Ultramarines Support (Or Lack Thereof) from GW

[FlamingDeth]

Apparently Calgary gets to be a Primaris marine now, so there's some UM model support, and also concrete evidence that marines can be turned into Primaris even if they're a bazillion years old.

[Deadass]

Apparently Calgary gets to be a Primaris marine now, so there's some UM model support, and also concrete evidence that marines can be turned into Primaris even if they're a bazillion years old.

Yep.

Can't say that I'm surprised. Can't say that I'm happy either.

[Ishagu]

Happy to see GW giving the Ultras some love, finally.

 

The new Honor Guard and Calgar are absolutely fantastic.

[Sete]

Happy to see GW giving the Ultras some love, finally.

 

The new Honor Guard and Calgar are absolutely fantastic.

"Finnaly"

Just stop.

[Tamiel]

It would be so cool if Ultramarines got some sort of Hoplites unit. These guys were spear and shield guys in ancient greece and fought in a tight shield-wall formation. I'm just imagining them in power armour.



If they made it available to other codex chapters, that would be fine by me also.


EDIT: Whoah, I didn't know the Honor Guard got an update too. These models look like Roman Legionaries.

[Ishagu]

Yes! The new Honour Guard are amazing. I love the clean look but also call backs yo Suzerains and the classic models. Hope they have spicy rules!

[The Emperor's Champion]

You say they dont have a unique unit in the same paragraph that you mention Tyrannic Veteran*   

 

*ok they are now counts as sternguard or tactical marines but once apon a time (4th ed?) they had their own rules

This is the problem. Aside from Special Characters, basically EVERY unique unit the Ultramarines get eventually becomes generic and standard for all Space Marines. Tyrannic War Veterans, Tyranid Hunters, Honor Guard, Ancients, Relic Blades, etc...

 

I'm actually surprised Chronus and Telion haven't been turned into "Tank Commander" and "Scout Commando" or something.

 

The Ultramarines are stuck on a treadmill of gaining and losing uniqueness. Having a crapload of Special Characters is great and all, but we can only ever really use one or two in most armies. Some characters basically never get used.

So while Space Wolves can field a table full of Space Wolf-specific weirdness....Ultramarines can get like 2 models out there that aren't basically just regular Space Marines.

 

The nature of Ultramarines being the reigning blueprint of all Marines, and all Marines essentially being Ultramarines variants.....it's a real double-edged sword.

[Ishagu]

It doesn't have to be this way. Death Guard used to be tougher Marines, now they are varied and divergent.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Problem is UM are -the- codex marines. You are the poster boy of the codex. You start your own codex then every single 1st founding will ask for their own unique codex. This isn't something GW can handle I believe. That's why it has been suggested maybe every 1st founding have a unique unit or two, including UM. You guys are the poster boys and are doomed to be the vanilla of the codex. Except you aren't with more special characters and a Primarch. So now you are just codex marines+1 in comparison. You guys fail to show me how you don't get support compared to the other codex chapters. I mean recently alone you got first Primarch, the only UM specific primaris, and now the first primarized Character. IF have a uniques box with shoulders(?) coming and nothing for any other codex chapter.

 

From my personal experience, when I was choosing my first army was not looking at SW's (too much fur, bad rep, not like Norse at all). I was looking at various chapters, and outside of BA/GK/SW/DA, they were just soulless as they really did seem like UM in different colors. Nothing stood out to me as X chapter being experts at melee, so I resigned myself to SW's.

 

Now Guilliman is rewriting the codex, and if GW is smart they will include unique units. We are starting to see this with the IF getting their own box this holiday. I don't think I have ever seen a codex box that wasn't UM specific in my few years of playing.

 

Again you guys compare to SW but SW are not codex compliant.

[GreyCrow]

Throwing oil on the fire here.

 

Anything Codex compliant is Ultramarines specific. The entire SM codex is Ultramarines driven, originally.

 

It's not Chapters bringing extra unique unit on top of a Battle Company. The Battle Company is on top of the basic Space Marines.

 

Please stop hiding the fact that you want more stuff for your favourite Chapter behind the pretext of 'they are not getting anything'. It's perfectly okay to say 'I want more!' without any kind of other reasoning that itself.

 

No chapter has unique units in the SM codex beyond special characters. It's only DA, BA, SW, GK and DW.

 

Ultramarines getting their own codex? How in the Warp would it be any different than what we have right now?

 

Don't forget, this is a hobby where you can kitbash the units you want and use the rules of the existing units to represent their powers. 

[spessmarine]

No chapter has unique units in the SM codex beyond special characters.

 

Unless of course you are Iron Hands lol.

 

But yeah, UM in terms of characters alone have lots, including 2 unique LoWs albeit one is Open Play only I think, but the other is a freakin' Primarch

The whole Codex thing literally being theirs is a major point. Other chapters are essentially just copies of Ultramarines when you think about it.

[Ishagu]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect GW to make the chapters more unique. Firstly, the are churning out new stuff at a faster rate than ever.

 

We've seen armies like Thousand Sons and Deathguard, who in the past were little more than a colour scheme and a cult unit become divergent, unique and thematic forces.

 

The Ultras aren't just another chapter. You could argue they are THE chapter. Prior to 8th I'd have agreed about keeping things basic, especially as the codex was so bloated. The past doesn't have to apply to the Primaris lines.

[GreyCrow]

That is actually counter flufff to differentiate the Ultramarines beyond their heroes. They are known for logistics and standardization rather than looking for characterfulness.

Guiliman being Lord Commander since his return actually wants more standardization. He's running a empire, after all. Little time to bother with such mundanities as characterfulness.

[Ishagu]

I'm not exiecting unique Intercessor units. It's not unreasonable to expect a few thematic elite units.

