Primaris Units/ vehicles, wishtheory list

[Red_Shift]

@Boldthreat that's the artwork! Thanks for linking it.

Gw could just get round the ancient terminator armour/relic thing by just saying great crusade era marines were primaris sized and mass produced geneseed/heresy related shenanigans resulted in a gradual stumping but crawl has the original emperor stamped geneseed. There are examples in the fiction of chaos marines telling loyalists they are a shadow of those that fought in the heresy. Maybe it's true!

[Guest MistaGav]

I'm in agreement that I don't want to see more of the same things but up-scaled to Primaris size. All that really does is emphasis the fears that GW would get rid of older marines in favour of Primaris. If the latest rumour is true then at least the two types will co-exist alongside each other. I too like the idea of more specialised and focused units rather than generalists. That being said, I have a few things I'd like to see. :P

 

- Plastic Primaris techmarine

- Dual Captain/Lieutenant kit in Gravis/Inceptor armour

- Mortis Redemptor dreadnought with two HSGC/MPC or something else...

- Repulsor without the top turret, bit cheaper in

- Some kind of plastic turret kit like the Tarantula but with newer weapons

- Some sort of artillery weapon

- Primaris dedicated flyer/transport

[slitth]

To be completely honest I think that the codex need to be reworked so it focused on amour types and not primaris vs not primaris.

So a space marine is just a space marine, putting in different versions of space marine is still in the long run.

After all primaris should either replace the old or be purge because of an unknown error.

 

As such I would expect to see primaris size assault marines and bikes.

The removal of the old tactical squads.

Perhaps a update to the Devastators,

It would be cool if you could break up the squad and add Devastators to other units with same type amour.

[Ishagu]

Let's not discuss the Primaris v normal marine dynamic,or try to re-write the new lore.

 

We don't want repeated units from the old lines because they don't even work that well in honesty.

[chapter master 454]

GW put themselves in a corner in terms of direction.

 

No company wants to admit that they made an error with a product, especially GW with the Primaris line. I am not saying the Primaris are a bad idea, they have good possible avenues to explore certain aspects of marine creation we haven't seen before (the concept that they are made from older, less used gene seed would be an interesting dynamic to look at).

 

The main issue is that in terms of balance, Primaris don't feel like Super-Marines, just what marines should of been. Now if GW want to turn around and say "yea, you've been playing with a 10k year degrading gene-seed version of these guys. This is what true astartes were like back in the heresy" then maybe we can reconcile ourselves a little. However it does mean at that point they would be saying "yea, Oldstartes are out of date and getting replaced" which again...well you see the problem.

 

One way or another, one side will HAVE to yield and cease to exist as we know it now. In terms of lore, possibly they can swerve around it with "Cawl then stopped being a total spanner and gave out the gene seeds he was using to the appropriate chapters and they all were able to re-establish their former glory and power of standard marines" but...that would feel lazy but like I said, GW went so hard into a corner they will be double track drifting to get out of it.

 

 

As for Primaris: Stop the segregation of Primaris/non-Primaris. Really the problem with wanting more Primaris is they are such a heavily condensed army. I mean, look at what they have: Aggressors are their all round what terminators should of been unit (hey, that's a theme), Reivers are...well not sure...they are like some weird assault squad without packs, Interceptors are solid dakka (and plasma if needed), Hellblasters need no introduction, intercessors are the best troop choice and the HQs are all just +1 wound on what we normally have now. What could they want? Only thing really is a cheaper transport and that is about it. Even then, the Repulsor only barely doesn't out-do a land raider.

[Panzer]

I don't feel like GW put themselves in a corner with Primaris. More a one-way street. They pretty much have to keep going with Primaris now since everything else would be a way too huge retcon. That's not a bad thing tho. Primaris are not a bad thing so following that one-way street is not a bad thing. It's simply where things are heading in the future.

And yes I do fully believe that GW will eventually stop supporting regular Marines with more than the occasional Codex Approved adjustments so people can keep playing with their old models while they focus on Primaris Marines.

 

 

Anyway back to the topic. I don't really have much to contribute to here to be honest. Marines aren't exactly lacking anything specific so for Primaris I mostly want the same stuff Marines already have access to. Some artillery, some flyer, some cavalry (bikes preferably), some melee units ... the usual stuff.

[Robbienw]

I think it’s good they are taking the primaris in their own direction. They are not a replacement for classic marines and this will further drive that home.

