Best Way to Set Up Deathwatch for Kill Team?

[BloodWolves]

I have an unopened boxes of

- Combat Squad (5) Reivers

- Combat Squad (5) Intercessors

- Start Collecting Deathwatch

 

With all this, what would you elect as the most optimal/ versatile build for Kill Team?

 

I have created pure primaris lists but I've read around that you want at least 2 Frag Cannons. And Black Shields w/ Storm Shields are worth their weight as well.

[azn.gamer]

Reivers don't have that many options, and they're easy to model with all options so you can declare what you want depending on the situation. The DW models I recommend magnetizing most of them except 2 Frag Cannons and 1 IHB - you'll probably use these at some point.  This leaves 7 models to magnetize and still gives you more than enough options. Combi-weapons: I'd go one plasma & melta since you'll be able to make two. I prefer plasma, but if you're planning to engage an enemy quickly, the melta is a borderline free kill assuming it hits.  At least 1 model you could permanently attach a storm shield too, and arguably two.  I don't recommend a permanent shotgun.

[Frostglaive]

I don't have any particular builds for you, seeing as I'm still experimenting with my own Deathwatch at this point.

 

Right now I'm finding that, no matter what kind of team I have, it's going to be missing something. Close combat heavy? I just lost out on all those sweet sweet Frag cannons. Multiple Frag cannons? Guess I'm not bringing any Reivers to this fight. What about balanced? Then you have to deal with the typical Space Marine 'jack of all trades master at none' issue. Numbers? Guess you better rely only on SIA because you'll have nothing else.

 

End of the day, what do YOU want your Kill Team to look like? Do you want to be close combat heavy, range heavy, balanced, fit as many models in your team as you can? From what I'm seeing so far, you can make all of these things work. You'll have your weaknesses no matter what, but you just need to play smart (and pray to the almighty Dice Gods).

[Lemondish]

So you have 20 models there, which is just enough for a Killteam roster. I feel like building your roster of 20 guys that you then choose from for your battle forged kill team before the actual game begins seems like the most tactical part of the whole affair. As such, you're going to want to equip your models in a way that gives you choices. Endless choices. 

 

However, there are a few things you'll probably want to avoid...

 

For Intercessors, stay away from the stalker bolt rifle. Your guys are going to be really strong in the middle range and won't be slouches in combat, so don't be afraid to be mobile. I don't think the combat squad box gives you the option to equip a sergeant with a melee weapon, so you might want to consider grabbing one of those chapter upgrade sprues if you can. Make sure you build one with the aux grenade launcher because it's a great tool that lets you reach out with a frag or krak grenade from 30'' with no penalty to hit caused by long range.

 

For the Reivers, you'll probably want to get them up close and personal to make use of their LD penalty aura, which screams pistol and knife. I'd also strongly recommend the grapnel launcher if you can fit it in. 

 

For Vets, go hogwild. Mauls will probably be very powerful for most of your opponents, but swords are no slouches either. Combi weapons, frag cannons, even the Infernus HB will be worth adding to your roster. Shotguns are interesting for their 2 damage potential, but more playtesting is needed for that. The stalker boltgun is a great sniper weapon, but almost any build you can go with from that kit will be of value to some enemy or another. Make use of those options and your roster will be able to take on anybody.

[mjrwaud]

So you have 20 models there, which is just enough for a Killteam roster. I feel like building your roster of 20 guys that you then choose from for your battle forged kill team before the actual game begins seems like the most tactical part of the whole affair. As such, you're going to want to equip your models in a way that gives you choices. Endless choices. 

 

However, there are a few things you'll probably want to avoid...

 

For Intercessors, stay away from the stalker bolt rifle. Your guys are going to be really strong in the middle range and won't be slouches in combat, so don't be afraid to be mobile. I don't think the combat squad box gives you the option to equip a sergeant with a melee weapon, so you might want to consider grabbing one of those chapter upgrade sprues if you can. Make sure you build one with the aux grenade launcher because it's a great tool that lets you reach out with a frag or krak grenade from 30'' with no penalty to hit caused by long range.

 

For the Reivers, you'll probably want to get them up close and personal to make use of their LD penalty aura, which screams pistol and knife. I'd also strongly recommend the grapnel launcher if you can fit it in. 