[Subtleknife]

Exactly it isnt a long shot to expect each first founding gets a few unique units that are only available to that chapter and its off shoot chapters. Like how 30k legions have unique units.

[Ishagu]

I don't think Ultras are the best or deserve the most attention at all.

 

They are, however, a top 4 Chapter and one of the originals. They should receive as much attention, model releases and unique looking units as any other.

 

Even if you argue against them receiving a divergent unit, there's no argument you can make against them having their own Troop kits like the Blood Angels do, or unique veteran multi part kits that have distinct visual styling. The Ultras have a roman aesthetic that's just as striking as the DA's Knightly theme or the reneissance artistic look of the Blood Angels. In fact when you see a unique Ultras unit, eg the new Honour Guard, they are striking in their appearance.

 

They definitely deserve more than what they've had over the last decade. Deserve is the word, especially after the misplaced negativity from elements of the community who confuse box art for privilege.

[Nova_Dew]

Most of the player base has been not so much anti-ultra's as annoyed with them because GW over supports them in the fiction, they are the centre of all space marine-ness and now the centre of the whole Imperium again, Guilliman has been the leader of the Imperium twice!!! (with big hints from the Vigilus open day, from a member of GW's staff, that the title given to Dante was meaningless, and dun dun dun!!!! an ultramarine is sent to save the day... again)

 

 

Both myself and another person asked why no BA when Dante is regent of imperium nihlus. We were told they can't be everywhere and that the title didn't really mean anything, it's just a vague honorific. 
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351428-vigilus-campaign-books-series/ post by Blindhamster (5th/6th post down)

 

the OP asked about GW's support of the Ultra's, that includes fiction and setting not just the mini's you get to use, which is 70%+ of the entire SM line and you get transfers

[Ishagu]

I get that some chapters are completely ignored, but such is the nature of the beast. There's the big 4 and then there's everyone else. Chosing a more niche chapter comes with both freedom of narrative and expression but also less support.

[Doghouse]

The whole point of the Ultramarines is they set the standard for all other chapters that are codex compliant, the whole point of the chapter's existence is to give uniformity to the Space Marine model range.

 

I understand what you are saying mate I really do, but if you look at the love they have gotten over the last thirty years compared to the other chapters how many have their own Primarch or list of special characters or now even a Primaris Chapter Master, How many have their own novels?

 

Ultramarines are the benchmark for the rest of the Codex compliant chapters, if you start throwing in unique units they lose this status because it goes against who they are. That is their strength, they set the standard and the others follow in their footsteps. The Space Marines codex is their codex, it's just the sheer numbers of chapters using it makes it seem a bit less special to some.

 

The reason other Chapters get different troops options and other toys is more to do with Second edition than anything else. With the game being far less competitive back then with the more recent Rogue Trader influence still around it was a way to sell different flavours of space marines. It's just unfortunate that the release cycle stagnated and we got repeats of the same issues regarding this for the decades to follow. So the whole point of other chapters getting unique units was to differentiate them from the Ultramarine releases that have come before.

 

Personally I don't understand why people don't like them, they are a pillar of the lore of the Imperium and the Astartes but I suspect Matt Ward memes are to blame for that more than anything else.

[Ishagu]

And what about unique looking Troop or veteran kits? I'm not talking about units with unique rules.

 

BA and DA have them. Ultras never did. There is no reason for them not to.

[Subtleknife]

And what about unique looking Troop or veteran kits? I'm not talking about units with unique rules.

 

BA and DA have them. Ultras never did. There is no reason for them not to.

This. Having it bundled like the others do would be nice.

[Blindhamster]

i think calgar is great, as are the honour guard, and i'll be picking up both for my sons ultramarine army!

[GreyCrow]

And what about unique looking Troop or veteran kits? I'm not talking about units with unique rules.

 

BA and DA have them. Ultras never did. There is no reason for them not to.

 

The Codex IS their unique Troops. The Codex IS their way of waging war. 

 

It's their fluff, deal with it.

 

I raised a ticket to the Games Workshop website team because you're clearly having trouble browsing it to find your unique units. While they fix it, here are a few links for you to buy :

- https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Marine-Ultramarines-Primaris-Upgrades-2017

- https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Marine-Marneus-Calgar-and-Honour-Guard

- https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Sternguard-Squad-2018

- https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ultramarines-Tyrannic-War-Veterans

 

All these are Ultramarines looking and specific to the identity of the Chapter. You can't get more blue than that.

 

Rather than being acidic about other Chapters players noting the actual lack of support, it's better for you to accept that Ultramarines = Vanilla.

 

The only codexes having their own looking stuff are BA, DA, SW. If you're looking for non vanilla units, stop moaning and make a Wolves army.

[Doghouse]

And what about unique looking Troop or veteran kits? I'm not talking about units with unique rules.

 

BA and DA have them. Ultras never did. There is no reason for them not to.

 

There is no reason to have them though because we have upgrade sprues now, Ultramarines have access to two of them. Plus the whole nature of generic space marine kits (not including primaris) means anyone can make that unique look for their marine units.

The theme is determined more these days to set models apart but chapter tactics and strategems.

[Nova_Dew]

Ultramarines did have them, but when you dictate how every other chapter looks based on yourself, you don't get to keep that look since you just told everyone else to use your look, it does suck that there isn't bundled kits, but GW likes money and not giving the kits away for 1/4th the price like they do for DA/SW/SW for their biggest selling faction just means they make more of it.

As for parts nearly every kit is Ultramarine-y the Company Command kit has a modified Invictarus Suzerain Squad helmet, the Sternguard kit has a Greco-Roman crest, and how many kits feature the Greco-roman laurels?