 

It would be good if they did some more legion type stuff, like a basilisk style artillery piece, guys with shields and axes, maybe even some large rapier style crewed weapon platforms with several weapon options. Maybe a heavily armoured bodyguard with halberds who protect gulliman. Primaris as a separate thing seem more like a tough to shift battle line army who are good at attrition fighting/horde extermination and they should make more units along that theme.

 

One thing they need to do is have a serious look at the style they are going for with the primaris though, cause they are not great looking minis style wise and the 3 comedy units are just ugly. IMO of course.

 

Any new units with standard looking armour need to be streamlined a bit. Not necessarily like mk7, but less busy. Take away the extra armour plates on the legs that makes them look fat, and reduced the size of their ridiculously oversized feet and greaves. Make the backpacks less top heavy and a bit longer. The helmet needs a redesign as well. The top part with the line over the ‘ears’ is cool, but the faceplate is not; they tried to make it a bit like mk4, because mk4 is cool, and ruined it. I’d much prefer a mk6 inspired look or the ‘crusader’ style of faceplate similar to grey knight faceplates.

 

Any future light armoured units that look similar to reivers need two things changed. No 3/4 length capri shorts style legs and no skull faceplates. They should look good without these things.

 

As for heavy armoured units, they need to do something new and more streamlined. Just forget gravis armour altogether it looks terrible and magnified the massive feet of tacticus mk10 to an even greater level, whilst adding more other silly features like the bucket around the head. Accept it’s a poor design like centurions and leave it alone in future. Also none of the silly crotch relics either, because you can’t do the groin area properly!

[Dr. Clock]

Only thing I really want to see is Primaris Bikes. I'm using White Scars Tactics for my Primaris force, and I flat out refuse to buy Oldmarine bikes for my Storm Lords as my Company fluff is basically that all the remaining Oldmarines are tied up as pilots and ship crew. I kind of like the idea that there are certain roles that Primaris can't fill, as it open up some more interesting 'logistics' discussions to work into army fluff.

 

So in essence my fluff is that a Company of Storm Lords was decimated and ended up on the Terra side of the Cicatrix, so they're been re-equipped with Primaris to fill the frontline, and then used their void expertise and wayfaring knowledge to make their way back across the Cicatrix. There, they have met up with some Deathwatch, which I use as allies for them in larger games... All this means that currently my Storm Lords contain exactly one Oldmarine - who pilots a Xiphon.

 

I've got 2x3 Inceptors for a FA role, and some Reivers for a touch of assault fun, but it's disappointing currently that I can't use the 'Bikes' portion of the Tactics without getting into the Oldmarines style. Give me a unit of grav-bikes, and I'll buy two in a flash!

 

Also, I think something that's basically a Landspeeder Storm for Primaris marines would be super - Give it a las-talon or plasma thingy, a few frag launchers, and let it transport 5 (6?) Primaris marines, but make it faster and lighter than the Repulsor - again, I'd be in for 2.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Boldthreat]

The thing is, are the Primaris units a departure from traditional space marine units?

 

Intercessors = Horus Heresy Tacticals with a proper stat line and a configurable bolt gun.

 

Hellblasters = Horus Heresy Heavy Support Squad with a proper stat line and a configurable plasma gun.

 

Aggressors = Centurion equivalent unit.

 

Inceptors = on the surface this seems unique but they are really a weird landspeeder/bike combination unit. Which is cool.

 

Redemptor = primaris dreadnaught.

 

Repulsor = a predator/landraider hybrid.

 

These units arent radical departures from Space Marine traditional. That's why I find the latest rumor to be kind of jarring that the next release will be "new".

 

I understand the argument of not wanting to ape the bloated line of traditional units. But I do feel that iconic space marine units need a primaris version.

 

Assault Squad - no reiver crap (good idea, good mechanics, poor model and art and location on force chart... They should have worn Mk 10 armor and had jump packs... No stupid grapling hooks or glider fins).

 

Terminators = I'm shocked that this isnt more of a point of contention. The Space Marine Terminator is THE Iconic space marine unit. Aggressors don't have the feel. Who would buy a space hulk game with deathwing Aggressors. Not that I think Aggressors look bad, on the contrary I like them. But they are not Terminators. The art that I posted above from deviant art is flat out perfect. Now those guys painted in Deathwing colors would make a proper Dark Angels 1st Company. Would they step on Aggressors or Captains in Gravis armor? Yeah probably. What a shame.

 

We need a cheaper Transport. But this is pramaris so we need to apparently reinvent the wheel via combining ideas like the Inceptors. So I think a Rhino/drop pod hybrid would be perfect. It starts in high orbit like the Inceptors, in its movement phase it can drop anywhere on the board outside of 9 inches from and enemy. At that point it moves like the repulsor.

