Kill Team Tactica: Deathwatch

[Orpheus108]

Greetings All,

So I've got my DG KT up and and running, and all set to go with them. So next on the list is Death Watch.

I love these guys and I'm looking at getting the Start Collecting box. Is this a good place to start with them, I've looked at the 10 man kill team and kill team cassius, but in cassius there's the termie, bike and raven guard with power claws and the jump pack guy, all of which you can't use.

So I'm really looking at start collecting box, but with what's in it, what's next to that's good to get. I'm looking at some drivers which are just great for scouting and assassination runs.

Thanks guys

Edited September 17, 2019 by Chaplain Dosjetka
Edited title.

[azn.gamer]

Start collecting gives you enough to build 10 models + more if you have spare SM bodies lying around.  KT Cassius has some super cool unique models, but not as many options since they're monopose unless you plan on kit-bashing them like I have if you check out my signature links.  Start collecting is the way to to go b/c you can easily build a full 12 man roster out of it assuming you have some spare bodies.  After that I recommend Easy to Build Reivers b/c they're cheap unless you want all of the options, and most KTs don't include more than 3 unless you plan on building an entire Primaris team mix.

 

I recommend building at least:

• 2 Frag Cannon
• 1 Black Shield with Power Sword / Maul (magnetize)
• 1 Veteran with Bolter & Power Sword
• 1 Infernus Heavy Bolter

At minimum - those 5 will probably be used.  I'm not a fan of heavy thunder hammers, but maybe magnetize one.  Storm Shields are awesome in KT b/c of the 3+ invuln, so having at least 1 more is a good idea; a Watch Sgt with Storm Shield & Xenophase Blade isn't a terrible idea (worst case scenario you declare it a Power Sword).  You'll be able to build 2 combi-weapons.  I'm not a huge fan of meltas in KT, but having one & a plasma may not be the worst idea.  1 Shotgun isn't a terrible idea either, but it's situational.

 

For scouting - Reivers with Grapnel Launchers are practically mandatory.

Edited August 8, 2018 by azn.gamer

[Prot]

I actually pair up my Black Shield with a non-specialist Reiver in my Deathwatch. It workdps very well and keeps things moving forward for your flame type units.

[ashc]

That looks like a good starting variety of models that would be effective in Kill Team. If you can pick up a copy of the new Conquest magazine to get 3 intercessors and some painting supplies for £1.99 then the sergeant makes for a pretty tough team leader.

[Prot]

It’s check in time! How’s everyone doing?

 

I have to ask what’s working for you I’ve been in a slump my last few games. Bloody Orks are fast and Astartes have a good body count. I’m starting to question the validity of a Grenade launcher Demo vet. It’s done zilch for me in a few games. I’m thinking the core is Frag and IHB with a Black Shield /Reiver. That doesn’t leave many points though, and making a discount team doesn’t seem to help a lot.

 

Two other considerations I have are a shotgun vet and a Stalker Bolter vet.

[ashc]

I haven't played any games but on paper I would think the choice is a frag cannon or infernus and probably not both in a single team. Of course on a full command roster knock yourself out (I definitely see where you would want to be able to choose one or the other in different matchups or scenarios).

 

Specialisms are something to be considered too, sniper and Comms look really solid for instance, and combat or zealot on a black shield could be pretty murderous..

[Mr4Minutes]

I like the infernus. It’s cheaper then the frag, and I think the frag is a lot less effective outside of flamer range. I combined mine with a Comms Vet with a stalker for the Comms buff and rival chapter tactic.

 

The shotgun Vet is good for forward ops. Push him up a flank to get a good shooting position. I usually use the xenopurge slug for the ap and extra damage. With hitting mods you’re swapping the -1 for over half range for a -1 to shooting after advancing.

 

Combi plasma can be good, in rapid fire range you’re getting 4 shots, and if you can negate some negative modifiers you’re golden.

 

I’ve been using a zealot black shield with a power sword and bolter. Less survivable without the shield, and vulnerable to being charged first. But I want as much SIA as I can get.

 

I haven’t played a lot of games yet, but this is what I’ve been using so far. I use a bare bones Vet Sgt for my leader, just bolter, but I think I’m going to switch to an intercessor Sgt w/ chainsword for cheap CC and better survivability.