 

For Vets, go hogwild. Mauls will probably be very powerful for most of your opponents, but swords are no slouches either. Combi weapons, frag cannons, even the Infernus HB will be worth adding to your roster. Shotguns are interesting for their 2 damage potential, but more playtesting is needed for that. The stalker boltgun is a great sniper weapon, but almost any build you can go with from that kit will be of value to some enemy or another. Make use of those options and your roster will be able to take on anybody.

 

I've seen the idea that you need to build a full roster of 20 to choose from a few times now, but looking directly at the rulebook (pg. 62 under "Matched Play") it says:

 

"For a matched play game, you need to create a command roster of up to twenty models available to you, all of which must share the same faction keyword. You'll find a blank command roster on page 206. Write the details of each of your models in the spaces provided. Once the mission has been determined, you then choose a Battle-forged kill team (see below) from the models on your command roster".

 

So there's no reason you need to have twenty models, you can just make 5 that you always bring (for as long as they live), but you may want to pick a few more so that you can swap them in / out depending on the mission / opponent.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I just want to do casual pickup games so I will prolly just design my team on the fly.

[Lemondish]

 

So you have 20 models there, which is just enough for a Killteam roster. I feel like building your roster of 20 guys that you then choose from for your battle forged kill team before the actual game begins seems like the most tactical part of the whole affair. As such, you're going to want to equip your models in a way that gives you choices. Endless choices. 

 

However, there are a few things you'll probably want to avoid...

 

For Intercessors, stay away from the stalker bolt rifle. Your guys are going to be really strong in the middle range and won't be slouches in combat, so don't be afraid to be mobile. I don't think the combat squad box gives you the option to equip a sergeant with a melee weapon, so you might want to consider grabbing one of those chapter upgrade sprues if you can. Make sure you build one with the aux grenade launcher because it's a great tool that lets you reach out with a frag or krak grenade from 30'' with no penalty to hit caused by long range.

 

For the Reivers, you'll probably want to get them up close and personal to make use of their LD penalty aura, which screams pistol and knife. I'd also strongly recommend the grapnel launcher if you can fit it in. 

 

For Vets, go hogwild. Mauls will probably be very powerful for most of your opponents, but swords are no slouches either. Combi weapons, frag cannons, even the Infernus HB will be worth adding to your roster. Shotguns are interesting for their 2 damage potential, but more playtesting is needed for that. The stalker boltgun is a great sniper weapon, but almost any build you can go with from that kit will be of value to some enemy or another. Make use of those options and your roster will be able to take on anybody.

 

I've seen the idea that you need to build a full roster of 20 to choose from a few times now, but looking directly at the rulebook (pg. 62 under "Matched Play") it distinctly says:

 

"For a matched play game, you need to create a command roster of up to twenty models available to you, all of which must share the same faction keyword. You'll find a blank command roster on page 206. Write the details of each of your models in the spaces provided. Once the mission has been determined, you then choose a Battle-forged kill team (see below) from the models on your command roster".

 

So there's absolutely no reason you need to have twenty models, you can just make 5 that you always bring (for as long as they live), but you may want to pick a few more so that you can swap them in / out depending on the mission / opponent.

 

 

 

I mean, there's no reason you actually need twenty models (except that you can), but I don't see the benefit in limiting your collection and options simply because you can limit them. If you've bought the kits to make 20 models, why not make 20 models? I must be missing something here in your argument against what I said because it makes zero sense to me why you'd keep some unbuilt if you've purchased them already...

 

In a thread asking what the most optimal build is, building a roster of 20 marines you can then draw from for before your game begins is the most optimal way to proceed. 

 

 

I just want to do casual pickup games so I will prolly just design my team on the fly.

 

That's an option, too - but like I said above, there's really no need to limit your collection to only 5 - 7 models and that was not what was requested in the original post. If you have the above listed boxes already bought, might as well build the total number you can. 

[Kargrym]

Last weekend I ran

 

1 Sgt Vet, Bolter/Xenophase - Leader

1 Vet Gunner, Infernus Heavy Bolter - Heavy

1 Vet, Bolter/Powersword - Zealot

1 Vet, Stalker Pattern Bolter - Sniper (would also be good as heavy)

1 Vet, Deathwatch Shotgun

1 Vet, Bolter/Powersword

 

Looking back I would:

1) Replace the xenophase for a power sword (unless I thought I was fighting harlequins a lot)

2) Make the Zealot a Blackshield 

3) Make the Gunner Demolition instead of Heavy. He just doesn't need to move much and adding +1 wound to obscured models makes that assault heavy flamer HUGE!!!!

