Expanding AT - Xenos

[Captain Idaho]

Very nice. Be great if GW seems this effort you've put in.

 

Out of intetest; do you think you'll convert anything for the game? You are a talented individual after all.

[apologist]

Now we're starting to see some more general interest in AT, I thought I'd bring this back up for any potential playtesters; including those who missed it earlier on.

 

Updated link to ork Gargant rules

 

You should also check out Grifftofer's excellent Eldar playtest rules, earlier in the thread.

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Apologist

[noigrim]

I can't open the link o-0?

[apologist]

Scrapcode scrubbed - should work now.

[apologist]

Ah-ha! Found it. *Blows dust off Topic*

 

I hope this isn't counted as threadomancy, as I've started work on some playtesting rules, so I can put this chap in the field.

 

 

If you're interested in the Designers' notes and helping to playtest, they're on +Death of a Rubricist+ here:

https://apologentsia.blogspot.com/2023/01/inload-phantom-titan-in-adeptus.html

 

Here's the Terminal:

 

Playtesting Eldar Titans

+ These are additional clarifications on how the game runs, and how certain weapons interact with or effect Holofields. +

• List building – Replace all references to 'Maniple' for 'Conclave'. Eldar do not yet have Strategems. I suggest you playtest without them for the moment.
• Game prep – Replace all references to 'Princeps Senioris' with 'High Steersman [name TBC]'. Determine Missions, Deployment and Battle Field Control as normal. Deploy as normal.
• Strategy Phase – Treat all references to 'Infinity Circuit Disturbed' as Princeps wounded'; treat all references to 'Spiritweave Disturbed' as 'MIU Feedback'.
• Movement Phase – Treat all references to 'Reactor' as 'Plasmaweave'
• Damage Control Phase – apply the following adjustments:
  • 1. Activate Unit (skip for Knight Households) 
  • 2. If Reactor Level is orange roll D6; if red, roll D10 on Reactor Overload Table.
  • 3. Repair Roll with number of dice equal to 'Shaping' 
  • 4. Distribute results as follows: 
    • X+ Repair weapon (see weapon card) 
    • 4+ Reduce reactor level by 1 
    • 6 Repair 1 critical damage 
    • 6 Repair Holofield Burnout  [Holofield Burnout: Holofields are inactive]
• Combat Phase – n.b. Weapons on the 'Shoulders' location are not affected by 'Carapace' restrictions.
  • To Hit Modifiers – treat references to 'Steersman Wounded' as 'Moderati Wounded'.
  • Ignore all reference to Void Shields.
• End Phase – Treat all references to 'Plasmaweave Leak' as 'Reactor Leak'.

• Orders tables changes
  • Emergency Repairs: Treat all references to 'Servitor Clades' as 'Shaping'
  • Shutdown: Replace text with 'Holofields are no longer Active, can only be activated in Damage Control Phase, make normal repair rolls, reduce Plasmaweave level by 2.
• Reactor Overload Table changes
  • Treat all references to Reactor as Plasmaweave.
  • 1–2 suffer S9 hit to body, bypass Holofield 
  • 3–5 Holofield Burnout; if Holofield already burned out, resolve as result 6-8
  • 6–8 suffer D3 S9 hits to body, bypass Holofield 
  • 9–10 Titan destroyed; roll D3+total number of Plasma Track holes in inch for radius, all units suffer D6 hits with Strength = Scale+1, bypassing Void Shields and Holofields.
• Holofields and weapon traits clarifications
  • Attacks with the Bypass, Melee, Psi trait(s) are affected by Holofields as described above. Note that this means Melee attacks cannot make Targeted attacks until the Holofields are nor Active.
  • Units equipped with Holofields are affected by Concussive weapons as normal if hit.
  • Attacks with the Firestorm trait are resolved as normal against Units with Holofields.
  • Attacks with the Shieldbane or Voidbreaker trait(s) have no additional effect against a Unit with Holofields.

 

+++

[schoon]

Love to see Eldar Titan rules.

