"Primarization" of Future Special Characters

[deathspectersgt7]

Rob to his remaining true sons we can remake you bigger stronger than you were . It may kill some of you in the the process but hey for my pa right !!!!! 

[PeteySödes]

I actually like primaris in design but don't like how they play. For all my jokes if they pushed a button this afternoon and allowed you to use primaris models for the current "oldstartes" I'd do it.

 

For now I wait until the range gets fleshed out. I just hope they keep stuff like sicarans and box/contemptor dreads because they are beautiful and fun to play.

[Wispy]

So this may just be me but whats stopping GW from keeping both lines? That way they get money from their bestselling line without pissing off all the old players who want to keep their Marines 1.0 and isn't really interested in Primaris.

 

Can anyone with knowledge on this subject illuminate me? I do work in retail but the bottom end so I don't really understand whats stopping them.

titanium molds have a long life time and they're likely to keep making regular sized marines until those molds break down. once they break down - they have a choice to remake the molds or not.

 

so, like, say the the blood angels death company molds breaks down in 5 years (or 10?)... do they make a new regular sized marine death company sprue or do they do a primarirs death company sprue? given that you're looking at  a large number of years of primaris sinking in, i tend to think they make a primaris version or whatever reflects the status quo of warhammer40k at the time.

[Helias_Tancred]

For me this is the most exciting thing that came out of this Weekender.

Personally besides the 3 BT IC, I'm eager to see the Khan, Seth and Vulkan.

 

Unfortunately this can also mean that the OGmarine range will become legacy.

 

What's your take on this development?

 

We knew it was coming, maybe a little further out but hey?

 

I do think its a clear indicator that the future of the space marine line will be primaris marines. The lore is beginning to match up with this.

 

I like Calgar but ...

 

Games Workshop should have done Kardan Stronos, for multiple reasons. First its not an Ultramarine (no ill will there, great chapter, just do something different), and second the Iron Hands lack any named model. This would have been at the top of my list to fix. Lastly, there's a lot of potential to a very cool model for him, a backpack with a servos arm, etc ...

 

That's my .02.

[Bryan Blaire]

I think we can all admit that with the fluff introduction of an actual process where an already mature Astartes can be implanted with everything they need to become Primaris (possibly beyond just the three organs, since we don’t actually know the process right now - something that had not actually been realized in the fluff before), it’s unlikely that the Heresy - M41.999 Marine (what people are calling Oldstartes, OldMarines, OG Marines except they aren’t, because even the Marines had a fluff change at one point) will be a line destined to continue. I doubt they will receive the Thunder Warriors’ end or Order 66’ing/friendly fire incidents until they are gone. GW will let the line die organically as the molds break down, and during that time, the Primaris will learn from those Marines, and slowly may get some of the flexibility back (because I doubt Guilliman has somehow forgotten the lessons learned from the Red Marked) that the post-Heresy Astartes have and they will likely pick up/begin to exhibit flaws.

 

That path doesn’t change my enjoyment of my previous creations, and if I really wanted to, I could always use them wholly with the Primaris rules if I truly do choose. For me, my Stoneburners will be eternally locked in their wars anyway, and if folks so chose to play some of those ideas/stories with me, we can always use some of the old rules they were originally developed under. They had a good 15 year or so run and I’m still proud of the miniatures that I painted and will continue to paint for them.

 

But the Stoneburners will not expand at this point (which is fine because I already have over a full battle company for them, plus 1st and 2nd Company Support), and I think that’s what has some folks feeling down or angry. The feeling that something you’ve devoted time, energy, and probably a bit of soul to is coming to a close. That close may be 10, heck 15, years in the future, but eventually it will come. There will be mourning, people will feel loss differently at different times, and they deal with it in different ways, but that’s really what it is.