[Mordekiem]

I haven't been able to play much, but I am thinking basic vets with bolters, stalkers and/or power weapon are going to have to do alot of work.  I think SIA upgrades even basic bolters quite a bit.  I think a combi-plasma can be sneaky good at rapid-fire range and still have some longer range options. Frag Cannon, Infernus and Black Shield are going to draw a lot of fire when you take them.  Leader should be fairly cheap.  I prefer a shooty variant.  Stalker rifle allows him to move and shoot 2 SIA each turn at pretty much any range. 

 

That said, with a limit of about 5-6 models on our till teams we need to make good use of our command roster.  We can have a number of loadouts, including a shooty and CC leader and pick the best based on mission and enemy.  You could load up on frags and infernus for one battle and then take a CC squad for the next.  I've always been a fan of TAC lists, but I think in KT I am going to need to use the command roster to full effect.

[ashc]

Intercessor sergeants look like they'll make for a great leader choice.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I don't play deathwatch, but I just played a match against a deathwatch player - I thought the battle report might be interesting or useful to you guys.  Its here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349399-kill-team-tactica-astra-militarum/?p=5159536

 

One thing I have to comment on is that, when you are outnumbered as badly as my opponent was (12 to 5), target priority is huge.  In my game, 2 models (my plasma and melta scions) were responsible for taking out 4 of his guys.  If he had been able to focus them down first, things might well have been different.  But I gave him some hard choices - my grenade launchers were just within short range of him stalker bolter sniper (and therefore hit on a 4+ instead of a 5+) - so he took the surer shot against them.  That might not have been correct.

 

Please don't take this as being hard on my death watch opponent - both of use are very green to killteam (it was my first game, while I think it was his 3rd, but his first with that team).

[Stoic Raptor]

That's really the key to victory in these kinds of games - give your opponent hard choices, with no best answer.  It's the devil you know or the devil you don't.

That's why every time someone talks about a unit and how "I could completely destroy it turn one" I realize they'd be the sort of opponent who doesn't even understand that he's letting all of my other nasties get downfield unmolested.

[Brother Lame]

So for my Kill Team I'm looking at the following (roughly 98 points):

 

Kill Team Stealth is optional for this mission:

 

Watch Sergeant (Leader) - Combi-plasma and Xenophase Blade

Deathwatch Veteran (Comms) - Combi-plasma

Deathwatch Gunner (Sniper) - Infernus Heavy Bolter

Deathwatch Gunner (Heavy) - Infernus Heavy Bolter

Deathwatch Gunner - Frag Cannon

 

Does that look alright to you guys? Obviously it's only five guys but my thinking is that with everyone toting a plasma weapon or heavy weapon, they should all be a threat and all bar the Frag Cannon will be effective at even mid to long range, if I'm up against a team that I don't necessarily want to head right towards. I've not gotten to play any games yet but I'm hoping to have something fairly effective against all comers.

[Mordekiem]

If you got a couple extra points may as well throw in a power weapon in case melee happens.  But I like it for a 5 man team.  Lots of dakka, especially once you close in to flamer/rapidfire range.  I even consider 24 inches to be long range in KT, though.  So I do not think you will feel out ranged at any point.  As always, the weakness is 5 members.  One bad roll and you lose 20% of your force and controlling multiple control points is hard.  All the weapons should spread out the punishment, though.  Great option to include in your command roster.

 

A couple ideas.  Put sniper on the combi-plasma to reroll 1s and give comms to the Infernus.  I really like the sniper/plasma combo.

[Prot]

So for my Kill Team I'm looking at the following (roughly 98 points):

 

Kill Team Stealth is optional for this mission:

 

Watch Sergeant (Leader) - Combi-plasma and Xenophase Blade

Deathwatch Veteran (Comms) - Combi-plasma

Deathwatch Gunner (Sniper) - Infernus Heavy Bolter

Deathwatch Gunner (Heavy) - Infernus Heavy Bolter

Deathwatch Gunner - Frag Cannon

 

Does that look alright to you guys? Obviously it's only five guys but my thinking is that with everyone toting a plasma weapon or heavy weapon, they should all be a threat and all bar the Frag Cannon will be effective at even mid to long range, if I'm up against a team that I don't necessarily want to head right towards. I've not gotten to play any games yet but I'm hoping to have something fairly effective against all comers.

 

I like this team. It's something I may have to try.

The thing is I'm finding close combat to be something that completely owns my Deathwatch teams.

 

I have been on the fence about the grenade launcher. I started out loving it, but it's really gone down hill from there.

 

This lists looks good though, it's a big departure from what I've been playing largely because I am addicted to my Sarge Reiver, and his buddy the Black Shield with a potato masher. Incredible combo that will hit and wound all night, but without multi damage it's still very, very hard to take something out of action if the dice aren't with you.

