! You just have to target them!). This increases the survivabilty of the rest of your team a lot.

Or a Combat specialist at level 2 suddenly hitting on 2+ in melee.

Or a Demolition specialist getting either re-roll wound rolls of 1 on his flamer or re-roll hit rolls of 1 on his grenades. Also a 5+++ for 1CP.

Or a Sniper specialist getting +1 to hit rolls when you Ready him (which should be most of the time) while also being able to ignore Obscured for 1CP (so at level 2 he pretty much replaces the Comms specialist that you used to support him).

 

 

I'm pretty sure that in a campaign I'd eventually settle for 5 level 2 models instead of sticking with 6 level 1 models. That being said, leveling up is not optional anyway. The campaign rules state "Check the boxes left to right; when you check a box with an orange outline, your specilist has reached the next level - a Level 1 specialist becomes a Level 2 specialist, and so on." So I guess high level Kill Teams will eventually end up with fewer but more capable models unless you keep replacing them.

On that topic since I couldn't find it right now ... how does one add new specialists to the Command Roster? In the Campaign rules I've only found how to add new models to a fire team but nothing about new specialists. Are you stuck with only the specialists you had at the beginning and once they're gone they're gone? 

[Disruptor_fe404]

You just add them by filling out their data card and adding them to your Command Roster.

[Panzer]

You just add them by filling out their data card and adding them to your Command Roster.

 

Any source for that? I really couldn't find anything about it.