HH 53: Titan Death by Guy Haley

[RedFurioso]

Only one week left... How high are your expectations? Personally, I think it will be one of the greatest Warhammer books ever. New definition of term 'epic', with thousands of Titans fighting and dying like infantry (yes, Andy Hoare confirmed thousands of Titans involved in the Titandeath).

Edited October 27, 2018 by RedFurioso

[bluntblade]

I'm wondering what there is to really latch on to. We don't really have any Titanica personnel who've been developed in the books since Betrayer. My suspicion is that this will be rather like most instances where cities are levelled in a blockbuster film - and it takes a hell of a director these days for that to really affect me.

[Tymell]

I imagine a book like this could go either way, really: badly done, it risks being just a bland action-fest, but it could also be done well if we get good character work and action that ties into that rather than just done for its own sake.

 

I've enjoyed pretty much everything of Haley's I've read so far, so I'm hopeful, though the last minute nature of this one (if I remember rightly it was originally not going to be done as a novel) does give me some concern too.

[RedFurioso]

We don't really have any Titanica personnel who've been developed in the books since Betrayer.

Well, Guy said there will be two storylines - from Imperial Hunters perspective and from Death Stalkers perspective. Andy Hoare recently dropped some hints about Imperial Hunters - they devoted themself to cult of hunt, Artemis-like cult of hunt, and Artemis was a woman, so they decided to make all Solaria Princeps in 30k females. You can expect a lot of information about traditions and inner workings of these Legions, I suppose.

[Taliesin]

Yeah pretty much agree with you guys 100%.

On the one hand the premise of this book makes it one of the most anticipated books of the year.

That Haley is writing it is a plus.

 

The other side is, thjis could devolve into a bland action fest, and it really is up to Haley to make sure we are invested in what is going on.

It will feature a Titan crew, so plenty of human characters will be there. Still, this is a book about the biggest and most badass war machines going at it , so we should expect some massive showdowns as well, hopefully handled expertly.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Taliesin

[RedFurioso]

Remember when John French wrote Tallarn books, focused on several characters, but the biggest tank battle in the galaxy was barely mentioned? He even admitted that it is difficult to describe such a massive battle. Maybe it's good if Guy will write a book about Titan fights, not silly conversations. After all, it is the Titandeath. World-ending battle of the lords of war and ruin.

[Roomsky]

Remember when John French wrote Tallarn books, focused on several characters, but the biggest tank battle in the galaxy was barely mentioned? He even admitted that it is difficult to describe such a massive battle. Maybe it's good if Guy will write a book about Titan fights, not silly conversations. After all, it is the Titandeath. World-ending battle of the lords of war and ruin.

 

Personally, my fingers are crossed for something closer to Tallarn than what you're describing. The only massive, massive battle I think has been all that engaging in the series thus far from a non-naval perspective was No Know Fear, and I chalk that up more to Abnett's writing ability anything else. Good characters, on the other hand, can make any story worth reading.

 

Guy's action scene dialogue is also really hammy so I'd rather we get less of it.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Roomsky

[bluntblade]

Similar thing to movies, I guess. For every George Miller there's a Michael Bay, and a hundred Bay-alikes who don't even do Bayhem competently.

[b1soul]

The most cinematic/blockbuster HH experience has IMO been Know No Fear. I generally like Haley's writing, but still doubt that could top Abnett

[Burni]

I thought the Titan stuff Hayley did in Plague Wars was good so I’m looking forward to more like that.

[Marshal Loss]

Titandeath Dramatis Personae

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Marshal Loss

[DarkChaplain]

Interesting, so that means that

While we know from Slaves to Darkness that Horus Lupercal takes to the field in person at the end, we will not actually have a Traitor Primarch viewpoint / focus, instead only really featuring Sanguinius and his closest confidants, and Jaghatai. Horus will likely pop up as a surprise, then, if at all.

 

Looks like this should be exciting for Loyalist fans.

[caladancid]

You know I am really excited about this book, but every time I go look at the preorder page and see that it is listed at 34.99 for an ebook I get angry.  I am just hoping that is a misprint that gets worked out in the next couple months.

[Allart01]

You know I am really excited about this book, but every time I go look at the preorder page and see that it is listed at 34.99 for an ebook I get angry.  I am just hoping that is a misprint that gets worked out in the next couple months.

 

I'm pretty sure it is. 

34.99 would be the price for the audio version, methinks...

It would make no sense to almost triplicate their usual pricing just for that book!