 

For Holofields, I came up with a hybrid movement-based solution:

1. Movement generates save #
2. Successful hits degrade them
   • 3 hits per field shift for Phantom/Warlock (?)
   • 2 hits per field shift for Revenant 
   • 1 hit per field for Wraithknights
3. -1 modifier for any template weapon
4. Any movement improves them - including involuntary movement
   • 1 shift up for any movement after the movement phase
5. Always has 5 entries, but damage takes away 2+ entry, then 3+, etc.:
   • 6+ for 1/3 normal movement
   • 5+ for 2/3 normal movement
   • 4+ for full normal movement
   • 3+ for boosted movement
   • 2+ for max movement
6. Command Terminal example: 3" (6+), 6" (5+), 8" (4+), 11" (3+), 14" (2+) - reverse this so 2+ takes damage first
   • Number of entries varies with Titan's size and agility
   • Smaller Titans = more
   • Nimble Titans = more

[schoon]

...and instead of Reactor - since I wanted something that would really be different, I came up with the Infinity Circuit

• Infinity Circuit provides a boost, much like a reactor, but different negative effects
• Can be spent by Titan or another in the same Troupe within 8 inches
  • Each Titan can "loan" once per turn
• Each Titan contributes a quantity to its Infinity Circuit
  • Phantom - 7, recharge 2/turn
  • Warlock - 8, recharge 3/turn
  • Revenant - 4, recharge 1/turn
• The Princeps spends as needed, like pushing the reactor
• Low values cause degradation in performance (roll modifier)
• Zero value causes a shut down order
• Command Terminal example: (R), (O) -2, (Y) -1, (Y) -1, (G), (G), (G)
  • Modifier affects ALL dice rolls
• Infinity Circuit (Charge) Order
  • Recharges Infinity Circuit of the Titan by appropriate amount according to Class
  • Can transfer up to the recharge amount to another Titan of the same Troupe

Keep in mind that these are my initial values, and still need playtesting.

[Mandragola]

This is pretty interesting. I think it's a real challenge to create rules for Eldar engines because they ought to be different enough from Imperial stuff, while still feeling like you're playing AT. Reading the contributions above I tend to think that Apologist's version is a bit too much like an Imperial engine, with things like a plasma reactor that (if I understand the lore right) isn't how Eldar stuff works. We don't tend to hear about Eldar stuff overheating and exploding.

 

I really like the idea of an infinity circuit instead, so you could still have a mechanism where you could push at something for bonuses in exchange for a risk of some sort. The risk might be that you'd anger the spirits (perhaps a roll on a table like the machine spirit/awakened entity tables) and ultimately risk that they'd flee altogether. And maybe engines within a maniple would combine their circuits for benefits that would fade as engines were destroyed.

 

I think I'd take some inspiration from both knights and psi-titans. For example, perhaps Eldar engines should do the Psi-titan's special repair power instead of the repair order, allowing them to repair structure by re-growing wraithbone. And perhaps holo fields could work a bit like ion shields, except that you'd give them a save (or perhaps a penalty to be hit) based on the range cross-referenced with the engine's speed, meaning an Eldar engine would be very difficult to hit at range but pretty vulnerable to melee. I think I prefer a hit modifier to a save, particularly because it would make targeted shots harder against them, and I think that should be the case.

 

I think Eldar titans should be far more agile than Imperial ones. I'm not sure I'd limit their turns at all, though I think they should still have fire arcs and facings. They should be somewhat faster too, though if they were too quick it might mess up certain aspects of the game. Too-fast melee engines would be very problematic, though of course we kind of already have that with some traitor builds already.

 

I'd potentially allow Eldar engines to react to enemy charges in some way. Perhaps, if they hadn't already activated in the movement phase, they could use their activation as a reaction to dodge a charge, or to move if something came within 2-3" of them.

[apologist]

Some interesting ideas and mechanics there, thanks for the feedback, ideas and discussion.

 

I go into a bit more depth about why I've made certain design choices on the blog – and a lot of the points above, while very well made, fall under the desire to keep the rules:

• As close to existing mechanics as possible – to make it easy to learn and avoid the 'that looks like complicated homebrew, no chance' reaction.
• As enjoyable for the other player as the Eldar player.
• To minimise book-keeping.

The latter in particular is why the holofields approach I'm using, for example, has a passive ability that's modified by orders, rather than by movement: it means that there's no book-keeping involved. The other player can simply look at the terminal to see how their attacks will be affected, rather than remembering that Phantom A moved a certain distance etc. Just helps to avoid 'feel-bad' moments, confusion, or – worse still – arguments.

 

The agility of Eldar Titans is repeatedly emphasised – but I feel it changes the core concept too much if even the biggest Eldar Titans can just ignore the limitations of the movement and manoeuvre. I do think that there's an argument for smaller Revenants (for example) to have the same Agile rule as Knights, but I think a lot of the appeal of Titanicus, and where the movement phase really shines, is when the Battle Titans move like Naval Cruisers, and there's a sense of weight, power and inevitability to them.

 

That's not to say Phantoms aren't relatively manoeuvrable – after all, this Magnificus scale Titan can run rings around Imperial equivalents – but ultimately it's a multi-storey tall War Engine; it isn't going to be as nimble as an Eldar foot soldier.

