Annoying disparity in Primaris options

[Boldthreat]

This is one of the issues I do actually have with the Primaris currently. It’s great that they only release rules for miniatures and kits that are available. However it’s frustrating that I cannot give my Intercessor Sgt a chainsword... or a power fist... but that option is available to Blood Angels and Imperial Fists (allegedly) respectfully. That’s frustrating. It comes across as poorly planned. Surely we all will get chainswords and power fists... but it will more than likely be a separate kit to buy.

 

And while I love all Lt releases, i want a generic kit that is always available and I can choose which loadout goes on him. I’m sure there are valid business reasons for this, but it’s frustrating. Thankfully we have EBay, because I’m not buying a box set just to get the LT model I want.

 

I’m just being fussy. Love the Primaris, but getting frustrated with how they are being released to us. I want more and fully realized products. Power Fists and Chainswords and etc should not be locked behind chapter upgrade kits. If they are a thing they should have been in the intercessor kit.

[Marshal Rohr]

Its not just sergeant options. No Veteran Squads or Command Squads kills the two most individualized units in the old codex.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

There is a special edition Primaris Captain with a power fist and plasma pistol... you convert one easily.

[Schlitzaf]

Its not just sergeant options. No Veteran Squads or Command Squads kills the two most individualized units in the old codex.

Company Veterans still exist. I mean they alongside Honor Gaurd need to be allowed to take larger squads. But they still exist

[Spinsanity]

 

Its not just sergeant options. No Veteran Squads or Command Squads kills the two most individualized units in the old codex.

Company Veterans still exist. I mean they alongside Honor Gaurd need to be allowed to take larger squads. But they still exist

That wasn't in question...

Primaris Vets and Primaris HG don't exist.

[Lemondish]

There is a special edition Primaris Captain with a power fist and plasma pistol... you convert one easily.

 

The annoying part isn't the conversion - its the selection of wargear at the list building stage. You aren't given the option to add a plasma pistol or a power fist to a Captain, you're required to take the entire bundle of wargear. You can't go with a power fist and bolt pistol, or power fist and flavour of bolt rifle, or plasma pistol and sword (an option available to a DA lieutenant, but not to the captain). You can't do any of this even though the ability to make such a model exists within the Primaris line. 

 

The inconsistencies don't stop there. Some marine chapters can take sergeants with chainswords, while others cannot. One can take a lieutenant with a plasma pistol, but most cannot. It doesn't impact Deathwatch much because sergeants gain access to both melee options while lieutenants aren't an available unit type. 

 

Despite being an ardent supporter of only including wargear options if they're part of that unit's kit, I believe the 'no model, no kit' philosophy is a bit too strict right now. If a kit exists with certain options, it isn't enough to just provide those options as one 'bundle'. They should be added to a list of available wargear options for that character. I'd rather be able to take either a power sword or a power fist on the captain, swap the bolt pistol for a plasma pistol, or even drop that rifle entirely if I so choose. Its annoying that it does not happen that way. 

 

I definitely don't want kits to go to the opposite extreme, though. I do not like opening things up without restriction for entire units. HQs, unit leaders, and single model units are different, though. I do not want another unit to emulate the DW Kill Team, where 90% of the weapons in the kit are ignored in 40k because the best wargear option for them is a combination of weapons found in two separate kits. But at the same time I don't like the current extreme where wargear options are available only when a single model exists with those specific pieces, and you're locked into that. 

 

I think that's what was meant by inconsistent and annoying.  

[Panzer]

Yeah the lack of Primaris Veterans is striking. I don't think they need to have lots of customizaton options. I'm fine with Veterans with more or less fix loadouts like the rest of the Primaris units. I only really want the HQ options to have more options.

[Guest MistaGav]

 

There is a special edition Primaris Captain with a power fist and plasma pistol... you convert one easily.

 

...

 

I think that's what was meant by inconsistent and annoying.  