[deathspectersgt7]

I think we can all admit that with the fluff introduction of an actual process where an already mature Astartes can be implanted with everything they need to become Primaris (possibly beyond just the three organs, since we don’t actually know the process right now - something that had not actually been realized in the fluff before), it’s unlikely that the Heresy - M41.999 Marine (what people are calling Oldstartes, OldMarines, OG Marines except they aren’t, because even the Marines had a fluff change at one point) will be a line destined to continue. I doubt they will receive the Thunder Warriors’ end or Order 66’ing/friendly fire incidents until they are gone. GW will let the line die organically as the molds break down, and during that time, the Primaris will learn from those Marines, and slowly may get some of the flexibility back (because I doubt Guilliman has somehow forgotten the lessons learned from the Red Marked) that the post-Heresy Astartes have and they will likely pick up/begin to exhibit flaws.

 

That path doesn’t change my enjoyment of my previous creations, and if I really wanted to, I could always use them wholly with the Primaris rules if I truly do choose. For me, my Stoneburners will be eternally locked in their wars anyway, and if folks so chose to play some of those ideas/stories with me, we can always use some of the old rules they were originally developed under. They had a good 15 year or so run and I’m still proud of the miniatures that I painted and will continue to paint for them.

 

But the Stoneburners will not expand at this point (which is fine because I already have over a full battle company for them, plus 1st and 2nd Company Support), and I think that’s what has some folks feeling down or angry. The feeling that something you’ve devoted time, energy, and probably a bit of soul to is coming to a close. That close may be 10, heck 15, years in the future, but eventually it will come. There will be mourning, people will feel loss differently at different times, and they deal with it in different ways, but that’s really what it is.

Agree whole heartedly but it has become laughable at times.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

"Games Workshop should have done Kardan Stronos, for multiple reasons. First its not an Ultramarine (no ill will there, great chapter, just do something different), and second the Iron Hands lack any named model. This would have been at the top of my list to fix. Lastly, there's a lot of potential to a very cool model for him, a backpack with a servos arm, etc ..."

 

There are a lot of awesomely cool other choices but I am sure they did PriMarneus because he is iconic .

[Sete]

And completly unwanrranted for, since we just had another big ultramarine character coming back:

Guilliman.

 

But moving on, there still is that rumour of a Ultima founding chapter coming to Vigilus with a caracther and chapter tactic.

 

A boxset could drop with the new campaign book...

Or is it just a red herring and calgar and the Ultramarines are present?

But they are busy at Ultramar with DG aren't they?

 

You know, I would not mind to see Emperor Spears there.

They fit the bill somewhat.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

To me it doesn't matter if it is warranted or not. I play Smurfs so I am glad in this instance... but you don't always get the breaks (e.g., eldar) .

[robofish7591]

Iron Hands could definitely use a special character, primarisized Stronos would be pretty cool too.  Even a generic primaris iron father would be awesome.  There is so much cool stuff that could be done with the Iron Hands, they just need GW to show them a little love.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Yeah Iron Hands could have a super bad ass character !

[Helias_Tancred]

I see it as an issue of priority, the Iron Hands are the only chapter not to have any special character (model). It would also have been an opportunity to highlight and bring forth a very ignored iconic chapter, the Iron Hands.

 

It could have been very cool .... "The Imperium has ordered one of their most cold-blooded and efficient astartes chapters to Vigilus to be the hammer of the Emperor's wrath on the xenos, heretic, and mutant .... Kardan Stronos and the entirety of Clan Raukaan are arriving in orbit over Vigilus ready to bring a new energy and wrath to the battle there!"

 

New Kardan Stronos model, some decals, etc ... would definitely be a different approach than what we've been used to.

[Dracos]

 

For the record, some of the reactions, outrage and hyperbole coming out of some forum members is hilarious. Get a grip people.

 

 

Noooooooooo .... opps, lost my grip ;)  Sorry bro, just 20plus years of UM hogging the "Vanilla" spot light and I snapped a second there. UM should just be the same as BA SW and DA. Maybe if UM and Vanilla were separated into two different codexes ?  I'm an old man, Primaris are my last hope ;)

[Xisor]

In a strange fashion, the Iron Hands are the only Chapter of the first nine that are seriously visually distinctive.

 

Like not just in motifs and iconography.

