Rules question - Veteran level 2 tactic "Well drilled"

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Not sure if this should go here or in the rules forum - I figured here as the rules forum may not be familiar with the kill team rules.  If this is the wrong place, if a mod could please move it.

 

So, my veteran specialist with a meltagun just reached level 2, and now has access to the "Well Drilled" tactic.

 

It allows me to chose my veteran at the beginning of the shooting phase, and ready him if he is not in melee.  He then "can shoot in that phase as if they have not moved in the movement phase."

 

Importantly, there is no "normal move" language anywhere in the power.

 

So, it obviously lets my veteran move, and then shoot before he would be able to had he not moved.  However, does the language "as if they had not moved" remove all penalities from movements, for example:

 

- could he advance and then fire the meltagun (an assault weapon) without the normal -1 to hit for doing so?

- could he advance and throw a grenade?

- could he fall back from melee and still shoot?

[Mr4Minutes]

I don’t think he can do anything after falling back, as that usually indicates what he can no longer do, but I think everything else is good to go. No move penalty for heavy weapons, advance and shoot rapid fire, etc. At least that’s my interpretation.

[Panzer]

 

- could he advance and then fire the meltagun (an assault weapon) without the normal -1 to hit for doing so?

- could he advance and throw a grenade?

- could he fall back from melee and still shoot?

 

- yes

- yes

- no, because it's not about the model having moved. It's about the model falling back which it still has done even if you use that tactic. Now if it were a model with FLY keyword and a heavy weapon you could use the Tactic to let it shoot without the penalty for moving after falling back.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I'm not sure I see the distinction between advancing and falling back - both are a specific type of movement with specific consequences - no shooting.

 

 

Falling Back reads: "If a model Falls Back, it cannot Advance, charge, React or be Readied in that phase.  A model that Falls Back also cannot shoot later in that battle round unless it can FLY".

 

Advancing reads:  "A model that Advances cannot charge, React or shoot later in that battle round".

 

Also relevant are the rules for Assault weapons, which read:  "You can choose to shoot with a model with an Assault weapon in the Shooting phase (or React with that model to fire Overwatch) even if it Advanced earlier in that battle round.  If it does so, it can only fire Assault weapons, and you must subtract 1 from any hit rolls [...]"

 

 

In both cases (Falling Back & Advancing), the penalty or consequences are triggered by selecting that type of movement, not the actual movement itself (the only difference being one could conceivably Advance and then not move, perhaps due to not liking the die roll, while to Fall Back you have to move to at least move the model 1" away from enemy models).  So I personally don't see a way to distinguish the two.

 

 

So, in my view, the Tactic:

 

a ) only removes the consequences for moving that would prevent you from Readying; or

 

b ) removes all consequences for moving, which would negate the -1 for Advancing and firing assault as well as being unable to shoot after falling back.

 

 

I'm more inclined to think its the first, though I would certainly prefer the latter.  That said, if you think there is grounds to distinguish advancing from falling back, I'm happy to hear them.

[Panzer]

The difference is that one allowed you to get away from melee and the other simply increased your movement distance.

[MasterDeath]

I basically agree with that the model can advance or move and ignore the penalties. Everything else, like retreat reaction or fallback is not a movement penalty, but an action forbid because of leaving combat. To clarify: Its not the movement that prevents you from shooting, its the leaving combat. Anyway the tactic is awesome as it is. Advance and flank with a Missile launcher!

 

edit: A bit mor nitpicky: The wording "as if they had not moved" implies that model can shoot in the same way, as if it hasnt moved at all that turn. Was the model able to shoot before it fell back? No, it was locked in combat. You could argue for shooting with a pistol, but I do not assume thats what you are looking for.