 

Yea pretty much this. Instead of the chapter sprues which add a few flimsy looking trinkets I would rather they put the effort into an actual weapons and accessories sprue instead. They are looking at selling the latest Warlord titan sprue from AT separate now and I wish they would look at doing the same here.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m sure it’s all coming down the road.

[Lemondish]

Yeah the lack of Primaris Veterans is striking. I don't think they need to have lots of customizaton options. I'm fine with Veterans with more or less fix loadouts like the rest of the Primaris units. I only really want the HQ options to have more options.

I'd love for the current Primaris limitations to be lifted across all books and forces, and each time they throw in a new model with a new set of wargear options, it gets added to the list for almost everybody, though I can see how that would get iffy with units like Haldor...

 

I imagine the next step for Primaris will be to continue down the same path they are on now. Stick with the Legion concept where every member of the squad carries the same weapon and performs the same role, and keep the units separated by purpose. They'll also likely continue to introduce unique and exclusive weapons for most squads rather than providing access to old stuff. This gives them flexibility when balancing points costs without affecting other units. Case in point - while Intercessors, Reivers, and Hellblasters may currently share the same basic points cost per model, they didn't start out that way, and they all carry unique weapons that are mostly exclusive to those units and those units alone. 

 

A shift to the cost and stats of a plasma incinerator doesn't affect anybody but Hellblasters, unlike a shift to the cost of a plasma gun would. Nobody else uses boltstorm gauntlets, or auto bolters, or bolt rifles etc, unlike with vanilla marines where a boost to the boltgun would cascade across entire armies and units. Primaris are self contained individual units where each body and weapon can be pointed differently and each weapon is a unique part of that unit's kit. Adding Veteran that can pick and choose options across the entire range would undo a big part of that balancing flexibility I feel. 

 

But the squad leaders and HQs are where the customization can happen easily without it causing much of an issue. That's one place they can kind of let their hair down. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Like I said Deathwatch solves all your problems.

[Lemondish]

Like I said Deathwatch solves all your problems.

 

If by solve, you mean ignores half the problem by not even having lieutenants as a unit option, then sure   DW does nothing for the captain issue I mentioned. 

[Panzer]

Like I said Deathwatch solves all your problems.

 

Except that I don't want to play a Deathwatch army. 

[Race Bannon]

Counts-as solves some issues across the board, yet not really with Primaris, I suppose.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

Like I said Deathwatch solves all your problems.

 

If by solve, you mean ignores half the problem by not even having lieutenants as a unit option, then sure   DW does nothing for the captain issue I mentioned. 

 

 

Deathwatch does not need Lts due to Mission Tactics... in fact it is a waste of points and an HQ to take one even if you could .

[Lemondish]

 

 

 

 

Like I said Deathwatch solves all your problems.

If by solve, you mean ignores half the problem by not even having lieutenants as a unit option, then sure DW does nothing for the captain issue I mentioned.

Deathwatch does not need Lts due to Mission Tactics... in fact it is a waste of points and an HQ to take one even if you could .

I feel like you're either accidentally missing my point or you're intentionally trying to be insulting here. I'm not sure if it's a subtle sign you don't agree or if I'm just not making myself clear.

 

I'll try and be as clear as possible: 1) Deathwatch does not fix the arbitrary limitations on wargear options for captains, 2) its frankly worthless to even bring them up in a thread discussing lts when they don't even have them, and 3) the message "just play Deathwatch" is both unhelpful and serves only to rudely dismiss the actual issue.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

People say that Primaris squads each mate is armed identical all the way to the teeth. So like I said you can have a squad of Intercessors and add in some plasma and power fists... and these are really great squads too .

 

I am sure GW will eventually address customization eventually - I would not get bothered about it .

[UnkyHamHam]

People say that Primaris squads each mate is armed identical all the way to the teeth. So like I said you can have a squad of Intercessors and add in some plasma and power fists... and these are really great squads too .

 

I am sure GW will eventually address customization eventually - I would not get bothered about it .

So we should all just sit and wait, and be content?

 

I for one am glad we have a place like this to discuss things, toss out ideas, and sometimes vent.