Edited November 3, 2018 by The_Bloody

[RedFurioso]

So, how's the book?

[lordhellblade]

Really hope we get some more Riven Hound stuff. 

 

Me too.  The Blackshields are such an interesting, albiet underutilized concept.  

[Taliesin]

Some stuff I picked up from the Titandeath seminar.

 

In that, Haley first gave a background for the Beta Garmon setting which was interesting, emphasizing the scale, it being set on a planetary system etc and how crucial a battle it was. At first BL was going to give this a pass due to scheduling conflicts but then just decided to ask Haley because giving it a pass would have been unjust given its importance to the HH, and it's sheer scale.

 

Other details that I recall is him saying that there will be all sorts of Titan battles.

 

So Titan battles on the ground but also on orbital platforms, people trying to shoot Titans out of the sky as they are trying to land ( Haley noted that this is the best opportunity to deal with a Titan), Titan battles on all sorts of locations and even one vs Space Marines, who are (needless to say)  reinforced by other troops/tanks.

 

Features two Primarchs, The Khan and Sanguinius. This is confirmed in the dramatis personae  ( I bought the book).

 

They arrive and quickly see that it is complete and utter chaos. Sanguinius will try to salvage what he can in terms of materials, valuable assets and help organize the defense ( which is not really possible due to the scale of this battle, which seems to surpass what we have seen before by, it has thousands of Titans present ) and make Horus both pay as much as he can and try to slow him down, as they are all very much aware of the Ultramarines efforts to approach as per Haley.

 

The Khan on the other hand goes out and does his usual thing with fierce attacks to bleed them as much as he can.

 

The two legions he covers are Legio Solaria and Vulpa. Solaria has a cast of all female princeps and use mostly Warhounds, with a Reaver thrown in.

 

Vulpa is an opposite ( and the antagonist) as they mainly use Warlord Titans and are far more individual, trying to become as close as possible to their Titan machine spirit, to be the best at Titan combat in the entire galaxy basically. They speak only "telepathically", do not use human voices, that is seen as a weakness.

 

Sounded very good.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Taliesin

[Indefragable]

@Tallesin: great update/snapshot.

[Silent Observant]

Anybody finish the book that can give us any details on what the Sea of Fire is?

[Atia]

Anybody finish the book that can give us any details on what the Sea of Fire is?

Basically the void version of the Titan Death, for battleships :)

[Burni]

Maybe Sea of Fire will be the setting for Battlefleet Heresy (or the first campaign book).

[Phoebus]

I’m going to echo Roomsky’s concerns, above.

 

When I hear descriptions like “thousands of Titans fighting and dying like infantry,” that worries me. That doesn’t exemplify the magnitude and power of a Titan — a god-machine capable of leveling a city; rather, it reduces them to familiar scale.

 

French’s best writing for Tallarn was intimate and claustrophobic. It gave you a sense of something relatable, something you can experience. By contrast, the final battle may as well have been a description of two hives of ants going at it in a sandbox. The scale is not properly appreciable without the kind of detail normally dedicated to non-fictional military histories (which, having read several, I’m not sure most readers would enjoy); the real drama probably wouldn’t be conveyed from the impersonal action, but by the overall commanders and tacticians staring at the horror they’ve unleashed.

 

So yeah, you’re going to need “silly conversations” for this novel to work, and — humble opinion follows — battle descriptions that reduce Titans to infantry-like formations that perish accordingly would impose a very real ceiling on it, quality-wise.

[Marshal Loss]

Some great points above. I'm interested to see whether pulls Haley it off. Taliesin's summary sounds great though, fingers crossed Haley gives both the villains and good guys a fair showing

[Taliesin]

Phoebus: Understand that concern, but at least in the Titandeath seminar that was not how it was presented.

 

It will have thousands of Titans present because of the enormous scale of it, looks like it is set on multiple planets in that system.

I heard no reference to them dying in the sort of way infantry does it, but rather that many Titans will indeed perish there because they are facing many other Titans.

 

Considering the immense havoc even a single Titan can cause, having thousands of them present ( in insane number to try and consider in one's mind, but very Warhammery), it stands to reason that there will be many casualties. 

[Phoebus]

Absolutely; I wouldn’t have it any other way. I suppose the point I’m trying to make is that neither the number of Titans arrayed nor the casualties they suffer are my real concern. Rather, it’s the way their deaths are depicted that might undermine the novel. After all, let’s face it: the deaths Space Marines suffer at the hands of other Space Marines shouldn’t be anticlimactic either, but that’s generally not the case.