Lemondish Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 I run soup so I really can’t afford to go hog wild. That said quantity has a quality all its own. Cannot agree enough here, so true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr4Minutes Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Putting aside the debate of what Marine point costs should be in 8th edition, I feel vets are in a good spot. They’ve finally had all the tax costs striped from their base cost, and it’s now all in the gear where it should be. Combine that with all the weapon point drops and I think it will really open the door for a lot of options, whether you go pure DW or soup. MSU is cheaper for the CP and I think 10 man kill teams of various load outs are going to get used. I have no idea if this will be enough to put DW into the competitive level, but I am optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 In my mind Deathwatch is currently the most competitive faction for Imperial SM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 In my mind Deathwatch is currently the most competitive faction for Imperial SM. Agreed. SIA is super good, so is Mission Tactics (plus easy access to hit rerolls), and super flexible/variable loadouts. I'm definitely not eyeing up DW... Nope, definitely not >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autek mor Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 In my mind Deathwatch is currently the most competitive faction for Imperial SM. i somewhat agree. the struggle chapters minus perhaps the ultramarines will need soup if they want to get the most out of those new stratagems that should have been standard rules anyway. once chaos marines get their shiny new stratagems then loyalist marines could be right back to where they were before vigilus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 In my mind Deathwatch is currently the most competitive faction for Imperial SM.Agreed. SIA is super good, so is Mission Tactics (plus easy access to hit rerolls), and super flexible/variable loadouts. I'm definitely not eyeing up DW... Nope, definitely not >.> As decent as mission tactics can be, I don't think it's much of a boon. It doesn't affect dedicated transports, for one, and it only applies to a single battlefield role at a time. But...unlike the other marine chapters, we don't have to pay for it like they do with Lieutenants, and we get to spread out more. Seems a fair and compelling trade off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 As decent as mission tactics can be, I don't think it's much of a boon. It doesn't affect dedicated transports, for one, and it only applies to a single battlefield role at a time. But...unlike the other marine chapters, we don't have to pay for it like they do with Lieutenants, and we get to spread out more. Seems a fair and compelling trade off. Yeah, it's the army-wide* and "free" parts that are great. Plus there's the Tome for some MT shenanigans, which is pretty good. It'd definitely not just the #1 Chapter Tactics, but it's perfectly good. *Still not vehicles because...Marines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 MT are great versus horde rerolling 2s to wound with Hellfire rounds... plus this is the official horde edition. It can be manipulated as well, easily with Tome of Ectoclades which I always take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 MT are great versus horde rerolling 2s to wound with Hellfire rounds... plus this is the official horde edition. It can be manipulated as well, easily with Tome of Ectoclades which I always take.Yeah, but wouldn't that just be a factor of SIA's interaction with the standard re-roll 1s to wound buff all marines have? I think SIA is our real chapter tactic. It's likewise not extended to vehicles :( Though it should be...no reason to think storm bolters on dreads and tanks wouldn't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 It’s army wide with MT don’t need a Lt nearby like other SM factions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 It’s army wide with MT don’t need a Lt nearby like other SM factions. Absolutely, with a few key caveats - it isn't army wide as it only applies to Infantry, Bikers, and Dreadnoughts, it applies only to one enemy battlefield role at a time, does not have any effect when targeting transports, does not provide any benefit to DW vehicles, costs a relic slot if you want to change for free once a game, or costs CP otherwise. Aside from that, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 I only play infantry (detachment) so it’s army wide for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 I only play infantry (detachment) so it’s army wide for me. Ah, my apologies. Didn't notice that in your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I don’t post my list since it is soup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucidNinja Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Honest question, why would you run tanks in deathwatch? Corvus I get for fluff and OK a rhino misses out on 1/2 storm bolters of tactics and SIA but what else? Land raiders are still too much of an investment and dreadnoughts seem to be better even without tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Honest question, why would you run tanks in deathwatch? Corvus I get for fluff and OK a rhino misses out on 1/2 storm bolters of tactics and SIA but what else? Land raiders are still too much of an investment and dreadnoughts seem to be better even without tactics Alternative source of anti-armour and mobility, mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Corvus is hawt garbage coz no PotMS... come on Geedubz ! It’ll just end up being frustrating. Rhinos and razorbacks can be dealt with one turn by a lot of armies. I can see the value of the rhino for a tailored list... for example you’re going up against a Daemon bomb... or you want +1 on the roll for first turn (one drop for multiple units). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moostick Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I played a game yesterday, but didn't have time to fine tune anything with CA. I did a quick update on BS and saw I got a 130 pts reduction on my 1k list. So I just simply asked my opponent if it was cool I just say every Veteran had a SS instead (which, if not including the ones who had one already, only amounted to about 20 pts, so I doubt any error could have been that large). I didn't expect it to be that cheesy against his army (Chaos SM). It was bad enough that I felt kind of bad doing that. Granted, horde or high rate of AP 0 shot armies can still rip through us all the same, but we are the bane of every non-psyker/non-horde army now. Seeing his expression go from "YEEEAH" when his Daemon Prince made the charge to "..." over 2 fight phases was kind of disheartening to me too. As nice as 2 pt SS are, I actually think they dropped the ball on that; it's too cheap. They definitely weren't thinking of DW when they did that to SM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 We don’t know why they did it tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr4Minutes Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I played a friendly game against my friends 5 Lemun Russes. I wish I took all the storm shields.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Lol I bet. BattleScribe updated this afternoon btw . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkmilkana Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I would feel conflicted about it, but ultimately SS vets are still quite a bit more squishy per point than guardsmen against pretty much all weapons and also have a glaring weakness against MW and S5 high rate of Fire weapons (say, a punisher LR or even heavy bolters). A demon prince with talons and using smite should also still kill 3+ models a turn, which, for something that’s kinda “countered” by SS vets in meele (2 Damage vs 1 wound, -2 ap vs invuln, S7 vs T4), is quite a lot. I mean, even if the vets had no SS, he would only kill about 1.5 more of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I just had a game vs a Tau opponent I typically have a lot of challenges with. Our games are typically quite close but my wins usually come from racking up points. I used new point values this time and Storm Shields galore.... I couldn't believe the difference. The funny thing is his list got a LOT better because he likes crisis suites and they got a lot better. He had his typicaly dual riptides, and a castle going. This game was still tight but it ended FAR different from our other tangles. Long story short I nearly tabled him except for inconsequential stuff.... normally I've got lots of Maelstrom points and he can't catch up but I'm nearly tabled. This time I had the point lead (but his Crisis Suit boost helped him here a lot). However I still had far more on the table than I'm used to at the end of the game. It was very, very different. Plus, even post CA2, I think Frag Cannons are still a thing. :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherAetherick Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Storm shield spam makes me feel like I'm playing power armour again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr4Minutes Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Apologies for derailment, but will you be doing a batrep on your blog Prot? Or posting your list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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