 

Since we are also aping Horus Heresy units. I think a Primaris Breacher unit is also something that is needed and would sell really well. Could you imagine Breachers with the Primaris statline and boarding shields. Talk about a hard to shift defensive unit. But again that might step on the toe of Aggressors. Maybe give them all primaris melta guns. That way they make sense as a boarding unit and can double as close range vehicle killers. Actually I really like that! These ideas are free GW!

[Panzer]

 

One thing they need to do is have a serious look at the style they are going for with the primaris though, cause they are not great looking minis style wise and the 3 comedy units are just ugly. IMO of course.

 

Any new units with standard looking armour need to be streamlined a bit. Not necessarily like mk7, but less busy. Take away the extra armour plates on the legs that makes them look fat, and reduced the size of their ridiculously oversized feet and greaves. Make the backpacks less top heavy and a bit longer. The helmet needs a redesign as well. The top part with the line over the ‘ears’ is cool, but the faceplate is not; they tried to make it a bit like mk4, because mk4 is cool, and ruined it. I’d much prefer a mk6 inspired look or the ‘crusader’ style of faceplate similar to grey knight faceplates.

 

Any future light armoured units that look similar to reivers need two things changed. No 3/4 length capri shorts style legs and no skull faceplates. They should look good without these things.

 

As for heavy armoured units, they need to do something new and more streamlined. Just forget gravis armour altogether it looks terrible and magnified the massive feet of tacticus mk10 to an even greater level, whilst adding more other silly features like the bucket around the head. Accept it’s a poor design like centurions and leave it alone in future. Also none of the silly crotch relics either, because you can’t do the groin area properly!

 

You could just have said you really don't like any of the Primaris armour design choices lol

I hope you realise that it's more than likely that you'll be disappointed with any future Primaris releases as well considering how much you dislike them visually.

 

 

Inceptors = on the surface this seems unique but they are really a weird landspeeder/bike combination unit. Which is cool.

 

 

I'm really not sure how people get that idea. Inceptors are literally Jump Pack Marines with +1T and heavier weaponry.

Bikes are way faster, don't have FLY, can't deep strike and aren't Infantry so they don't get as easily cover and can't go up ruins. Land Speeder are even faster than Bikes, can't deep strike and aren't Infantry either so don't get as easily cover again. Both, Bikes and Landspeeder, are visually and crunch-wise a good bit further away from Inceptors than regular JP Marines.

[Boldthreat]

I see your point SF. But I think Inceptors are more of a landspeeder bike replacement unit than an assault Squad replacement. I think their deepstriking mechanic is away to get their firepower where it's needed as opposed to speed.

 

Of course I could be justifying it that way because I want a proper Mk x assault Squad with chainswords. I'll readily admit that lol!

 

And visually, to me, the Inceptor even looks like Cawl just wrapped a landspeeder around a space marine and split up the twin linked heavy bolter into two separate guns. I know it's my own interpretation but it may be why I love them so much heh!

[Ishagu]

I don't think Aggressors are a centurions like unit. They are Terminators with better bolters if anything.

 

The Inceptors are a Shooty assault squad, but they work really well so I'm happy with them. They are different in the fact that they don't have a cc focus.

 

I really want a hovering Sicaran with loads of high powered weapons, and fast moving cc units.

[Panzer]

Imo Aggressors are as much Terminators as they are Centurions ... as much as they are their own thing.

Not as slow as Centurions, not as heavily armed as Centurions but also not as slow as Terminators, no deep strike like Terminators and more heavily armed than Terminators.

[Boldthreat]

That is true Ishagu. Aggressors are practically Terminators with better bolters. But so are Centurions really. I think your argument is fundamentally correct regarding Primaris Terminators, I just believe it would be a real shame if we don't get true Primaris Terminators.

 

I love Aggressors, but they just visually are not Terminators. Heck ultramarine Aggressors don't have white helmets and dark angel Aggressors aren't Deathwing. So in my mind something has to fill that space. There has to be a Terminator unit coming. It's too iconic. The same could be said about bikes. Ravenwing and to a lesser extent the White Scars are specialized on mounted warfare. There has to be a unit to ultimately do these archtypics justice. All though the Ravenwing being an all elite Inceptor Company would be awesome.

