b1soul Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I was a little bummed that when The Khan’s profile in the BL book came out and by all the indications of the rules and mathhammer, all caveats regarding that in mind, he wouldn’t really come out on top of Fulgrim. The Scars have such a badass reputation, I hope they shine in fiction and maybe the future rules to come. I'm sure Wraight isn't bound by FW rules when writing his WS Siege novel It will be interesting to see how the Khan's innings with Fulgrim compares to that of his brother Guilliman. Dark Imperium made it abundantly clear that Guilliman's battle against Fulgrim was woefully one sided. Unless Fulgrim does some serious levelling up following the siege i would expect the Khan to struggle every bit as much. That would depend on how well Daemon Fulgrim matches up against Guilliman versus against the Khan I think any loyalist Primarch would struggle against Daemon Fulgrim...but varying degrees of struggle JH79 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 It is always hard to judge the relative powers of the Primarchs since the outcome of any fight tends to be driven by the plot of the story. If Primarch X needs to beat Primarch Y, the story will find a more or less (Wolfsbane) plausible way to achieve that outcome.Having said that, I think that Ascension must represent a pretty serious power-up to represent temptation to a being like a Primarch. In-universe, there was some debate over whether Angron or Sanguinius was the best fighter 1-on-1. In "Betrayer", we see Guilliman taking on Angron and at least holding his ground for a while. This implies to me that the pre-ascension Primarchs were on similar power levels (possibly with a few outliers like Magnus and Alpharius/Omegon).As you say, Guilliman's fight against Daemon Fulgrim is virtually a forgone conclusion and Fulgrim gets angry that Guilliman manages to wound him at all. I think that a straight fight between the Khan and Fulgrim would almost always end with the Daemon Primarch victorious. Having said that, "Slaves to Darkness" shows that the Daemon Primarchs are far from undefeatable with planning and strategy. I imagine the Khan would not engage Fulgrim in a straight fight but could find a way outwit or outmanoeuvre him.Of course we have the case of Corax kicking Lorgar's ascended derrier in "Shadows of the Past" but this implies that he has found his own way to level-up without resorting to Daemonhood. JH79 and Taliesin 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Outwitting makes sense for the Khan, yes. Ascension is also a major power-boost, agreed as well. Karhedron and JH79 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonreaper666 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Khan isn't going to fight Fulgrim on his own. White Scar Terminators and Loyalist Titans are needed to bail Khan out once he is almost losing Even Warp-Corax in the 42nd Millenium can't last long against some of the Daemon Primarchs on his own (Lorgar isn't the strongest Daemon Primarch) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarineRaider Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I think it would be a great time for the Legion of the Damned to make a timely appearance and a certain headless Primarch turning the tide against the demented Fulgrim. Kelborn 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuEru Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 (edited) Khan isn't going to fight Fulgrim on his own. White Scar Terminators and Loyalist Titans are needed to bail Khan out once he is almost losing Even Warp-Corax in the 42nd Millenium can't last long against some of the Daemon Primarchs on his own (Lorgar isn't the strongest Daemon Primarch) Give me quotes from books if those are hardfacts or label your headcanons properly. I think it would be a great time for the Legion of the Damned to make a timely appearance and a certain headless Primarch turning the tide against the demented Fulgrim.I like that idea. But make that proto-LotD and Ferrus' Spirit part of the wrestle on the Warp side of Terra, where the Emperor tries to hold back the worst effects of the Warp shenanigans the Traitors are trying. Edited May 9, 2019 by RikuEru Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I don't like the idea of ghost head ferrus leading lotd. Personally i always thought it would be better to see ferrus in a sort of king of mars" scenario. (His head returned to mars then hard wired into a heretical construct that backfires MASSIVELY) Doubt that will ever happen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Even Warp-Corax in the 42nd Millenium can't last long against some of the Daemon Primarchs on his own (Lorgar isn't the strongest Daemon Primarch) He asserts, having no proof whatsoever. But honestly outside of the four cult primarchs, what are we expecting? Undivided doesn't really seem to be a thing any more in terms of daemon princes, so how strong do we think perturabo, omegon and lorgar get? Who's elevating them, what power do they receive? It's ambiguous in every sense. Karhedron and RikuEru 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarineRaider Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 For me what would be great is the Emperor saving the Khan and the Khan knowing his father saved him. Without knowing the timing of the Spaceport attack and when Malcador takes the throne it would just be awesome to me ( and some poetic justice ) if after a long duel Fulgrim goes full demon and starts to win, meanwhile E is freed of the throne and at that moment he senses his son is losing and +duck left+ as Ferrus appears and takes out Fulgrim thus freeing the Khan. The Khan knows in that moment his father saved him and is teleporting to the VS. Ashur 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morovir Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 There's also the fact that we have never seen "warp-Corax" in the 42nd millennium, the one time we have seen him is shortly after the Heresy, before Lorgar enters seclusion. ShadowSwordmaster and Karhedron 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarineRaider Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 There's also the fact that we have never seen "warp-Corax" in the 42nd millennium, the one time we have seen him is shortly after the Heresy, before Lorgar enters seclusion. Seclusion or plain scared that Corax is looking for him. Corax sent Logar into early retirement. Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Even Warp-Corax in the 42nd Millenium can't last long against some of the Daemon Primarchs on his own (Lorgar isn't the strongest Daemon Primarch) He asserts, having no proof whatsoever. But honestly outside of the four cult primarchs, what are we expecting? Undivided doesn't really seem to be a thing any more in terms of daemon princes, so how strong do we think perturabo, omegon and lorgar get? Who's elevating them, what power do they receive? It's ambiguous in every sense. It's Moonreaper, wild assertions is what he does best. As for the non-Cult Daemon Primarchs, it seems that the Heresy novels seem to be expanding the range of what daemons "are" while still keeping them somewhat aligned, if that makes sense. Take the daemon that possessed Volk, creating the first Obliterator. It's not really a daemon that we'd understand in terms of the Daemons codex, it's not a Bloodthirster, or a Great Unclean One, etc. However, it's still somewhat Khornate in its essence, given that it's the warp-incarnation of the First Weapon. I wouldn't be surprised if the "Undivided" Primarchs end up getting similar patrons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagoth Ur Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Even Warp-Corax in the 42nd Millenium can't last long against some of the Daemon Primarchs on his own (Lorgar isn't the strongest Daemon Primarch) The referenced short story is Shadows of the Past from the Sons of the Emperor anthology, but Moonreaper gets several things wrong, as per the usual. 1.) This did not happen in m42, this happened just minutes before Lorgar locked himself in Templum Inficio on Sicarus, from which he supposedly returned only roughly 10 millenia later in m41 (Source: Codex CSM 8th edition), so this must happen sometime around the scouring or shortly afterwards. 2.) Warp-Corax was dominating Lorgar. The whole reason why Lorgar locked himself into the Templum, as we find out in this short story, is in order to flee from Corax (And mind you, Lorgar had already ascended to daemonhood by this point). The short story literally ends with Lorgar locking the door behind him, Corax shouting bloody murder at it, and Marduk standing inbetween all of it with the proverbial soiled breeches after seeing his father getting manhandled like it was Istvann V no. 2: Heretic Bogaloo. Karhedron and Robbienw 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 a newly ascended daemon primarch may be easier to defeat than one who’s used to his new form/had time to improve and explore his powers so khan could be facing a different fulgrim to the one guilliman eventually does JH79 and Felix Antipodes 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Good point MC Also, styles make fights, and perhaps Rob was simply a poor style match-up against snakeman mc warhammer and Karhedron 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Angel Scout Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Think the Khan has a better chance than Guiliman due to his "warp" ability of becoming like the wind...thinking of how he takes down the Orks in Warhawk. This "warp" ability is pretty much what Corax refers to when he's up against Lorgar, along the lines of he now understands what he/they all are and how he is able to use it to his benefit. I think the Khan has this awareness already, not sure from memory if this has been referred to in print but could see this being expanded on during the siege, possibly a kind of I-told-you-so moment between him with Malcador and the Emperor. Alternatively,it could be the Emp or Mal telling the loyalists to tap into the warp to boost themselves after being beaten back to the Gate, which Sanguinius and the Khan do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Next Interview is online: our Brother A D-B himself. Should mean that he's the one right after Chris, making him the fifth author. Currently in phone so I can't share the vid. Marshal Rohr and ShadowSwordmaster 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 May not have to be a generic "fight". khan taking shots at fulgrim or ramming his jet bike into him may be some form of 1 on 1 "duel". The deamon primarchs bug the crap outa me though in terms of sheer power levels. Its like they were all captain america's before sucking a warp lemon the all tier up to Thanos level. Leaving the regular primarchs woefully unprepared....unless there are a load of mjolnirs laying around. (Be they worthy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Except, in slaves to darkness, it has two regular primarchs be extremely prepared and defeat two daemon primarchs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Not saying prep and ability won't give the normie primarchs the edge. Theoretically everything is beatable with planing and resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Lorgar cheated :P Perturabo won fair with his preparations. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Not to go of topic here but what happened between lorgar and angron? *spoiler tag please?* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Not to go of topic here but what happened between lorgar and angron? *spoiler tag please?* If we’re still talking Slaves to Darkness, it was actually Lorgar and Fulgrim, and Perturabo and Angron . The_son_of_Dorn 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarineRaider Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 I just watched the new Siege video with ADB. Ok, I really, really like him. He wanted to kill off Lorgar in a horrible way....they shot him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 (edited) I just watched the new Siege video with ADB. Ok, I really, really like him. He wanted to kill off Lorgar in a horrible way....they shot him down. what. that sounds great any details? i’m not gonna watch the vid Edited May 16, 2019 by mc warhammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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