mc warhammer Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) #thestruggleisreal i don't think that's something you can fairly blame on others, dude. it's less a presumption than working with what is given. you say you're disappointed and that every story is a monotonous replication of the last. i mean, even if i loved something, i don't know if i would buy it 53 times. maybe i've just missed out on the positive posts but i don't really know if the onus is on others to balance out your (not baseless) complaints by imagining you lovingly stroking the cover to battle of the abyss every night before bed time whispering "you disappoint and complete me" Edited August 16, 2018 by mc warhammer Marshal Loss, DarkChaplain and Lord_Caerolion 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Lunkhead Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Because attrition is not something that happens to Chaos. We cannot allow basic principles of warfare get in a way of storytelling, after all. Have you read Slaves to Darkness? Especially considering your comments on Horus and the traitors winning in short order? Really? So the Siege is cancelled and loyalist can finally have an important strategic victory? No? Thought so. Beta-Garmon does not matter. It's a spectacle piece with negligible impact on the storyline. I am not going to pretend otherwise. Pssh, why would I want to read something about WWII? The Axis powers obviously lose. Hilarious and completely ignorant of the fact that most WWII stories tell either A) Character stories of very small groups of people who have little relevance to the greater war being played out or Tell stories of fictionalised operations that can either fail or succeed depending on the author's whim. @MrDarth respect your opinion and can understand to some extent why you say what you do but have to say by your rationale there is little or no reason to read any of the Siege of Terra books because we know what the outcome is going to be. We know that Dorn wants to use Beta Garmon to slow down Horus' approach to terra and delay his forces sufficiently to allow time for loyalist reinforcements to reach them. What would be nice twist is if the loyalists actually won against Horus. Perhaps a Pyrrhic victory at great cost but nonetheless something that forces the Warmaster to change his plans and head to Terra before he is actually ready or had planned? They are not going to all die, and that will have to count for victory, because this is Horus Heresy. You know why I have cynical approach to this book? I've read the entirety of Horus Heresy. All of it. Every. Single. :cussing. Piece. Every numbered book, every novella, every short story, every audio drama. It's the same story almost every time. No variation. Chaos. Will. Win. No matter how contrived it has to be, if we have to ignore continuity or just use outright diabolous ex machinas that will never show up again. Come on. Forces of Horus have fought and suffered attrition for ten years. Landing operations followed by siege action are literally the single most damaging operations for the attacker in existence. Horus will to two of them, in quick succession, win one, and almost win another. It will not possibly happen without contrivance, and I'm not going to pretend that I'm going to like it. "But Darth, the book hasn't been released yet..." Yeah, I told myself that too for the last twenty times, and was disappointed in every single instance, with the exception of Praetorian of Dorn, which I will forever champion as the way balanced conflict should be written in 40k. I hope the book will have good character moments, and that those will make it serviceable. The war? There is nothing that interests about Beta-Garmon conflict in and of itself, and that's assuming Haley has chops to pull it off in satisfying fashion, which is not something I have seen in his large scale conflicts up until this point. Yes, yes, I am bitter and cynical, and you are all excited that the conflict will actually get covered. Very good. Enjoy that feeling. It is quite pleasant. I will remain cynical until proven otherwise, because I rather be pleasantly surprised, then yet again disappointed. That is all I have to say on the matter. Have a nice day. So..... I get that you are a bit disappointed in the HH series..... Like you, I've slogged my way through every novel, novella, short story, comic book, and audio drama. And like any veteran of any war I'm bone tired, numb, and looking forward to the end so I can go home. There have been great stories, bad stories, and everything in between. And if I was in charge of the HH series campaign I would have handled it differently..... but I'm not. I see the next battle, which is Titan Death, and like any weary veteran I expect the worst but hope for the best..... I want to see this thing to the end.... it just might surprise me. Every now and then I get a little surprised still..... sometimes a good surprise, sometimes a bad surprise. I guess I just don't understand your passionate cynicism...… do you feel betrayed by BL?..... What is it?...…. I'm not mocking you, I'm just trying to understand your point. Nothing you say is untrue.... but to me none of it is surprising or makes me angry or bitter...… I could sort of see the writing on the wall by the time Battle For The Abyss came out..... the HH series was going to be a inconsistent ride. So.... what would you have done to make it better? What would make Titan Death a great novel for you? How would you salvage this thing? I'd really like to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Which significang tactical victories do the Loyalists achieve during the Heresy? Prospero Ultramar (kinda...in the long-run, UM are kept from Terra though) Signus Thramas Alaxxes? Some of the WS battles during their four-year run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwell84 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Which significang tactical victories do the Loyalists achieve during the Heresy? Prospero Ultramar (kinda...in the long-run, UM are kept from Terra though) Signus Thramas Alaxxes? Some of the WS battles during their four-year run Autek Mor's campaign against traitor resource worlds, including the razing of Bodt The Xana Incursion Tallarn Sotha Pluto Davin and the ending of the Ruinstorm Phall could be counted as a long-term loyalist victory as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Dark Angels destroying Barbarus and Chemos Manchu warlord 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Pretty sure xana was a catastrophic failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZebraM Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Which significang tactical victories do the Loyalists achieve during the Heresy? Prospero Ultramar (kinda...in the long-run, UM are kept from Terra though) Signus Thramas Alaxxes? Some of the WS battles during their four-year run Prospero was more of a pyrrhic victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Pretty sure xana was a catastrophic failure Xana was a qualified success with unforeseen and dreadful long-term consequences. 