4) Change the Stalker to Comms, he won't move and you can buff yourself.

5) Do not underestimate the shotgun, it is ridiculous good as a forward distraction and mover.

 

 

If your curious I fought Genesteeler, IG and Necrons and brutally wrecked them.

[Black Knight]

How many hits did IG get on your models before you got into CC?

[Lemondish]

Last weekend I ran

 

1 Sgt Vet, Bolter/Xenophase - Leader

1 Vet Gunner, Infernus Heavy Bolter - Heavy

1 Vet, Bolter/Powersword - Zealot

1 Vet, Stalker Pattern Bolter - Sniper (would also be good as heavy)

1 Vet, Deathwatch Shotgun

1 Vet, Bolter/Powersword

 

Looking back I would:

1) Replace the xenophase for a power sword (unless I thought I was fighting harlequins a lot)

2) Make the Zealot a Blackshield 

3) Make the Gunner Demolition instead of Heavy. He just doesn't need to move much and adding +1 wound to obscured models makes that assault heavy flamer HUGE!!!!

4) Change the Stalker to Comms, he won't move and you can buff yourself.

5) Do not underestimate the shotgun, it is ridiculous good as a forward distraction and mover.

 

 

If your curious I fought Genesteeler, IG and Necrons and brutally wrecked them.

 

Real excited about trying the shotgun - thanks for the info!

[Irbis]

For Intercessors, stay away from the stalker bolt rifle. Your guys are going to be really strong in the middle range and won't be slouches in combat, so don't be afraid to be mobile. I don't think the combat squad box gives you the option to equip a sergeant with a melee weapon, so you might want to consider grabbing one of those chapter upgrade sprues if you can. Make sure you build one with the aux grenade launcher because it's a great tool that lets you reach out with a frag or krak grenade from 30'' with no penalty to hit caused by long range.

 

For the Reivers, you'll probably want to get them up close and personal to make use of their LD penalty aura, which screams pistol and knife. I'd also strongly recommend the grapnel launcher if you can fit it in.

 

He has SC box with bazillion spare DW swords, he doesn't need anything else, really. Just give one of them to Intercessor sarge, done. And yeah, unlike in regular 40K, Intercessors with auto rifles are good in KT, though leader might want bolt rifle to stay out of easy enemy range.

 

As for Reivers, I'd take at least one, as sarge, with rifle and blade. Ironically, cheapest build, while sporting insane amount of attacks and excellent gun. Add grapple for mobility if you use dense terrain and you're all set.

[Lemondish]

 

 

 

For Intercessors, stay away from the stalker bolt rifle. Your guys are going to be really strong in the middle range and won't be slouches in combat, so don't be afraid to be mobile. I don't think the combat squad box gives you the option to equip a sergeant with a melee weapon, so you might want to consider grabbing one of those chapter upgrade sprues if you can. Make sure you build one with the aux grenade launcher because it's a great tool that lets you reach out with a frag or krak grenade from 30'' with no penalty to hit caused by long range.

 

For the Reivers, you'll probably want to get them up close and personal to make use of their LD penalty aura, which screams pistol and knife. I'd also strongly recommend the grapnel launcher if you can fit it in.

He has SC box with bazillion spare DW swords, he doesn't need anything else, really. Just give one of them to Intercessor sarge, done. And yeah, unlike in regular 40K, Intercessors with auto rifles are good in KT, though leader might want bolt rifle to stay out of easy enemy range.

 

As for Reivers, I'd take at least one, as sarge, with rifle and blade. Ironically, cheapest build, while sporting insane amount of attacks and excellent gun. Add grapple for mobility if you use dense terrain and you're all set.

Totally forgot about the SC box having so many options and the arms being interchangeable.

 

Also, you've convinced me on the Reiver Sarge - great points.

 

I will disagree that the auto bolt rifle is bad in regular 40k - it's put in some work for me with SIA alongside an Aggressor. Neither here nor there, though :D

[seriade]

From reddit but this makes the most seance to me:

 

You have to understand that you don't begin by creating a command roster, instead you create 3-5 lists to cover against all sorts of play style then you add them together to create a command roster.