 

I just don't see us not getting bikes or Terminators. Primaris are new and exciting but they aren't that "new". I don't buy the idea that Primaris won't eventually replace the traditional space marines. But I realize my argument is less about what the Primaris need tacically and more about what they are lacking iconically. But I readily admit there maybe options that combine both avenues I find difficult to fathom.

[Ishagu]

Primaris can be a more fleshed out range without replacing the old line.

 

The fact that they have a unique keyword is basically confirmation that they'll have a separate book in the future. The current codex is utterly bizarre in the way it doesn't allow the units to mix, would have been better to release them in their own book from the offset, probably.

 

Primaris are lacking characters, tanks, flyers, fast moving cc units and strategems. A main battle tank, cheaper transport and fast cc units are probably the biggest gaps in the range. A point drop of the Repulsors might solve the transport issue however. I don't feel the Primaris would suit a cheap, basic vehicle like the Rhino - they seem to be a very elite, high tech force that is visually different from other Imperial factions - Not as ostentatious as existing elite arms of the Imperium military, but very different from the Guard aesthetic.

 

The truth is they resemble a force from before the Heresy, one governed by the Imperial Truth,(it's personally why I'm so on board with them) .

 

The thing about the normal range of marines is how bloated it is (something I keep repeating) and we don't need 30 new kits to fill the gaps.

 

Inceptors can indeed do the job of both Assault Marines and a Land speeder for example.

 

We don't need 3 Dreadnought kits that are almost identical, we don't need 3 Terminator variants that literally do the same thing. We don't need two jump pack infantry types, one which is better in every way and invalidating of the other.

 

Maybe we'll get hybrids of units, like the Inceptors or Aggressors. Maybe we'll see really specialised options like what the xenos factions have. I don't want to see the same models with different weapon options like the existing line. I love the fact the Inceptors and Reivers already look so different from the basic troops, so I have hope in seeing really interesting looking units in the future.

[Subtleknife]

Surely there has to be Primaris Lt, Primaris Flag Bearer and Primaris Capt in gravis released sometime soon as the only way to get these units is DI to my knowledge. I would be interested to know if they will expand the equipment for the lt/gravis capt and if it will be a new model

[Boldthreat]

Surely we will be getting Primaris Lts, ancients, and Gravis Captains in stand alone kits. The only way to get them is in easy to build formats in box sets. Hopefully when that happens each unit will also get expanded options... But thats a long shot seeing what the Captain came with. Which is ok. I'm surprised they haven't been offered yet. The 8th edition box set is great, but I want to see the stand alone versions.

[Robbienw]

I hope you realise that it's more than likely that you'll be disappointed with any future Primaris releases as well considering how much you dislike them visually.

Quite possibly. It can’t get any worse though surely, nothing can be as bad as the the gravis units :lol:

 

I do like the repulsor though and the redemptor is not bad, so there could be some hope for the vehicles.

[Red_Shift]

Thank you, Boldthreat for putting my thoughts re terminators into prose.

 

Robbie' s ideas re. Weapon platforms and a basilisk equivalent are interesting.

 

I wonder if cawl, being of heresy vintage, has designed primaris to all be similar to heresy era unit types? A floating sicarian would be awesome.

[RandomMarine]

Floating Spartan and landspeeder storm equivalent for 5 man squad with a twin bolt rifle weapon mount and frag launchers and a kit like the old marine captain kit to build lieutenants and ancient

[chapter master 454]

If Primaris get their own codex I will be shocked. However I will comment that it does feel a little odd how much they feel like they should be their own codex yet shouldn't at the same time.

 

I have mixed feelings for Primaris. One hand, I do like them but on the other I see in them what marines should of been all along. Feels like an EA business decision you know? "...Then we release a patch 1 year later, making the game what it should be but instead of being just a patch, we will package it as a DLC and MAKE MORE MONEY!"

Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth really. Again, I am someone who likes Primaris but from a sense of looking at the game and seeing what reasons there could of been for these models, almost feels like a legacy of their former-CEO, the remnants of his pipelines he put down. I only hope to see the Primaris line gain support but I also want to see some love for the old startes as now they have an important part of the lore tied to them.

 

My only problem with Primaris Artillery units, feels like you are wasting resources on things you aren't going to use. "Hey, lets have our massive resource intensive soldier man artillery pieces miles away that guardsman could of been doing". Rapier Batteries and Thunderfires make some sense as the marines are only moving the Rapier around like a detached heavy weapon in support of other units or required a specialist to man.