1ncarnadine 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Which significang tactical victories do the Loyalists achieve during the Heresy? Prospero Ultramar (kinda...in the long-run, UM are kept from Terra though) Signus Thramas Alaxxes? Some of the WS battles during their four-year run Why do the Loyalists need to achieve any during the Heresy? Are we all forgetting the fact that the Traitors are chased into the Eye after this? The Scouring is a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Which significang tactical victories do the Loyalists achieve during the Heresy? Prospero Ultramar (kinda...in the long-run, UM are kept from Terra though) Signus Thramas Alaxxes? Some of the WS battles during their four-year run Autek Mor's campaign against traitor resource worlds, including the razing of Bodt The Xana Incursion Tallarn Sotha Pluto Davin and the ending of the Ruinstorm Phall could be counted as a long-term loyalist victory as well. Tallarn wasn't exactly a victory, it was more "stopping the Traitors from on the grave of the planet they just murdered". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 (edited) Which significang tactical victories do the Loyalists achieve during the Heresy? Prospero Ultramar (kinda...in the long-run, UM are kept from Terra though) Signus Thramas Alaxxes? Some of the WS battles during their four-year run Why do the Loyalists need to achieve any during the Heresy? Are we all forgetting the fact that the Traitors are chased into the Eye after this? The Scouring is a thing? i think darth's complaint was more towards the overwhelming victories of chaos in this part of the story don't tally up properly or aren't portrayed in a convincing manner, especially when taken as a whole. the response so far has been that std (now there's an acronym) goes some way to addressing this Edited August 17, 2018 by mc warhammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I for one am waiting for a Scouring series with great anticipation. Red_Shift and Felix Antipodes 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 is that actually happening? i thought bl nixxed that idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 is that actually happening? i thought bl nixxed that idea? It's probably been nixed, I just really want one. mc warhammer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Personally, I think I'd prefer it get done as a Forge World book, rather than another novel series. Maybe 2 or 3 novels at most, but definitely nothing close to what the Heresy series is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 @ Scribe "Why do the Loyalists need to achieve any during the Heresy?" They don't. I'm just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manchu warlord Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Dark Angels destroying Barbarus and Chemos Ohhhh, I really want to read about that. Perhaps, during the Siege books, they could fit scenes of it going back and forth between the battle of Terra and the battles elsewhere in the galaxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I for one am waiting for a Scouring series with great anticipation. After the HH wouldn't that be something of an anti-climax. The traitors slowly get beaten back into the EoT and that is about it. There are some interesting developments that happen at this time such as the fall of Caliban but that is not exactly part of the Scouring. Similarly Corax's disappearance is interesting but is mostly covered in Weregeld (the events leading up to it if not his departure itself). Eskrador could potentially be an interesting story but after PoD, I have pretty much given up hope of BL finding a satisfying conclusion to the Alpharius/Omegon arc they started in Legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 i have hope re alpha/omega. their primarch book will be interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 This topic is about the book "Titan Death", please stay on topic and take other conversations to the appropriate pat of the B&C. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drooling blood Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Tbh It just sounds a awful lot like the beast series. Lets go back to Ullanor 3 emperor fething times. Just to drag it out. I thought BL had managed to escape the ad writing. But apparently not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 The what now? Titan Death is before Horus gathers the Traitors at Ullanor. And he gets them to Ullanor because it is a system that is highly relevant to him - he saved the Emperor, he was declared Warmaster there, he was set apart and above his brothers etc. Horus performing the muster for the final assault on Terra at Ullanor makes sense on so. many. levels. It is a statement of power to his brothers as much as a taunt delivered at his father, telling him "you made me Warmaster". If anything, the way Ullanor is being used as a staging ground for the final push, including by Angron, is reinforcing the significance of the First War for Armageddon, with Angron's invasion, and as The Beast Arises showed, Ullanor is an important system for the Orks, because it once symbolized the height of their civilization and power, and Ghazghkul as prophet obviously wants to bring back that power, so he's attacking Ullanor / Armageddon as a statement as well. It has nothing at all to do with marketing or "advertisements" in particular. Ullanor is an important key system in the Heresy's history, and all three sides were connected to it from the start: The Emperor and Horus had their last hurrah, the Primarchs gathered for the Triumph, after the world was teraformed, the Orks once held it as a jewel of their empire and so on. But again, Ullanor has nothing to do with Titan Death, which is set at Beta-Garmon. And Beta-Garmon has only been referenced for its big, defining battle that has been brewing for years throughout novels and shorts. It is the final wall before Terra. It matters. It has always mattered. It's nothing new to the fluff, either. DukeLeto69, Roomsky and hopkins 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagashnee Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 (edited) Which is why BL planned to skip it! I mean i am glad that it ended up being a book. But the fact that it was thought as skipable shows how 'important' they thought it was. Edited August 18, 2018 by nagashnee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Which is why BL planned to skip it! I mean i am glad that it ended up being a book. But the fact that it was thought as skipable shows how 'important' they thought it was. Because Beta-Garmon was intended to be a FW black book. DarkChaplain 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagashnee Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 (edited) Oh yes. BL would never do a novel on a black book lore ... imagine that...unthinkable. next they will have novels on 40 campaign books... Also the planned titanicus source book is still going ahead as far as i know. Edited August 18, 2018 by nagashnee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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