 

DW and SM will be the most common faction if TO decides to use a command roster as a format.

 

If you play tyranid or or chaos then DW will always take at least one reiver and one frag storm cannon against you.

If you play harlequin then you will most likely face 3-4 storm shields and a heavy bolter to bypass your 4++.

You need to be able to cover against 5 types of list.

Horde kiting gunline like IG, DE, Eldar or tau drone spam.

Horde melee like Chaos, Death guard, GC and tyranids.

Elite melee like Admech, harlequin, death guard, DE, DW, GC and tyranids.

Elite gunline like SM, DW and Admech.

 

TAC list

 

You can easily create the fifth TAC list yourself from the command roster.

 

++ Kill Team List (Deathwatch) [100pts] ++ Anti Elite gunline

 

+ Leader +

 

Intercessor Sergeant []: Bolt pistol, Bolt rifle, Chainsword, Leader

 

+ Specialists +

 

Intercessor []: Comms, Bolt pistol, Bolt rifle

Veteran Gunner [: Infernus heavy bolter, Sniper, can swap with another frag storm with demolition

Veteran Gunner [: Deathwatch frag cannon

Watch Sergeant []: Storm shield, Xenophase blade, Zealot or Veteran 3++ is important to pressure elite gunline

 

++ Kill Team List (Deathwatch) [98pts] ++ Anti Horde melee

 

+ Leader +

 

Intercessor Sergeant []: Bolt pistol, Power sword

 

+ Specialists +

 

Reiver []: Combat, Combat knife, Grapnel Launcher, Heavy bolt pistol

Reiver [: Combat knife, Comms, Grapnel Launcher, Heavy bolt pistol

Reiver []: Combat knife, Grapnel Launcher, Heavy bolt pistol

Veteran Gunner []: Deathwatch frag cannon, Demolitions

 

++ Kill Team List (Deathwatch) [98pts] ++ Anti Horde gunline

 

+ Leader +

 

Intercessor Sergeant []: Auto bolt rifle, Bolt pistol, Leader

 

+ Specialists +

 

Intercessor []: Auto bolt rifle, Bolt pistol

Intercessor []: Auto bolt rifle, Bolt pistol, Sniper

Intercessor []: Auto bolt rifle, Bolt pistol, Comms

Veteran Gunner []: Boltgun, Deathwatch frag cannon, Demolitions

 

++ Kill Team List (Deathwatch) [99pts] ++ Anti Elite melee and Elite gunline with no mortal wound

 

+ Leader +

 

Watch Sergeant []: Leader, Storm shield, Xenophase blade

 

+ Specialists +

 

Black Shield [: Power maul, Storm shield

Veteran []: Combat, Power maul, Storm shield

Veteran []: Power maul, Storm shield, Zealot

Veteran Gunner []: Infernus heavy bolter, Sniper

 

Command Roster: 18 slots, 2 blank slots to play around with

 

+ Leader +

 

Watch Sergeant []: Leader, Storm shield, Xenophase blade

Intercessor Sergeant []: Leader, Bolt pistol, Bolt rifle, Chainsword

Intercessor Sergeant []: Leader, Bolt pistol, Power sword

Intercessor Sergeant []: Leader, Auto bolt rifle, Bolt pistol

 

+ The rest +

 

Watch Sergeant []: Storm shield, Xenophase blade, Zealot

Black Shield []: Power maul, Storm shield

Veteran []: Combat, Power maul, Storm shield

Veteran []: Power maul, Storm shield, Zealot

Intercessor []: Bolt pistol, Bolt rifle, Comms

Intercessor []: Auto bolt rifle, Bolt pistol

Intercessor []: Auto bolt rifle, Bolt pistol, Sniper

Intercessor []: Auto bolt rifle, Bolt pistol, Comms

Veteran Gunner []: Infernus heavy bolter, Sniper

Veteran Gunner []: Comms, Deathwatch frag cannon

Veteran Gunner []: Boltgun, Deathwatch frag cannon, Demolitions

Reiver [: Combat, Combat knife, Grapnel Launcher, Heavy bolt pistol

Reiver []: Combat knife, Comms, Grapnel Launcher, Heavy bolt pistol

Reiver []: Combat knife, Grapnel Launcher, Heavy bolt pistol

[SwashBuccaneer]

I'm thinking I need to get into Kill Team. The RPG elements and the info in this thread is definitely making me even more curious.