 

It feels like in your world everything is peachy. That's great. But just don't expect the rest of the world to roll over and conform to your attitude.

 

On topic, I'm kind of hoping the Primaris DO eventually get that level of customization. Also, hoping for some new interesting side arms and power weapons outside the classic wargear.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I don't think Primaris will ever get customization, not to the extent of the old-Marines, or at least not for quite some time. From what we know, it's intended to be that the Primaris are "better", but more static in their equipment and options, compared to the old-Marines, who have worse stats, but can be outfitted as you want them.

 

What we'll probably see is more units being brought out for the Primaris, like a Helfire squad, equipped entirely with Cawl-ified heavy flamers, and new vehicles, etc.

[killersquid]

It's still the players choice. Some folks like to customize their models, some don't. Everyone's hobby is their own. I don't see what the problem is.

 

I don't think it's games workshops responsibility to make people customize their models.

 

Age of Sigmar, has pretty much no unit customization, and that community has fantastic hobbiests who create amazing looking armies. It's all based on what the players want to do.

 

Back when there was no kits for all units/wargear in a book, I saw a lot of folks proxying the options, but it didn't encourage everyone to convert their own.

[Ratherdashing]

The thing about a hobby with a game attached is that even diehard hobbyists will typically not hobby in a way that makes them unable to play the game. It may not be GWs responsibility to make people customize, but in this particular case they are preventing people from customizing, at least when it comes to wargear. For many, daresay most people, the game is half hobby and the hobby is half game. So I neither want to play a game where all my pieces look like everyone else's (game with no hobby) nor to model my figures all nicely and be unable to play because none of my interesting wargear options are legal (hobby with no game).

[Spinsanity]

The thing about a hobby with a game attached is that even diehard hobbyists will typically not hobby in a way that makes them unable to play the game. It may not be GWs responsibility to make people customize, but in this particular case they are preventing people from customizing, at least when it comes to wargear. For many, daresay most people, the game is half hobby and the hobby is half game. So I neither want to play a game where all my pieces look like everyone else's (game with no hobby) nor to model my figures all nicely and be unable to play because none of my interesting wargear options are legal (hobby with no game).

That's basically the one thing keeping me from fleshing out and bringing my Nemesis chapter to life.. They're descended from the remnants of the XIII Legion detroyer cadre, so I'd see them fielding twin-pistol units whenever possible, but since it's no longer an option for almost anyone in the current rendition of the 'dex, I've had to shelve the idea.

[Azekai]

 

The thing about a hobby with a game attached is that even diehard hobbyists will typically not hobby in a way that makes them unable to play the game. It may not be GWs responsibility to make people customize, but in this particular case they are preventing people from customizing, at least when it comes to wargear. For many, daresay most people, the game is half hobby and the hobby is half game. So I neither want to play a game where all my pieces look like everyone else's (game with no hobby) nor to model my figures all nicely and be unable to play because none of my interesting wargear options are legal (hobby with no game).

That's basically the one thing keeping me from fleshing out and bringing my Nemesis chapter to life.. They're descended from the remnants of the XIII Legion detroyer cadre, so I'd see them fielding twin-pistol units whenever possible, but since it's no longer an option for almost anyone in the current rendition of the 'dex, I've had to shelve the idea.

 

Or just tell your regular opponents about it. "Hey, the double pistol guys count as plasma dudes."

Most people love playing with/against well-executed conversions; don't let unimaginative rules-writing hold you back, frater!

[MARK0SIAN]

Guy 1: GW is a model company not a game company!

 

Guy 2: GW is now a game company not a modelling company!

 

Customers: can’t we have a bit of both?

 

Guy 1 & 2: Never!

 

Joking aside though, whilst they may not be actively trying to discourage modelling and conversions, I also don’t think it’s at the top of their minds when they’re writing the rules and designing the kits. We’ve already debated the possible reasons for that but I think we would all agree that the more options a model and kit has, the better it is for the customers and it would be nice if GW gave more weight to this than they are doing currently.

[Xenith]

it is pretty obnoxious to have basically no options

 

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