What do you like about Primaris?

[Blindhamster]

I would have prefered that if they had kept the helmet grill like the mk7 as well.  Its iconic.  If they had done that, removed some of the extraneous plating and kneepad rims, had redesigned the overly massive 'ski boot' greaves and feet so they were more streamlined, and had kept the size increase of the models to a sensible level (newer chaos marine type size) I definitely would have been into the normal infantry (Intercessor and Hellbalsters).

 

I don't mind the Repulsor.  I don't love it but I like it.  It could do with having the repulsor plates size refined a bit, but it looks good (especially if you leave off some of the stowage bits).  It fits with the look of the rest of the space marine family of vehicles which is an important thing for me.  I imagine it as a design that was produced in the heresy, but at the time they couldn't get it to work with the hover technology from the custodes vehicles in a tough and reliable mass producable manner, so it was shelved.  Then along came Cawl and made it workable with his repulsor plates.

For me, the repulsor looks pretty great so long as all the extra gubbins are kept to a minimum, so i agree with you there for sure.

 

for the actual marines, i like the logic behind why the mkX looks the way it does, mk4 has always been described as the most advanced, but hardest to produce suit of power armour, so the helm has followed that design, whilst being a touch more curved (which i personally love, the helms are my favourite bit! but then i love mk4). The greaves design pretty clearly takes queues from mk3 with the extra armour on the front, although the random extra plate above the knee is indeed a bit of an oddball. the additional detailing of the muscle bundles on the abdomen and things is pretty great for me, i love that sort of level of detail. the extra plates on the thigh and forearm are a little odd, i suppose they're meant to be nods to stuff like mk3 again, but it's not quite realised "right". The backpacks and shoulderpads and breastplate feel very mk8 in design, as does the detailing at the ankles.

 

I suppose thats why i like mkX so much, it combines 3 of my favourite marks of armour into something new.

 

In terms of sizing, I feel thats pretty subjective, but can see what you mean, I think primaris look about right for how i imagined marines in general, as i think i mentioned recently, the main thing is, i can imagine a person fitting in mkX in a way i've never been able to imagine for other mks.

[Panzer]

MKIV is my favourite helmet design for the regular Marines, not counting special designs like the Grey Knight helmets, but I always disliked the length of the face plate a bit so I'm extremely pleased with the MKX helmet design.

[Ciler]

I'm on the fence on PriMarneus and what he means to the game.

As far as I see it, the argument divides between 3 main points :

• Aesthetics and modelling : Having primaris progressively replace "classic" marines will allow for more "true scale" models, and to offset the size creep that makes a model such as the Emperor's champion looking small and thin compared to a regular trooper. Problem is that in the current status of the range, primaris offer preciously little in terms of conversion opportunities (most if not all HQs are set pieces). Classic bits will only go so far, sure arms are compatible but they can look a bit scrawny.
• Lore and fluff : in it's current status, the primaris lore is weak and makes them look a bit like mary-sues. Uber++ guys that appear to turn the tide and are better than the existing guys in every single aspect. I find it hard to believe that in such a grim world as 40k, some random magos can outdo the Emperor at his own game. Having said that, the primaris lore is actually quite limited at present, and it is very possible that as it develops, we will start to see actual defects with them that'll make them more realistic and interesting characters. On the same topic, primarising some of the named characters seems like a good idea, just as long as one or two refuse. I could see Helbrecht for instance being pig-headed and refusing the upgrade because he's been made by the Emperor and no-one should tamper with that.
• Game and rules : this is where the biggest unknown is for me. If primaris do end up replacing classic marines, will there be a range extension (such as heavy weapons or CC squads), or are marines boxed into a shooty army ? And what does it do to chaos marines, will they remain at A1 W1 depite having grown to the same size ?

[Ishagu]

I think you're missing the finer points of the lore. The Astartes were never the pinnacle of the Emperor's work. In fact, they were very much a cobbled together plan B.

They were fit for purpose and nothing more. It's very much possible that certain aspects can be improved, especially as the research already existed in large parts.

 

In terms if game rules, GW is really doing things right. Unique units, each with unique wargear that is't repeated across the faction - Makes is easier to design models for a specific job and re-balance individual units and weapons without affecting the whole codex. Once they have proper strat support, psychic powers and a few additional units they'll be great.

 

The existing Chaos range are Marines +1, but not Primaris +1 so the two are independent of each other. We've seen how TS and DG have diverged into more unique ranges so duplication is no longer required.