 

Plus I actually have enough models painted up for it as I creep my way to a 2k 40k list. :D

[BloodWolves]

I just dont have much experience with magnets or anything so I'm thinking that if I build models.. they will be permanent with the wargear. Thats why Im polling to see what is the best build? I know that at least 4 of the DW are spoken with 2 Frag Cannons and 2 Infernus Heavy Bolters. But its the other six I dont know what do with. Same with Intercessors.. 2 Bolt Rifles, 2 Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1 Auto bolt rifle. Which one should have the Launcher?

I think with my Reivers I'll do 2 with carbines and 3 with HBP and CK.

[Lemondish]

I just dont have much experience with magnets or anything so I'm thinking that if I build models.. they will be permanent with the wargear. Thats why Im polling to see what is the best build? I know that at least 4 of the DW are spoken with 2 Frag Cannons and 2 Infernus Heavy Bolters. But its the other six I dont know what do with. Same with Intercessors.. 2 Bolt Rifles, 2 Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1 Auto bolt rifle. Which one should have the Launcher?

I think with my Reivers I'll do 2 with carbines and 3 with HBP and CK.

 

To give you some direction, here's a few of the more common builds I've seen for the Vets...

 

Storm Shields and Power Maul on either a regular Vet or a Black Shield

Boltguns and Power Maul/Sword on regular Vets, or with a Xenophase on a sarge

The two heavy weapons gunners you mentioned

Auto bolt rifle Intercessors with aux grenade launcher

 

Some less common but still great looking options...

 

Stalker pattern boltguns (not the stalker bolt rifle) seems great for Snipers

Combi-plasma or combi-flamer look particularly powerful

Shotguns look pretty boss with the two damage attack, potential overwatch strength, and mobility

 

Keep in mind that this game is still really new, but in the short time we've had it there isn't really a clear bad build for Vets, except possibly the Heavy Thunder Hammer due in large part to the way you give up all ranged options to carry that beast around. But that's just speculation for now - could be a dark horse since it's very likely to kill anything it hits. Because there isn't really a bad way to go with Vets, I'd just build whatever you feel comfortable with that fits with the play style you want the majority of your Vets to follow. 

 

For Intercessors, I'd stick with the good old standard bolt rifle or auto bolt rifles - the stalker encourages you to stay put but fires only a single shot, so that's not all that great. Intercessors are pretty durable and pretty effective up close with those 2 attacks, and you'll want the mobility to be able to make that happen. 

 

Your Reivers plan sounds good, too. You could do a sarge with carbine and knife which is a pretty good option to consider. Also consider adding in some grapnel launchers too - they'll be very beneficial for any vertical terrain. 

[Irbis]

 

I will disagree that the auto bolt rifle is bad in regular 40k - it's put in some work for me with SIA alongside an Aggressor. Neither here nor there, though

 

Eh, it has good stats and mobility, but I find the costs of primaris assault rifles in DW kind of bonkers. Same as much better storm bolter? What?

 

This is one thing KT got definitely right, all primaris rifles cost the same (as they really should) so the only consideration is the role you assign to the mini. Now, if only bolt pistols were free too...

 

I just dont have much experience with magnets or anything so I'm thinking that if I build models.. they will be permanent with the wargear. Thats why Im polling to see what is the best build? I know that at least 4 of the DW are spoken with 2 Frag Cannons and 2 Infernus Heavy Bolters. But its the other six I dont know what do with. Same with Intercessors.. 2 Bolt Rifles, 2 Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1 Auto bolt rifle. Which one should have the Launcher?

 

I'd keep auto bolt rifle model mobile so the launcher should go to either bolt rifle guy, or the stalker one. Primaris stalkers aren't that great so by firing GL instead you lose less in opportunity costs. Just make sure reiver sergeant gets rifle/blade, that is optimal build for him IMO.

[Lemondish]

 

 

I will disagree that the auto bolt rifle is bad in regular 40k - it's put in some work for me with SIA alongside an Aggressor. Neither here nor there, though

 

Eh, it has good stats and mobility, but I find the costs of primaris assault rifles in DW kind of bonkers. Same as much better storm bolter? What?

 

This is one thing KT got definitely right, all primaris rifles cost the same (as they really should) so the only consideration is the role you assign to the mini. Now, if only bolt pistols were free too...