 

The Wolves have their pelts and gewgaws, and the Salamanders/Blood Angels might aesthetically overhaul their armour (what mark of Power Armour is that used by Sanguinary Guard?), but the Iron Hands in principle have reason for not just being visually a bit different, but actually warrant an intensive and genuinely "deviant" approach to what look a Space Marine Chapter should actually have.

 

In that respect, you're aiming low in asking for them to have the first named Primaris Character model.

 

They should be the first new Marine Codex spinoff, a la Thousand Sons and Death Guard.

 

----

 

I'll take Salamanders though!

 

----

 

Also, re: calgar, he's low risk (basically an Aggressor, so almost pre-existing) to high reward - lots of UM interest.

 

Low hanging fruit mean he's an easy and uncontentious one to do, relative to say Berthold Garrag, First Chapter Master of the Void Wyrms of the Ultima-Plus Founding.

[BrotherAtrox]

 

Is the Emperor Spear's novel even about Primaris in any way? 

 

And I simply assumed that by the end of the novel the chapter is tragically destroyed lol

 

 

Well in the preview of the book we have an Emperor's Spear in Mark X armor. And a short story is bundled with the Limited Edition titled "The First Primaris". Those are just the clear-cut relationships. There's pages and pages of speculation in the thread about the book on this forum alone.

[Morovir]

I see it as an issue of priority, the Iron Hands are the only chapter not to have any special character (model). It would also have been an opportunity to highlight and bring forth a very ignored iconic chapter, the Iron Hands.

 

It could have been very cool .... "The Imperium has ordered one of their most cold-blooded and efficient astartes chapters to Vigilus to be the hammer of the Emperor's wrath on the xenos, heretic, and mutant .... Kardan Stronos and the entirety of Clan Raukaan are arriving in orbit over Vigilus ready to bring a new energy and wrath to the battle there!"

 

New Kardan Stronos model, some decals, etc ... would definitely be a different approach than what we've been used to.

 

I doubt that would occur... mainly because Stronos is from Garrsak rather than Raukaan.

[Cryptix]

Don't sanguinary guard use mk8?

[Interrogator Stobz]

Not for long ...

[Blindhamster]

i think sanguinary guard and dante will get armour that looks like the primaris chaplain on their arms and legs, its very similar in design to dante's armour already.

[Captain Idaho]

If Primaris Calgar is anything to go by, they will likely look like a generic Primaris model compared to the original. Seriously has anyone seen what Calgar looks like with the helmet? It looks like a kitbashed Captain with 2 Power Fists.

 

#underwhelmed

[Marshal Reinhard]

By that standard, the original PA calgar (or I guess, the 2nd version) looks like a kitbashed classic marine captain with powerfists if you were to give him a helmet also.

[Brother Christopher]

But he's standing on a little rock... and the backpack is quite unique. So he's not that generic, I guess.

 

I'm wondering about two things. Firstly, it's the model's size. It looks like he's similar to classic dreadnoughts, which seems a bit too much. But then again, this is just my impression. Secondly, how hard would it be to convert a similar-looking Calgar using an Agressor model?

[Irbis]

I think we can all admit that with the fluff introduction of an actual process where an already mature Astartes can be implanted with everything they need to become Primaris (possibly beyond just the three organs, since we don’t actually know the process right now - something that had not actually been realized in the fluff before), it’s unlikely that the Heresy - M41.999 Marine (what people are calling Oldstartes, OldMarines, OG Marines except they aren’t, because even the Marines had a fluff change at one point) will be a line destined to continue. I doubt they will receive the Thunder Warriors’ end or Order 66’ing/friendly fire incidents until they are gone. GW will let the line die organically as the molds break down, and during that time, the Primaris will learn from those Marines, and slowly may get some of the flexibility back (because I doubt Guilliman has somehow forgotten the lessons learned from the Red Marked) that the post-Heresy Astartes have and they will likely pick up/begin to exhibit flaws.