[Marshal Rohr]

They should retroactively add in that older pattern helmets, shoulders, power packs, and other retrofitted pieces of oldmarine armor added to the Mark X suit are Mark IX, creating a catch all designation like the Mark V. This would be useful for converters and modelers who want to mix in a bit of the classic look while providing a solid lore foundation for it. In my mind this would be pretty common in the Imperium Nihilus where chapters might be able to make Primaris Marines, but not equip them with the newer Cawl pattern weapons. Ideally, the Godwin, Umbra, Phobos, and Tigrus bolters would receive the Bolt Carbine rules as well, and Intercessor Squads (maybe give them WD rules as 'Intercessor Nihilus' squads could take Bolt Carbines, Bolt Rifles, Bolt Auto-Rifles, or Stalker Bolt Rifles).

 

Edit: I'm not a rules guy and have been building my Primaris pretty much out of the Box, but I personally would like to mix and match weapons within the Squad in the same way modern Infantry squads have different weapons of similar types. A sergeant with a Carbine, 2 'Grenadiers' with Carbines and Grenade Launchers, 2 Auto-Riflemen, a designated Marksmen with a Stalker Rifles, and 5 Intercessors with standard Rifles or Carbines. I think the rules require all squads to take the same type, but I could be wrong. Haven't researched it yet. I know they can't take Carbines though.

[Robbienw]

I do really like the Mk4 helmet.  But I feel with the Mk10 made the grill plate too narrow and the side tubing too large.  I do like the top part of the helmet, the way it goes over the 'ears' 'though.  I definitely think they should up the number of helmets designs for primaris for more variation

 

Sizing is definitely subjective yeah, that's just my opinion, they feel far too big for me but ymmv.  The only thing that vexes me with the size increase is the fact they increased regular humans as well.  I can see the attraction of upsizing marines so they look imposing next to humans like in the art and fluff, but then if you upsize the normal humans as well, it seems pointless.  For example, a new chaos marine or a primaris looks imposing next to an old cadian model, but then newer humans are much taller.  Like the traitor guardsmen and necromunda orlocks and van saar.  So you have effectively brought the size relationships of marines back to the same as cadians and older marines; normal humans are only slightly shorter than marine infantry to the point were they are probably the size of marines not wearing armour.  And new chaos marines and primaris models only look imposing next to old human models.

[Ishagu]

I'd much rather have units dedicated to a singular purpose, in response to Rohr.

 

As for sizing, human models are looking more correctly scaled, they are't much bigger. I was comparing some Necromunda Van Saar models to Guardsmen last week.

[Lord Marshal]

Intercessors look nice.

 

That's about it.

[Marshal Rohr]

The unit I described is a singular purpose.... That is an infantry rifle squad.

[Cyrox]

I do agree with Rohr on the Bolter loadout

 

In ideal world, the Sgt would get a choice of Bolt Rifle, Auto Bolt Rifle or Stalker

 

Then one model per 5 can swap Bolt Rifle for one of the other two

[Panzer]

I think it's time to remind people again that MkX is not Mk10. Unlike the other armour marks the X actually means 'X'. It's a whole separate thing with its own variations etc.

[Marshal Rohr]

@Cyrox, that's a solid game mechanic to keep balance in focus, good idea!

[Harrowmaster]

I like the intercessor and hellblaster models, mostly due to the MK 4 style helmet, them being suitably imposing also helps. 

[PeteySödes]

I like the designs with the caveat that I hope they are less static pose going forward. Its so much trouble altering those 4-5 stances.

 

Also like the scale but i guess that can be rolled into design.

[Sandlemad]

The stripped-back aesthetic is closer to the Rogue Trader marines than the richly decorated (some would say Flanderised) modern marines.

 

This is the best thing primaris marines brought to 40k. It doesn't mean they're free from poor design choices in modelling - the aggressors are not great and caldersson's spot on about the repulsor being too busy - but their cleaner aesthetic is so, so much better than the worst examples of bling-encrusted sculpts from 4th edition onwards. The second generation lords of the chapter, the sternguard, Marneus Calgar and most SCs, the centurions (who go from 'awful' to 'not great' when they're made more utilitarian), a lot of the Blood Angels and Space Wolves ranges.

 

It's the same breath of fresh air that the earlier FW heresy sculpts offered. Makes the marines more pragmatic, stripped down to fighting weight. You can do gothic as well with a well-placed skull-shrine as with reams of ornamentation.

[Lexington]

I really like the model line, with very few exceptions. The outside-the-box design concept of the Inceptors (heavily-armored jump troops with powerful short-ranged weaponry, rather than the traditional CC beatstick) is one of my favorite bits.