 

I don't know what you mean as I'm pretty sure the auto bolt rifle is half the price of storm bolters in 40k, and the bolt rifles are the same price as bolt guns despite being significantly better. 

 

In any case, in Kill team I think it's just as valid an option as it is in 40k, but the stalker is kind of weak still. 

 

Can't agree enough on the Reiver suggestion now.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here is my current list:

 

 

Intercessor Sergeant - Bolt Rifle - Power Sword (Leader)

 

Black Shield - Storm Shield - Power Sword (Combat)

 

Veteran - Infernus Heavy Bolter (Heavy)

 

Veteran - Combi-Melta - Power Sword (Comms)

 

Veteran - Combi-Melta - Power Sword

 

 

99 points on the dot !

[Stiff Crayons]

The Comms + Sniper + Gunner combo can’t be stressed enough. Comms tossing out a +1 to hit to a stalker sniper or sniping frag cannon is dirty as hell, whether it’s negating long range or obscured.

[Lemondish]

Here is my current list:

 

 

Intercessor Sergeant - Bolt Rifle - Power Sword (Leader)

 

Black Shield - Storm Shield - Power Sword (Combat)

 

Veteran - Infernus Heavy Bolter (Heavy)

 

Veteran - Combi-Melta - Power Sword (Comms)

 

Veteran - Combi-Melta - Power Sword

 

 

99 points on the dot !

You finding the melta to be awesome even with the shorter range?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I might switch over to combi plasma - I haven’t had a chance yet to field em.

[mjrwaud]

 

 

So you have 20 models there, which is just enough for a Killteam roster. I feel like building your roster of 20 guys that you then choose from for your battle forged kill team before the actual game begins seems like the most tactical part of the whole affair. As such, you're going to want to equip your models in a way that gives you choices. Endless choices. 

 

However, there are a few things you'll probably want to avoid...

 

For Intercessors, stay away from the stalker bolt rifle. Your guys are going to be really strong in the middle range and won't be slouches in combat, so don't be afraid to be mobile. I don't think the combat squad box gives you the option to equip a sergeant with a melee weapon, so you might want to consider grabbing one of those chapter upgrade sprues if you can. Make sure you build one with the aux grenade launcher because it's a great tool that lets you reach out with a frag or krak grenade from 30'' with no penalty to hit caused by long range.

 

For the Reivers, you'll probably want to get them up close and personal to make use of their LD penalty aura, which screams pistol and knife. I'd also strongly recommend the grapnel launcher if you can fit it in. 

 

For Vets, go hogwild. Mauls will probably be very powerful for most of your opponents, but swords are no slouches either. Combi weapons, frag cannons, even the Infernus HB will be worth adding to your roster. Shotguns are interesting for their 2 damage potential, but more playtesting is needed for that. The stalker boltgun is a great sniper weapon, but almost any build you can go with from that kit will be of value to some enemy or another. Make use of those options and your roster will be able to take on anybody.

 

I've seen the idea that you need to build a full roster of 20 to choose from a few times now, but looking directly at the rulebook (pg. 62 under "Matched Play") it distinctly says:

 

"For a matched play game, you need to create a command roster of up to twenty models available to you, all of which must share the same faction keyword. You'll find a blank command roster on page 206. Write the details of each of your models in the spaces provided. Once the mission has been determined, you then choose a Battle-forged kill team (see below) from the models on your command roster".

 

So there's absolutely no reason you need to have twenty models, you can just make 5 that you always bring (for as long as they live), but you may want to pick a few more so that you can swap them in / out depending on the mission / opponent.

 

 

 

I mean, there's no reason you actually need twenty models (except that you can), but I don't see the benefit in limiting your collection and options simply because you can limit them. If you've bought the kits to make 20 models, why not make 20 models? I must be missing something here in your argument against what I said because it makes zero sense to me why you'd keep some unbuilt if you've purchased them already...

 

In a thread asking what the most optimal build is, building a roster of 20 marines you can then draw from for before your game begins is the most optimal way to proceed. 

 

 

Oh, it wasn't intended as an argument or come off as confrontational, just a bit of rule clarification because I'd seen a little conflicting opinion about how to form a kill team / roster (so I thought it pertinent to the discussion), there can be a big difference between "have to" and "up to" and as I'm sure we're all so familiar with the rules to these games the devil is often in the details.