I feel like they need a battle tank and a cheap transport but something in me looks at the repulsor and thinks it was meant as an all in one package. I mean...can we honestly say it ISN'T a battle tank? With that many guns, 2 of which aren't exactly light, it resembles something like a chimera on steroids, steroids then some super soldier serum!

 

Would say bikes are cool but why? The Interceptors can achieve what bikes do and I agree with the idea they are a odd fusion of bike/land speeder/assault. Their movement options are on par with bikes, their abilities and stats are better and give reason to charge and their weapons have such firepower and stats it's hard to call them "side arms" in the typical sense. Reivers are clearly the losers of the Primaris line really, not offering much other than ineffective melee that to be fair is handled well enough by intercessors and interceptors (if they had some bespoke melee weapon that had AP1 or something like that they might of had a chance).

 

Aggressors are just an all in one package of Terminator meets Centurion. Similar to Interceptors in relation to fast attack analogues, the Aggressors come packing with things to look at. Their weapons alone is an all you can kill buffet, whether they come with their boltstorms or flamers they can shoot anything that isn't armour to bits and what they can't shoot, their power fists handle the rest really. Couple that with their heightened toughness and wound count from being Gravis Primaris, these guys really take a licking, keep on ticking!

 

Intercessors just...well...no. Moving on, we all know how good these guys are (and I LOVE their grenade launcher. My vote for best wargear in the Primaris line).

 

Hellblasters are just good. I mean, yea they lack the D6 damage range of lascannons but when you can point at a tank and ask it how many times can it take 2 wounds a go, many don't last long. Get them in rapid fire range and soon your armour problems just go away. Sadly, Intercessors do have the benefit that at the very least their heavy option is worth some merit, these guys just do best when kept vanilla.

 

Primaris Characters however do lack any real charm or fun. Personally, my biggest gripe with them to be honest. None of them bring anything unique to the table other than being "that HQ option +1 wound" and while yea, some have new wargear it doesn't exactly stand out enough nor is it the core reason to take them, in fact you would be better served saving some points and taking the old startes version for both more options and less points really (only exception is gravis armour captain, he does have a place but again it is niche).

 

I mean, look at that range of units and what could you add really? A flyer sure and a cheap transport but if you added anything you could be called out for "bloating" the line as we seem to keep calling out here and there. You can maybe sneak in a variant of hellblasters that use some crazy miniaturised onslaught gatling cannon...in fact that would be awesome, with the side option of a lascannon possibly (Primaris-ised ofcourse so likely Heavy 2 with lascannon stats! XD I jest).

 

Personally, I would be content with primaris more so if we just got more options with their characters really. Even if it was just a small selection of options. Just enough so we don't all have the same model 50 times over.

[Ishagu]

Look at how generic the Stormcast were upon release, and how much more characterful they've become with each expansion of the range. I think we'll probably get some very interesting characters in future, named ones too.

 

I'd love to see new turret options for the Repulsor and new arm options for the Redemptors, this is something Forgeworld could and should be doing.

 

Also, why do you think it would be a bad thing if Primaris got their own book? They have no integration with normal marines in the book, they don't share transports, strategems or unit design. The Marine codex is extremely bloated and it will get worse with the additions of new unis. It's time for an independendantly balanced codex for these guys.

[Basteala]

Please Ishagu, don't compare awesome terminators to poor potato armour

 

Honestly, I agree with him--at least as a Dark Angels player. Aggressors are 37ppm with Boltstorm Gauntlers. iirc Terminators are low 40s with the standard storm bolter/power fist loadout. Terminators have less shots (An Aggressor should average 9, and can fire twice if stationary), and Terminators are T4. They have the same amount of attacks. They are slower since Aggressors can advance with impunity. Termi's have a 2+ and a 5++. In Dark Angels....the 5++ is useless because odds are you're running Azrael for the 4++. So...you trade the dakka and toughness for +1 to your armor save, which you rarely get to use because terminators are probably going to invite high AP weapons.

 

I mean...you can deep strike termis and they can go into a Stormraven, I guess? They have better transport options. So do tac marines--that doesn't make them good.

 

If you want to say Primaris lore is weak, go for it. The only interesting thing I've seen is all the messed up stuff DA subjects their primaris to--but in terms of game mechanics? It's not even a question. Even in vanilla marines I can see Aggressors having situational uses....that's better than no use at all.

[Sete]

@Basteala, I'm not talking about rules, but looks. Termies always had underwhelming rules, but they look better than aggressors.

[Panzer]

Dunno I quite like the looks of Flamer Aggressors but really dislike the look of most Terminator models. Partly because they're so old by now.