 

That path doesn’t change my enjoyment of my previous creations, and if I really wanted to, I could always use them wholly with the Primaris rules if I truly do choose. For me, my Stoneburners will be eternally locked in their wars anyway, and if folks so chose to play some of those ideas/stories with me, we can always use some of the old rules they were originally developed under. They had a good 15 year or so run and I’m still proud of the miniatures that I painted and will continue to paint for them.

 

But the Stoneburners will not expand at this point (which is fine because I already have over a full battle company for them, plus 1st and 2nd Company Support), and I think that’s what has some folks feeling down or angry. The feeling that something you’ve devoted time, energy, and probably a bit of soul to is coming to a close. That close may be 10, heck 15, years in the future, but eventually it will come. There will be mourning, people will feel loss differently at different times, and they deal with it in different ways, but that’s really what it is.

 

I'd say closer to 15+, the tactical, devastator, assault marine kits are all brand new, the tactical squad for BA and DW are newer still, the Mk 3 and 4 armour boxes too, I just can't see GW throwing away good money they can squeeze out of these. I mean, look at DA veterans kit, it's very old and still in production. What would be the point in discontinuing them? Nah, I can't see doom and gloom FUD having any basis in GW long term plans.

 

As for not expanding, that might be true to some extent (I have no problem with both lines yet I put my plans of buying another SM start collecting box on hold to see if they do a SC for primaris too) but is that any different to how it looked in the past? I mean, look at BA, pre-fifth edition they were just red marines with some upgrade bits, then BA sanguinary guard, death company and tactical squad boxes reset the whole line and made armies made before then look pretty pathetic in comparison. To me, it's pretty much the same thing.

 

Deathwatch made using old metal upgrade kit was just butt ugly and barely more than black SM. Compare it to 2016 DW - the difference is about as big as primaris change, yet I don't see any outrage anywhere. Primaris are what the SM players asked all along, true scale, human-proportioned SM with actual abdomen and things, with rules better befitting SM (now, if only GW writers pushed brake on that stupid D2 proliferation...), if someone told me in 2015 GW will make better models and rules for SM and it will meet with loud minority hating on them anywhere they could I'd ask him on what drugs he is on. But, alas, here we are...

[Captain Idaho]

By that standard, the original PA calgar (or I guess, the 2nd version) looks like a kitbashed classic marine captain with powerfists if you were to give him a helmet also.

Apart from the fact the 2nd edition Calgar is clearly a different model to any of the models at the time in context of detail and pose (let alone the Rogue Trader version)...

 

...the standard I held it to? We're supposed to progress with superior models and detail as time goes by. The Terminator Armour Calgar is superior in pose and detail to this new model. Sure the pose is subjective but the quality of the sculpt isn't.

 

***

 

On that subject - I miss sculpted models. These new CAD designs are basic and a little shallow.

[Blindhamster]

If Primaris Calgar is anything to go by, they will likely look like a generic Primaris model compared to the original. Seriously has anyone seen what Calgar looks like with the helmet? It looks like a kitbashed Captain with 2 Power Fists.

 

#underwhelmed

 

He looks pretty ornate to me, his armour isn't the same design as any current primaris models, it has similarities to gravis, but isn't the same. He has additional detailing dotted around without looking like he is compensating for something. He has a nice looking cloak/cape detail, a fancy looking gorget. He looks about as much like a kitbashed primaris captain as old (2e) calgar looked like a kitbashed (2e) metal captain. Much like many other marine HQ models are just in slightly different poses but otherwise look a lot like their regular counterparts (or at least their veteran counterparts).

 

The metal calgar was pretty distinct from other terminators, but was so covered in bling that he was pretty ugly.

 

That being said, everyone has different tastes of course, I'm just personally very glad for the slightly more understated less ostentatious look primaris have, I was the sort of person that had to buy generic marine kits to mix with stuff like the BA tactical kit because they were too blinged up though.

 

 

...the standard I held it to? We're supposed to progress with superior models and detail as time goes by. The Terminator Armour Calgar is superior in pose and detail to this new model. Sure the pose is subjective but the quality of the sculpt isn't.

 

Disagree, the old sculpt was over the top and horrendously busy. I do agree the pose was a little more interesting a it was totally unique though.