 

Anyhow, if you've got the spare models (as BloodWolves certainly does) you could almost build one / two of everything you might ever want to include in your roster.

From my experiences so far using only veterans of a few specs and playing against genestealers and harlequins...

 

Watch Sgt. (Leader)

A - Combi-Melta / Xenophase [22 pts] - Reasonably effective at all ranges, have to be right in their face to use the melta but it's BRUTAL... xenophase isn't worth it for this "general" role

B - Storm shield / Power Sword [21 pts] - Very effective in melee, but I'd switch the power sword to power maul / xenophase... but that depends on who you're more likely to face.

? - Stalker pattern boltgun - I'd like to try this and just sit back... kinda wastes his melee potential, but might be more point efficient...

 

Black Shield (Combat / Zealot)

A - Power Maul / Storm Shield (21 pts) - Strength bonus of Power Maul minimizes the benefit of the Zealot charge bonus, so Combat seems better (at least at lvl 1)

B - Power Sword / Bolter (18 pts) - The storm shield is pretty much a must have if you're playing this guy aggressively (ie. as they're made to be played).

 

Veteran Gunner (Heavy / Demolitions)

A - Frag Cannon [21 pts] - Super effective up close and run as a pair with the Black Shield, I'd stick with Demolitions spec. If you're playing aggressive, go with this.

B - Infernus [18] - Very effective over a wider range and unlocks the Hellfire shells tactic for mortal wounds, I'd go Heavy spec (maybe Sniper). If you want to play defensive go with this.

 

Veteran (Comms / Sniper)

A - Stalker Pattern Boltgun / Power Sword [17 pts] - The stalker range and two shots is worth it, although the power sword isn't. Go Comms if you're taking one, Comms + Sniper if two.

 

 Veteran (no spec)

A - Heavy Thunder Hammer [19 pts] - I really want this to work better, but the heavy thunder hammer is basically a huge "kill me" sign... maaaaybe in a completely melee kill team...

B - Boltgun [14 pts / 16 pts] - Pretty effective for being bare bones, I'd give power weapons to make them real "jack of all trades" if you have the spare points.

? - Shotgun [15 pts] - I haven't tried them yet but would really like to, having a bit of trouble fitting them into a team.

[hammer grimblood]

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you have 20 models there, which is just enough for a Killteam roster. I feel like building your roster of 20 guys that you then choose from for your battle forged kill team before the actual game begins seems like the most tactical part of the whole affair. As such, you're going to want to equip your models in a way that gives you choices. Endless choices.

 

However, there are a few things you'll probably want to avoid...

 

For Intercessors, stay away from the stalker bolt rifle. Your guys are going to be really strong in the middle range and won't be slouches in combat, so don't be afraid to be mobile. I don't think the combat squad box gives you the option to equip a sergeant with a melee weapon, so you might want to consider grabbing one of those chapter upgrade sprues if you can. Make sure you build one with the aux grenade launcher because it's a great tool that lets you reach out with a frag or krak grenade from 30'' with no penalty to hit caused by long range.

 

For the Reivers, you'll probably want to get them up close and personal to make use of their LD penalty aura, which screams pistol and knife. I'd also strongly recommend the grapnel launcher if you can fit it in.

 

For Vets, go hogwild. Mauls will probably be very powerful for most of your opponents, but swords are no slouches either. Combi weapons, frag cannons, even the Infernus HB will be worth adding to your roster. Shotguns are interesting for their 2 damage potential, but more playtesting is needed for that. The stalker boltgun is a great sniper weapon, but almost any build you can go with from that kit will be of value to some enemy or another. Make use of those options and your roster will be able to take on anybody.

I've seen the idea that you need to build a full roster of 20 to choose from a few times now, but looking directly at the rulebook (pg. 62 under "Matched Play") it distinctly says:

 

"For a matched play game, you need to create a command roster of up to twenty models available to you, all of which must share the same faction keyword. You'll find a blank command roster on page 206. Write the details of each of your models in the spaces provided. Once the mission has been determined, you then choose a Battle-forged kill team (see below) from the models on your command roster".

 

So there's absolutely no reason you need to have twenty models, you can just make 5 that you always bring (for as long as they live), but you may want to pick a few more so that you can swap them in / out depending on the mission / opponent.