[klisof]

Has anyone tried out deathwatch intercessor's?

 

I am building a list at the moment and think they may be overcosted as you have to pay at least 4 points for weapons (rifle plus bolt pistol).

 

That's 19 points per guy before any gunner or sgt upgrades Vs 14 points for a veteran with a boltgun. Or 18 points for a veteran gunner with infernus hvy bolter.

 

Veterans get the tactical marine sgt profile so effectively SIA costs 1 point, intercessors' are paying 4 points for it compared to the normal SM intercessor

Edited September 15, 2018 by klisof

[ashc]

I think the intercessor sergeant as a leader looks quite effective - he is tough as old boots, contributes to shooting and can be turned in to a bit of a cp-battery as he levels.

[Panzer]

Well it's a tradeoff. Veterans pack more punch for their points (especially with better special weapon options), but Primaris are more durable against D1 weapons (the additional wound really helps!)

[klisof]

I agree the extra durability of primaris is great, i am planning on including a couple in my command rooster its just that i think the cost of the tradeoff for the extra durability is a bit too high.

 

In a normal marine list the extra durability is paid for in the base cost of the model, so the intercessor is 3 points more than a tactical but basic weapons are built in the base cost, bolt rifles, guns, pistols etc are all 0 points.

 

In the DW list the veteran has the cost of SIA built into the base cost. Instead of doing this for primaris the cost of SAI is built into the weapon cost. But it's paid for each individual weapon so you are paying twice if you have a rifle and a pistol

 

I think a deathwatch intercessor should cost 17 points, not 19. I'm just having a hard time seeing that the extra durability of the primaris is worth 5 points more than a veteran with a bolt gun.

 

For reivers this also means the bolt carbine/heavy bolt pistol load out is more expensive than the heavy bolt pistol/combat blade load out. I don't see that either load out is worth more points than the other.

Both have pros and cons so this just feels a little off to me.

 

Ideally primaris would have had a different base cost for the model from the normal marine list to account for the SIA instead of including the cost in the weapons.

Edited September 15, 2018 by klisof

[Mr4Minutes]

For a leader, I think they are a good option. I prefer a cheap leader(no power weapons or combi weapons ) so l I think they are a more survivable option over a vet. But I do think a standard vet is better for points. I take a more boys then toys approach, so I want 6 bodies on the table, and the standard intercessor is a bit too expensive for that.

[Axineton]

I won my first ever game tonight and had a fortis kill team. The game ended after 5 turns and I only lost one reiver. It was a tie with my opponent and me on 1vp each. We were playing the terror tactics mission and I won due to the victory conditions because my team was 99 points and his were 100 so lowest wins haha!

[Reyner]

What else was in your team?

[Axineton]

What else was in your team?

I had two reivers and three intercessors. Had 1 intercessor as a sarge and also my leader and 1 reiver also a sarge too.

[Orpheus108]

Greetings All,

 

So I've got the start collecting DW box and it together 10 men, and had a game against Eldar. From the game, of which I lost due to very bad dice rolling on my part. (The dice have been microwaved, smashed and thrown out to sea) From that I do wish to get DW 40k army now.

 

Now looking also at getting another start collecting box and some others plus want the commander box when it comes out.

 

I love the black shield with storm shield/power maul, this guy is just awesome to walk in front to take the hits, also the heavy thunder heavy hammer just smashes things.

 

I haven't used the shotgun guy yet, I think he maybe good but will have to have a few games with him to see how he goes and whether or not to make him a specialist or just a veteran. I love the frag cannon so always run with him.

 

As a general rule I try to run the frag cannon and infernus heavy bolter, black shield, a vet with either a bolter or stalker and the leader.

 

I haven't got any reivers yet and I do want to add them.

[Axineton]

So far with my fortis kill team I’ve played 5 games and won 3 lost 2. I’m thinking of expanding with normal deathwatch miniatures. Can you run a mixed team of primaris with normal deathwatch marines?

 

Also love the special ammunition you can fire with these dudes.

[Mordekiem]

So far with my fortis kill team I’ve played 5 games and won 3 lost 2. I’m thinking of expanding with normal deathwatch miniatures. Can you run a mixed team of primaris with normal deathwatch marines?

 

Also love the special ammunition you can fire with these dudes.

Yes, you can use any mix of the marines allowed in your list.  Obviously with the max number per the book.