 

The background's unfortunate, but that's just part-and-parcel with the entire Gathering Storm/Dark Imperium, which reads like dopey conceptual fanfiction. A pity that terrible base still informs everything, as GW's writing quality has improved a lot since 8th's introduction.

[Robbienw]

Newer humans, say from about 2015 onwards are noticeably taller than old stuff like cadians.  Put a van saar, orlock, escher (minus heels), a sister of silence, a voidsman, Janus Draik, or one of the straight standing traitor guardsman next to a Cadian or a Scion.  Noticeable difference.  Put them all next to a Primaris, Cadian and Scion feel intimidated, the rest don't.  The rest look like they could fit in Mk10 armour! 

 

What I'm saying is, if they wanted to make a height difference commensurate with art and fluff between marines and humans, they should have kept humans the same height (with better proportions of course, like the FW kreig) or made them slightly shorter.  But they didn't so they obviously didn't intend that, they just wanted to upsize the entire 40k line to a similar degree, and marines still aren't big enough next to new humans if you want them to be like in the art and fluff.

 

40k infantry models have never been in proper scale with one another according to the fluff and art (just like the vehicles aren't) and that appears set to continue, with only the newest marines and oldest human models having an appropriate size relationship.

[Ishagu]

The lower volumes of bling certainly make for a nicer looking army.

 

I love the Termie Calgar but he looks like he has a cathedral on his back lol.

I've actually really gone off the hunched look of old Terminators...

[Deschenus Maximus]

Like the models, hate pretty much everything else about them (mono-function squad, fluff, etc). Also sad the old mouth grill is gone.

 

Ref the Rubicon Primaris: it doesn't really make sense to use it if there is a high risk of death - especially for commanders like Calgar. I mean, why risk decades/centuries of experience and great tactical acumen for a relatively small increase in individual combat prowess? The risks outweigh the benefits. If the point is to limit the quantity of Marines that will get the upgrade, they should make it a relatively safe but very time/resource-intensive instead.

 

EDIT: On bling: I personaly would prefer if they were a bit more blinged up. They are too plain for my taste.

[Ishagu]

What if Calgar chose to do it? Unless RG was there to say no who's gonna stop him?

[Marshal Rohr]

Bling is always going to be personal taste and GW should accommodate both preferences.

[Arkangilos]

They should retroactively add in that older pattern helmets, shoulders, power packs, and other retrofitted pieces of oldmarine armor added to the Mark X suit are Mark IX, creating a catch all designation like the Mark V. This would be useful for converters and modelers who want to mix in a bit of the classic look while providing a solid lore foundation for it. In my mind this would be pretty common in the Imperium Nihilus where chapters might be able to make Primaris Marines, but not equip them with the newer Cawl pattern weapons. Ideally, the Godwin, Umbra, Phobos, and Tigrus bolters would receive the Bolt Carbine rules as well, and Intercessor Squads (maybe give them WD rules as 'Intercessor Nihilus' squads could take Bolt Carbines, Bolt Rifles, Bolt Auto-Rifles, or Stalker Bolt Rifles).

 

Edit: I'm not a rules guy and have been building my Primaris pretty much out of the Box, but I personally would like to mix and match weapons within the Squad in the same way modern Infantry squads have different weapons of similar types. A sergeant with a Carbine, 2 'Grenadiers' with Carbines and Grenade Launchers, 2 Auto-Riflemen, a designated Marksmen with a Stalker Rifles, and 5 Intercessors with standard Rifles or Carbines. I think the rules require all squads to take the same type, but I could be wrong. Haven't researched it yet. I know they can't take Carbines though.

Yeah. I have always thought that every five man team should have an auto bolter and grenadier, largely because it's what we do in the infantry today and it works really well. It also feels right and is smart .

[Deschenus Maximus]

Having Calgar do it no matter what is ok given he's the first, but now that they know it can kill the subject, Azrael, Dante and co. would likely be more reticent to take the plunge.

[Arkangilos]

I disagree. Becoming a space marine in general almost kills them. Battles can kill them before they even land. Teleporting can kill them. It doesn't stop them from any of those.

 

They are weapons that will die,becoming a Primaris will make them stronger at the chance of death, much like becoming a spec marine in the first place.

[Panzer]

I'm with Arkangilos there. None of them would refuse or get discouraged by knowing that it could mean their death. They didn't refuse becoming a Marine in the first place which means certain death for most people and after they've become battle hardened Marines with psycho indoctrination and whatsoever they should have even less reason to refuse such a procedure as long as they can see the benefit in it.