 

I mean, there's no reason you actually need twenty models (except that you can), but I don't see the benefit in limiting your collection and options simply because you can limit them. If you've bought the kits to make 20 models, why not make 20 models? I must be missing something here in your argument against what I said because it makes zero sense to me why you'd keep some unbuilt if you've purchased them already...

 

In a thread asking what the most optimal build is, building a roster of 20 marines you can then draw from for before your game begins is the most optimal way to proceed.

Oh, it wasn't intended as an argument or come off as confrontational, just a bit of rule clarification because I'd seen a little conflicting opinion about how to form a kill team / roster (so I thought it pertinent to the discussion), there can be a big difference between "have to" and "up to" and as I'm sure we're all so familiar with the rules to these games the devil is often in the details.

 

Anyhow, if you've got the spare models (as BloodWolves certainly does) you could almost build one / two of everything you might ever want to include in your roster.

From my experiences so far using only veterans of a few specs and playing against genestealers and harlequins...

 

Watch Sgt. (Leader)

A - Combi-Melta / Xenophase [22 pts] - Reasonably effective at all ranges, have to be right in their face to use the melta but it's BRUTAL... xenophase isn't worth it for this "general" role

B - Storm shield / Power Sword [21 pts] - Very effective in melee, but I'd switch the power sword to power maul / xenophase... but that depends on who you're more likely to face.

? - Stalker pattern boltgun - I'd like to try this and just sit back... kinda wastes his melee potential, but might be more point efficient...

 

Black Shield (Combat / Zealot)

A - Power Maul / Storm Shield (21 pts) - Strength bonus of Power Maul minimizes the benefit of the Zealot charge bonus, so Combat seems better (at least at lvl 1)

B - Power Sword / Bolter (18 pts) - The storm shield is pretty much a must have if you're playing this guy aggressively (ie. as they're made to be played).

 

Veteran Gunner (Heavy / Demolitions)

A - Frag Cannon [21 pts] - Super effective up close and run as a pair with the Black Shield, I'd stick with Demolitions spec. If you're playing aggressive, go with this.

B - Infernus [18] - Very effective over a wider range and unlocks the Hellfire shells tactic for mortal wounds, I'd go Heavy spec (maybe Sniper). If you want to play defensive go with this.

 

Veteran (Comms / Sniper)

A - Stalker Pattern Boltgun / Power Sword [17 pts] - The stalker range and two shots is worth it, although the power sword isn't. Go Comms if you're taking one, Comms + Sniper if two.

 

Veteran (no spec)

A - Heavy Thunder Hammer [19 pts] - I really want this to work better, but the heavy thunder hammer is basically a huge "kill me" sign... maaaaybe in a completely melee kill team...

B - Boltgun [14 pts / 16 pts] - Pretty effective for being bare bones, I'd give power weapons to make them real "jack of all trades" if you have the spare points.

? - Shotgun [15 pts] - I haven't tried them yet but would really like to, having a bit of trouble fitting them into a team.

Thanks for the write up. I’ll add a few points from my games against Space Marines and Heretics. I haven’t really found a use for the Xenophase and against most opponents wished I just had the Sword instead to save that extra point. Combi melta is definitely my preference over plasma. Plasma was a nice thing to have but unless you’re overcharging you’re not getting that sweet multiple damage and it really cements your Sgt’s Power weapon as a defensive option.

 

Blackshield needs a shield, find a chokepoint and stick him there to hold his fellow marines literally all day. My Blackshield held off 2 Reivers and a Scout all with combat blades for 3 rounds while he slowly bled them dry with flesh wounds.

 

Frag Cannon is nice but I played mine too aggressively and he quickly became the centre of attention. Do you guys stick with the shells the whole game, saving frag rounds for overwatch? I found that frag rounds were actually more effective than the shells although you have to be within 8”.

 

Infernus looked bad at first IMO but targetting single models and the hellfire strategem makes it a steal.

 

Shotgun gave mixed results. Overwatch with Wrymbreath shells was nice but the Xenopurge rounds never wounded so I was left with the Cryptclearer rounds that were effective but at 1 dmg and Str 4. It so far isn’t worth taking instead of a standard bolter, despite the fact it looks like it was made for close quarters combat.

[BloodWolves]

Well I think you could just paint the Xenoblade silver and say its a power sword.

I agree.. I feel like they didnt make shotguns as devastating as they should be for CQC.