 

On the Infinity Circuit mechanic, I do agree – I think the 'plasmaweave' is a bit of an awkward cludge, and there's definitely space to explore it – v003 of my ideas will build that in. I've expanded on these notes in a playtesting article on the blog here. 

 

I'd be very interested in further discussion, ideas (and a name!) for an 'Infinity Circuit bad news table' – i.e. the equivalent of the Reactor Overload table when the crew and Titan become too stressed, if you're feeling generous and have the time :)

Edited February 3, 2023 by apologist

[apologist]

Revised versions of the Terminal and Weapons Cards – I've updated the Holofield text to explain where the damage goes on a Special roll, and altered the damage results to better reflect the new 'Infinity Circuit' that has replaced the 'Plasmaweave' track.

 

 

[Mandragola]

Those are all good points. I think that Eldar are always a tricky proposition for rules in games like AT or BFG. The fluff suggests a level of agility that takes away from some of the mechanics that make the game interesting, particularly around manoeuvres. 

 

Orks would be easier. They'd tend to be a bit more like Imperial engines, perhaps with more structure and capacity to absorb crits before dying but with worse shields and manoeuvres, or something. So they'd have more or less the same qualities but you'd move some numbers up or down.

 

For Eldar the main things that kind of need to be different are having holo fields instead of voids and perhaps this infinity circuit instead of plasma reactor. I'm no good at names I'm afraid. My mind settled on various Error 404-type messages and I can't get it to move on from that.

 

In terms of the actual effects the infinity circuit overloading could have then I think rather than physical damage you could look at loss of control. Effects could include weapons or holo fields becoming unresponsive, turning or perhaps staggering in a random direction. I'm not entirely sure how these effects should be split between the equivalent of machine spirit table (angry spirits maybe) and damage to the system, which could potentially even result in it failing altogether (shattered stones, no spirits, titan is laid low).

[LameBeard]

“Unquiet Spirits” table?

[apologist]

More detail on the +Death of a Rubricist+ blog, but here's the revised Command Terminal and set of weapon cards. The Infinity Circuit has replaced the Plasmaweave, and there's now clarification and tweaks on the various tables, including a 'Wraithtension' table to replace the Reactor Overload table etc.

 

 

[Vogon]

Hi, I'm a little bit late to this topic but these all look pretty good and well thought out rules. Thank you for your efforts. I'd certainty be interested in giving the Eldar Titans a go.

One question is where did you get that amazing looking Phantom? Is it a scratch built? 

Cheers 

Vogon.

 

[malika666]

Troublemaker Games have launched a new Kickstarter. Might come in handy for those who want to do some Orks:
 

Hi all,

 

We have a new Kickstarter on the go, here's our promo video, which if nothing else should make you go, "huh, that was a promo video".

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwFukOo-emw[/youtube]

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/troublemakergames/citycrushers-a-tabletop-wargame

 

Set Contents;

 

    16x City Crusher Robots

    6x Capital Crusher Robots

    16x 40mm diameter round bases (with Health & Energy spinner dials)

    6x 80mm diameter round bases (with Health & Energy spinner dials)

    10x Plastic Modular Scenery Sprues

    3x Ruined Buildings

    6x Tech Tokens

    2x D10 Dice

    An A5 size rulebook (32 pages)

 

 

 

The model sets are also available separately, if you don't want the big boxed game.

 

The contents of the boxed game, shown on a 4x4 table area.

 

Thanks for your interest!

 

[Tastyfish]

These look great, might have to give them a go at some point with my old epic Titans.

 

Only comment I'd make without playing with them yet, is that I don't think they should use Mars/the Imperium's scale classifications. 

These blasphemous alien creations might be rated from from Contemptus to Indignus for the smaller Knight to Warhound sized things, then Infuria to Afrontus and Abominatus  for Reavers and up.

[apologist]

Version 0.8.5 of Bloodsong is available for download and playtest here.

• Rules, weapon cards and terminal for the Warlock Titan.
• Updated Phantom rules based on player feedback.
• Great Gargant rules and weapon cards added and revised.
• Expanded and overhauled the Battlegroup building/general rules to bring them more into line with the Matched Play Guide.

[Sherrypie]

Nice to see the project continue. Might have to ask one of the Epic eldar fellows at the club to try these out one day.

[apologist]

On 9/29/2024 at 2:37 PM, Sherrypie said:

Nice to see the project continue. Might have to ask one of the Epic eldar fellows at the club to try these out one day.

If you do, I’d very much appreciate any feedback (positive or otherwise!)

 

v9 is up, too; with revisions to the Phantom and Warlock armour values, and a visual spritz for the orks.